Superheroes & representation (split from questions thread)

[SS-18 ICBM]

So where can I get a job as a Thor?

 

[cybrxkhan]

I've just realized, since Thor is owned by Disney, does this mean Thor can become a Disney Princess or something? I'd like to see her (him?) in a frilly pink dress.

 

[bhsup]

since Thor is owned by Disney

 

[cybrxkhan]

Marvel is owned by Disney, right.

 

[bhsup]

Okay so just Marvel's Thor. Not like Disney would try to keep anyone from making some other movie with Thor in it. Right??

 

[cybrxkhan]

Okay so just Marvel's Thor. Not like Disney would try to keep anyone from making some other movie with Thor in it. Right??

Oh no, my dear friend, I'm afraid you severely underestimate the demented lengths of evil that is Disney.

I mean I guess Princess Thor wouldn't be too bad a role model, she'd just be a bit out of place when surrounded by frilly dresses and sparkles and pink and what not.

 

[_random_]

I feel like Thor is pretty solidly in the public domain, but anything that might be considered unique to the Marvel version of the character is going to be guarded jealously.

 

[Angst]

Because i'm interested in being objective when talking about models of society.


I'm 'agitated' and 'provoked' am I? Bit of poisoning the well creeping in? I'm merely disagreeing with you. If you are picturing me going red faced and sweaty at my keyboard, that's probably more indicative of your own bias in this conversation.


I get this a lot with feminists. What they appear to mean is that if you don't agree with them, they need to explain themselves again... and again...and again... as though the problem is that you just don't understand, rather than that you think it's an absurd parody of society with little or not predictive power.

Not sure what you're getting at.

And uh if you don't wish to seem agitated I guess you shouldn't write stuff like 'poisoning the well' and all that.

And objectivity as a archievable thing is a respectable but naive thing to aim for.

No, that's giving to much respect to the methodology of feminist critique. The method is to take absolutely anything, piss about with some rhetoric until you can find anything vaguely negative to say about it connected with women, then claim it's misogyny.

I even read an article that claimed the pill was a misogynistic tool of the patriarchy (this in the Guardian you understand - a respected international news source).

Modern mass-media feminism is utterly meaningless. I read three articles in the Guardian over the course of a couple of months on female sportswomen. The first declared that all sportswomen were just eye candy because all women are is sex objects, right? The next that everyone has to think sportswomen are all lesbians or their brains will explode from cognitive dissonance. The third told us that it was impossible for people to accept a physically capable woman so we mentally 'unsex' all women (even, presumably Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova) in order to watch female sports.

That's not two, but three entirely contradictory ideas backed up only with rhetoric, but it's terrifying how seriously these muppets get taken.

It's easy to point fingers at stupid people saying their methodology is stupid, especially a method as incredibly diverse - and new - as feminism; there is bound to be a lot of idiots, since people are still struggling to get it right at the same time as it being so popular.

 

[brennan]

The new wave of feminists aren't 'struggling to get it right', they are infesting mass media with a perverted worldview.

 

[useless]

The new wave of feminists aren't 'struggling to get it right', they are infesting mass media with a perverted worldview.

[Citation Needed]

And what is this "perverted" world view that you speak off?

 

[Quackers]

Feminism explained:

 

[useless]

Feminism explained:

Wrap it up feminists, some neckbeard on [Certain Website] just "pwned" you with a mega strawman!

Better stop advocating for equal pay, equal treatment under the law, battling misogyny, getting equal representation in politics and careers etc.

 

[Angst]

The new wave of feminists aren't 'struggling to get it right', they are infesting mass media with a perverted worldview.

Perverted. Uh.

Feminism explained:

snip

Glad to know you're citing that page for proof.

I'm not sure it's allowed on CFC though. Its name used to be censored, probably still is.

 

[useless]

I can confirm it is still censored.

 

[brennan]

[Citation Needed]

And what is this "perverted" world view that you speak off?

People who appear on the UK's flagship TV news show telling everyone that they're being harassed by 'agents of the patriarchy' (not true): men (not true), with an agenda to shut up women (not true).

