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Summer 2017 Patch Notes Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    But why shouldn't you be a favorite? It's a game of escalating power and cost, so naturally any advantage gained early on snowballs. If I pop a relic from a hut or the map is designed so that I block off 5-6 cities of land to myself, then I would still be really ahead. It doesn't just apply to warring.

    That's just a symptom of a greater problem. The AI sucks and thus throws the game from turn one. If you have an FFA where players throw the game, it is invariably going to prop another up, sometimes uncontrollably.

    Or more so to the point, if the AI can't play on even ground, how could it ever expect to catch up?
     
  2. AntoineS

    AntoineS Chieftain

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    I read every single post on this thread... great thread honestly, people are giving valuable feedback all over the place.

    The more I read the thread, though, the less I saw enthusiasm for the patch and the more bug reports popped up, like mushrooms.

    I don´t know, correct me if I´m wrong, and I don´t mean to complain, but given that Firaxis had 4 months to come out with this patch, which BTW brings a lot of great things, shouldn´t it come almost bug free? I mean some core issues of the game have not even been touched on (like game pace and general balance issues to spot a few) and this patch makes the game crazy buggy (even the changed font is now reported to potentially be the result of a bug...)

    Don´t they have testers? Don´t they see that all these bugs make them look bad? Is it that hard to fix this basic stuff? These are not rhetorical questions, I am really wondering. If somebody who knows of the gaming industry could tell me, it´d be welcome..

    Because I like the potential of the game and the overall effort firaxis is making but.... to me, it just seems completely unprofessional, unethical and seriously disrespectful to the people who buy their products, to come out with a patch after 4 months and that in a few hours, a mere 11 page thread reports around 10 different bugs already while some other core issues and little inconsistencies haven´t even been adressed (little inconsistencies such as the fact that Norway dislikes civs without a navy even if they have no coastal cities... I don´t know if this has been fixed for instance...)

    Could anybody tell me how Firaxis works? Because being a producer in the audiovisual industry myself (although not the gaming industry)... I could not imagine coming out with something as buggy as this patch is reported to be (note that I haven´t played the game since January and won´t play until December at least because of work, so I am relying on this thread to get my information)
     
    Roald Amundsen likes this.
  3. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    It shouldn't do that for a 50% boost. I know someone already responded to this, but I want to explain the math. :) +50% production does not cut production time by half. To cut it by half, you would need +100% production, i.e. double production. +50% production will cut production time by a third, i.e. 33,33%.

    The math:
    (Production time) = (Cost)/(Production per turn)
    (Production time with modifier) = (Cost)/((Production per turn) * (Multiplication factor from modifier))

    So, if you want to see how much of the original prodution time you are spending, you need to divide (Production time with modifier) by (Production time). If you set up the fractions, you'll see that most factors cancel out, and you are left with:
    (Production ratio) = 1/(Multiplication factor from modifier)

    In the case of a 50% production boost, the multiplier is 1.5, so you end up with 1/1.5, which is 66,67%, or exactly two thirds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
    nzcamel likes this.
  4. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    ? I don't think this is terribly unique to Firaxis. It's pretty endemic to software in general. Take Microsoft for instance. Bill Gates got very rich off of software that has always been famously buggy at the outset, that requires patch after patch that sometimes breaks other things. It's not even just PC software, there's constant stories of poorly secured websites and the like.
     
  5. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    Well, it seems like they are trying to push against that with the warmonger penalties, however, the stream of denouncements doesn't really seem to lead to much actual game play detriments. If the AI was a bit more threatening in it's military action (and aggressive in that respect), it could be a challenge if conquest led to the rest of the AI on the map teaming up and trying to take you out (map size depending, of course!).
     
  6. w3rallmachines

    w3rallmachines Chieftain

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    The AI is waaay too friendly now. Almost to the point where it feels like a bug. Just completed a MP game (me and a friend vs AIs) and on both our continents we were declared friends with all civs up until the end game. I like that civs aren't at your throat from the start, but there has to be some kind of repercussion for not being nice to them... For instance, I had +12 with Alexander, and -11, and he was still friendly with me. That can't be right?
     
  7. Wingednosering

    Wingednosering Prince

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    Just finished my first full game as Nubia (first DLC for me!).

    Turn times seem much faster to me now, although I haven't played for a few months. I see SIGNIFICANTLY faster turn times on my rig. Anybody else experiencing that? I don't think it's just my mind playing tricks on me.

    Also, there are a lot of subtle Ui changes. Aqueducts having little blue highlights on legal hexes is a good example. I think we're seeing a glimpse of the expansion's direction. I dig it.

    When they first announced thw DDE would be getting two ore covs, I wondered if maybe they were taking two expansion civs and pushing their timelines forward. Whether or not that happened, I think it's clear that they began expansion work after Persia/Macedon.

    The UI and diplo changes we're seeing are giving an early glimpse.

    I'm a lead programmer/technical artist in the game industry. Bugs like this could have many causes.

    1) The most likely scenario is that the DLC simply isn't high priority. Since it seems this DLC wasn't originally planned, they may have a very small team on it. That team may also be completely separate from the patch note team. The livestream gave the impression that the scenario was very rigorously tested, but the patch might not have been.

