Summoning Hyborem?

[fuzzy_bunnies]

I noticed this in my last few games... has something been changed with the research priority for Infernal Pact? I haven't had Hyborem summoned in at least the last 3 games and I always had at least 2 evil civs in the game. This past game, I was 2 techs away from Altar VII and realized that AV hadn't even been founded yet.

Every game, I've had the mercurians founded though, FYI.

 

[xienwolf]

There is a python hook in place that anyone (AI) following AV is supposed to be forced to research Infernal Pact if it has not yet been discovered by another player. So either their Research rate really blows, or something went wrong with that code.

 

[euripides]

Hi,
in my games, Hyborem usually pops up shortly after the Veil got founded. In most cases this was because of Sheaim going rather research-crazy. But in my actual game, Hyborem came up around turn 250 in normal speed. Veil was founded around turn 200 by Faeril. Her GNP is rather crappy, so i think she went to to the Infernal Compact asap.
Have fun!
euripides

 

[Annex]

Hmm, in my last game Veil was founded one turn before I founded Order. About where it should IMO, maybe a little late. But otherwise I havent encountered these problems. However i usually make sure the game starts 2/5th good, 2/5 evil and 1/5 neutral.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

hrmm yea, now that I think about it... of the last 3, in 2 the evil civs didn't get very far and were either conquered fairly early or were doviello/illian and didn't research. The last game though, there was definitely a large evil civ and they founded AV and were AV but Hyborem never appeared. Does he maybe not appear if the world is full? It was kind of a tight world though, so maybe there wasn't enough empty space for him to spawn?

 

[Annex]

I remember one game (kind of a while ago) where the map (Pangea) was completely settled. Hyborem was summoned and he and his lackeys just wandered around the map in civs lands he had open borders with. He didnt use his world power and eventually i killed him pretty easily.

Also, if the Sheim are in the game they will more than likely beeline for AV. At least in my experience every recent game Ive played, AV was founded by the Sheim, even with at least three other evil civs doing well.

 

[Sarisin]

Hi,
in my games, Hyborem usually pops up shortly after the Veil got founded. In most cases this was because of Sheaim going rather research-crazy. But in my actual game, Hyborem came up around turn 250 in normal speed. Veil was founded around turn 200 by Faeril. Her GNP is rather crappy, so i think she went to to the Infernal Compact asap.
Have fun!
euripides

I have to agree. Unlike the OP who never sees Hyborem, in my games he always shows up early - long before anyone has had a chance to research Fanaticism and summon Basium.

For example, in my current Epic game AV was founded around turn 200 and Hyborem came at turn 253.

It's been my experience that AV is getting beelined by AI Evil civs while the Order is getting mostly ignored by the AI Good/Neutral civs. I just founded it in turn 333 playing as Decius/Calabim.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Yea, mine has been the opposite. Last couple games Basium has been summoned in the mid 200's (standard speed).

It might just be weird luck, in the 28 or so other games before these latest ones Hyborem was always summoned early and I spend the later part of the game sanctifying hell terrain... thats why I was just wondering if it was something with the new patch or if anyone else experienced this.

 

[Sarisin]

Yea, mine has been the opposite. Last couple games Basium has been summoned in the mid 200's (standard speed).

It might just be weird luck, in the 28 or so other games before these latest ones Hyborem was always summoned early and I spend the later part of the game sanctifying hell terrain... thats why I was just wondering if it was something with the new patch or if anyone else experienced this.

Who is summoning Basium? I would be curious to know what civ is beelining Fanaticism and the Mercurian Gate.

I find that if there is an Evil civ that is fairly high in the points standings, it will beeline AV and summoning Hyborem. This normally leaves out the Clan and Charadon. Most of the time it is those nasty Balseraphs in my games because they always seem to be doing well!

PS. Shut off that damn hell terrain and stop the micromanaging sanctification!

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Who is summoning Basium? I would be curious to know what civ is beelining Fanaticism and the Mercurian Gate.

I find that if there is an Evil civ that is fairly high in the points standings, it will beeline AV and summoning Hyborem. This normally leaves out the Clan and Charadon. Most of the time it is those nasty Balseraphs in my games because they always seem to be doing well!

PS. Shut off that damn hell terrain and stop the micromanaging sanctification!

It was Decius in this last game and the Ljosalfar in the previous game.... I can't really remember the earlier ones specifically.

Oh, and I dunno... I mentally RP when I micro sanctification hehheh though one of the reasons I started playing the Elohim was because I wanted to be sitting in my pristine lands while the others around me rotted away... but I'd been foiled... which is why I noticed that Hyborem hadn't been summoned lately.

 

[Annex]

I dont really know if the other civs beeline for fanaticism. Usually in my games its one of the most advanced civs who arent evil. In my last game Hannah who was following RoK summoned him. I forget which turn it was though.

 

[xaliger]

I got Hyborem summoned by Elohim in mine last game. I eradicated Sheaim as soon as they discovered AV, razing AV capital, but some av spread to Elohim lands, they immediately convert to it and summoned Hyborem.

I dont think, good AI civs should convert to AV at all.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the problem here is that the algorithm with which the AI civs choose a religion is still the same as the original civ, in which religion was basically just for making friends. this means that the AIs will happily convert to a very unflavourful religion if it happens to spread to just one of their cities. this doesn't make sense in FFH, and I really think that adding some kind of "religious preferences" to the leaders would be awesome

 

[TheGreatSteve]

Part of the issue with Hyborem might be the Sheiam. They have a big focus on AV and seem to be the ones to found it in the majority of my games. But they focus on it so much their development is weak. With a stunted AV founder it doesn't spread all that quickly and they can't research Pact themselves for ages.

I see Hyborem and large amounts of AV spread a lot more frequently in games without the Sheiam, where the Bals or someone else will eventually found it, convert, and suddenly it's a powerhouse religion.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's a good call, I think TheGreatSteve has hit the nail right on its head here. Sheaim should have their "lets-found-AV-ASAP" frenzy lowered a bit so that they don't beeline it so bad that it ends up screwing their economy.

 

[Annex]

I have seen that happen. In my last finished game they did founded AV but they stayed at the bottom of the points list until they were destroyed early in the game.

 

[Sarisin]

I got Hyborem summoned by Elohim in mine last game. I eradicated Sheaim as soon as they discovered AV, razing AV capital, but some av spread to Elohim lands, they immediately convert to it and summoned Hyborem.

I dont think, good AI civs should convert to AV at all.

I had this happened and mentioned it in the bug thread.

Perpantach declared war on me. I sent a stack to Coombs View. The turn after they arrived AV was founded there. I razed the city and killed the Savant. They did not have AV in any city. I didn't see the message that they had converted to AV (from FOL, which I founded), but apparently they did.

Only a few turns later they built the Infernal Grimoire AND summoned Hyborem. They did not have a big empire, and this was early in an Epic speed game - about turn 250 or thereabouts.

Apparently, once you found a religion you don't need it in a city to convert. Then, once you convert, no problem building the units, techs, etc. unique to that religion - despite it not being in a single city!

I'm not sure I agree with your last statement, though. Then, you would also have to say that Evil civs cannot convert to The Order, and I sometimes do that. For example, in a recent game I was playing as Evil Calabim, and for some reason I kept popping Great Prophets - I had 6 of them in the hole, as they say. So, I converted to the Order and became a Good civ. I quickly built 5 of the Altars and went about preparing for the 6th, and then the final. I did get an Altar victory with them - I don't think I ever did before with an Evil civ.