Numerous bloggers and writers to major news outlets who tell us simultaneously that while being mean to women is misogyny, being nice to women is also misogyny.

Women who give TED talks to lie about games and gamers and claim that women and feminists are targetted by online trolls more than the rest of us are (not true).

The notion of 'rape culture' - the blatantly fatuous assertion that rape is acceptable behaviour instead of one of the most serious and vilified offences in our legal systems.

'Rape myths' - or as they should be called: 'rape myth, myths' - a serious of clearly incorrect statements presented as if some significant proportion of society actually believes such drivel and therefore men all need to be educated so that they don't go around raping young women for wearing low-cut tops.

People who claim that MRAs are rabid patriarchal nutters, instead of (in the main part) guys concerned about being estranged from their children.

Anyone who says things like 'the world is a dangerous place for women' - usually while presenting extremely dodgy statistics and completely ignoring the fact that there isn't a culture on Earth where it's safer to be a man than a woman.

Women who call for the chemical castration of men and abortions of male foetuses until men are only 5-10% of the global population.

Bonkers.

Perverted. Uh.

Riiight. It's all about 'equality' and I should just agree with it. I should just shut up when some nutcase tells me I live in a 'rape culture', instead of pointing out that they are an obvious loon, society is run all for the benefit of men - that's why the people doing the most dangerous jobs are men, the homeless population is almost exclusively male and men have been the majority victims of war and violence since time immemorial. Right, gotcha.

citing that page for proof.

Er, yeah, he's 'citing' it as 'proof'.

 

[useless]

Shock as man fails to understand why women might consider feminism

 

[Angst]

Wow you're prissy.

Riiight. It's all about 'equality' and I should just agree with it. I should just shut up when some nutcase tells me I live in a 'rape culture', instead of pointing out that they are an obvious loon, society is run all for the benefit of men - that's why the people doing the most dangerous jobs are men, the homeless population is almost exclusively male and men have been the majority victims of war and violence since time immemorial. Right, gotcha.

Perhaps it's a much better idea to take it easy and realize that the concept of 'rape culture' is nowhere near shared by all feminists.

Er, yeah, he's 'citing' it as 'proof'.

I mean to take him seriously when he posts stuff, even if what he posts is ridiculous.

 

[brennan]

Shock as pro-feminist refuses to engage on any issues actually raised and resorts to elementary sexism with no apparent irony.

 

[useless]

How can someone "engage" another on an issue when you literally believe this:

Women who call for the chemical castration of men and abortions of male foetuses until men are only 5-10% of the global population.

It's literal insanity, what next you're going to tell us all these feminists are lesbian, man-haters? You've done the latter, I merely await the former.

Women who give TED talks to lie about games and gamers and claim that women and feminists are targetted by online trolls more than the rest of us are (not true).

Yeah because it's not like that didn't happen with Mary Beard or countless other women.

I guess it must not exist then

 

[brennan]

I haven't said all feminists believe that. Please don;t throw such an obvious strawman at me.

I discussed online trolling a few days ago. Nobody rebutted a single thing I said. Death threats are common online, feminist claims of being singled out are risible:

Thunderf00t was mentioned earlier - he had issues with a muslim online who posted quite threatening videos. I know other people who post in the 'YouTube atheist' community who are male and report death threats from creationists and similar. I've had people over the years on this site saying they're going to come and shoot me or that I deserve to die for various reasons.

Again: a magazine that criticised One Direction received a flood of death threats. When some guy fouled one of the little brats at a charity football game he recieved death threats.

The guy who wrote the game Fez famously received absolutely vile abuse when he was blogging about plabnned changes in Fez 2.

In fact lots of game designers report receiving death threats (note also the sexual element 'sell your body to a convicted rapist/necrophiliac' ). Hell, even the people writing that article about game designers receiving death threats say that they, the online journalists, receive death threats.

It's not in question that these are extreme in terms of real world experience. But they are remarkably common online and so it seems fairly obvious that the claim made by various feminists that they are being singled out seems obviously bogus.

We have evidence from an actual court case in the UK (the bank note saga). The people targeting the feminists were straightforwardly losers, not 'patriarchal agents trying to shut women up'. One of the two people convicted was a woman.