    2) On any project (especially digital ones) it's easy to make one tiny mistake right before launch that completely breaks everything. For all we know, one employee working on the expansion did a git merge into the wrong branch five minutes before release. In my experience, a loger timeline rarely means a more stable release. This is why soon (TM) is a thing. If they don't give a deadline, they leave themselves open to a delay if something goes wrong at the last instant.

    3) Compatability. While Nubia may have been included in their test builds, we know there was a patch (probably developed separately) and cross-platform multiplayer in the works. Any of those could have caused a compatability issue with the others. Merging several different upgrades from multiple workers has always been messy. We have better tools for that these days, but it's still incredibly easy fir a merge to blow up in your face with three self-contained upgrades being worked on separately.

    4) Regression testing is usually automated to ease the tedium of testing jobs and save on costs. Very few automated testers can detect visual bugs though. Those that do probably aren't robust enough for something like a Civ game. This means it could pass every regression test and not detect font changes or scaling.

    5) In the modern age of games, it's nearly impossible to produce something completely bug free. The sad truth is that QA commonly finds every bug, but the devs only have time to fix 99% of them. They will usually prioritize them and leave the ones that are either too difficult to fix, or too minor to be worth the effort. Given the long timeline though, this seems unlikely for this patch.

    I'll leave it at that. I'm even boring myself. It's also important to remember that Firaxis has proven really bad at testing patches in general so far. We got the alert mode that didn't work and a swordsman buff that made no sense and made the generic swordsman stronger than the UUs. I suspect the resources available for testing the free content is very limited.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
    Igorrozas, AntoineS, bbbt and 4 others like this.
  8. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Yea, I think the AI should definitely make good on their threats, a chance of instant war with a refused demand would be cool.

    As is, they just give you bad deals, which I guess is a thing.

    Have not tried yet as CQUI needs to be updated, but that sounds really promising!
     
    nzcamel likes this.
  9. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    Well, they are a year quicker than Civ 5, so we've got that going for us.
     
    WorldWarIV likes this.
  10. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Yes, I was just thinking the other day that City-States need to be able to build *all* districts (even if they focus most of their energies on their speciality district), all projects & even Wonders. I recall that in CiV the City States could "poach" Wonders from the player & the major AI Civs.....and I'd love to see that system return.
     
  11. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    It's not even that which is the biggest issue IMHO. It's that combined with the Eureka/Inspiration system. A great idea, & one I heartily endorse, but they need to adjust the pacing of non-Eureka/Inspiration Techs/Civics accordingly.
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I do not disagree with you, I am just saying having played a peaceful game that it was just harder to expand and playing Military always helped in this game because your settler cost does not increase with every city taken.

    They have made a large amount of change I like but after playing a game I can quite happily say it's so buggy it's like going back 6 months.

    I did enjoy Catherine's spies, that first free spy you do not have to build with a promotion you can choose before starting is great. The first 4 missions it got 4 techs.
     
  13. Reckoner

    Reckoner Chieftain

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    City-states build harbors, and we can't really tell if they are capable of building projects, right?

    Although allowing them to build wonders could be really interesting, I see several major disadvantages:
    1. city-states are not part of the tourism game (yet?), and most of the wonder's bonuses would be irrelevant for them.
    2. the value of every tile in a CS is higher, most of them should be worked to allow further growth.
    3. It would make them an even better target for the major civs.
     
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  14. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    So another patch roles out yet I still see no real reason to reinstall and give civ6 another try.

    I know there are ai and ui mods but that's no reason to not expect the devs to do significantly better in those fields themselves.

    Maybe I'll see what the game is like in some lps with the new patch before I totally write it off for another patch cycle.:hmm:
     
  15. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Emperor

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    Here are some screenshots from my game:

    1. Nubia has unique City Center building model:
    Spoiler Nubia City Center :


    2. Close to my victory, enemy AI shows negative diplo (-3 or -4 in my case)
    Spoiler Diplo effect near victory :


    3. All casus belli can be seen when declaring war; those that do not meet the criteria is dimmed.
    Spoiler Casus belli :


    4. Enemy AI attempts to trade great works more frequently
    Spoiler Trading Great Works :


    5. Barbarian catapult? (I have not seen this before)
    Spoiler Barb catapult :
     
  16. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Good change. Was far too OP.
     
    nzcamel and sonicmyst like this.
  17. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    Damn. Buggy update then... Well, i ll wait for the first hotfix before diving in. Might leave time to get an updated cqui mod as well. Nubia here i come !!!! In a few weeks lol
     
  18. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Yes, but not very often even if coastal. Should be a bit more often, IMO. Plus I assume they should build Aqueducts and Neighborhoods sometimes.

    I agree here. Wouldn't want to see CS building Wonders.
     
  19. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    I'm pretty sure I've seen in the log files that city states are building projects. Though this would be several patches ago.
     
  20. Vandlys

    Vandlys Prince

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    I was hoping for the World Builder to be introduced this time around. Still think it's an amazing patch though.

    I encountered the opposite. Played a duel map (Pericles vs Cathy) and she got fierce very quickly. Won a domination victory in the classical era, maybe she felt threatened by my fleet? But to be honest, she had only seen four Galleys, and only two of them were even remotely close to her borders.
     

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