Superheroes & representation (split from questions thread)

[Zack]

So it's okay for you to categorize all feminists as rabid man-haters, but no one's allowed to criticize MRA?

 

[useless]

Your points might be valid if i ever denied there were threats against men.

 

[brennan]

So it's okay for you to categorize all feminists as rabid man-haters, but no one's allowed to criticize MRA?

...and precisely where did I do that? Drop the silly strawmen please.

Your points might be valid if i ever denied there were threats against men.

Rubbish. My point would be valid if it undermined claims by feminists to suffer from more and worse abuse than others. Which it does. What you've said is absolutely irrelevant.

 

[useless]

Your enmity seems to be directed at the Stereotypical, dare i say even cartoonish villain like, feminists rather than say the average feminist or feminism as a whole.

 

[Zack]

Your enmity seems to be directed at the Stereotypical, dare i say even cartoonish villain like, feminists rather than say the average feminist or feminism as a whole.

That's a ridiculous strawman, useless! God!

 

[brennan]

I've raised issues that are rife in online feminism, like their view of so called 'rape culture', ideas which have a good deal of traction in the mainstream media. If you want to claim i'm only talking about extremist stereotypes then you're just not being honest about this - national newspapers are running articles on this garbage.

 

[cardgame]

nafalt nafalt nafalt

*ignores influential feminists who are like that*

 

[useless]

nafalt nafalt nafalt

*ignores influential feminists who are like that*

If we're going to go down that route, then maybe one should bring up Paul Elam, an extremely influential MRA who espoused beating up women in an article called, and i quote:

"If You See Jezebel in the Road, Run the [Expletive] Down"

I guess the first defence will be "oh but he's only saying to beat up women in self-defence" so apparently two wrongs make a right now.

Or let's look at an article where he discusses rape: https://archive.today/eIlgf

...

Do women ask for it?

I don’t mean that in the sense that they are literally asking men to rape them (though this clearly does happen outside the context of this post). What I mean is, do women who dress and act provocatively; who taunt men sexually, toying with their libidos for personal power and gain, etc., have the same type of responsibility for what happens to them as, say, someone who parks their car in a bad neighborhood with the keys in the ignition and leaves it unlocked with the motor running?

Obviously, we still blame the car thief for the actual theft, but don’t most of us turn to the person who owned the car and at least want to ask, “What the [Expletive] were you thinking?”

Wouldn’t the insurance company take a dim view of paying a claim in the midst of such stupid irresponsibility?

We should, though, also remember that at least the guy who set himself up to have his car jacked wasn’t doing anything sinister to begin with. Stupid, but not sinister. We can’t say the same for some of these women.

In that light, I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks, playing on their sexual desires so they can get faced on the beta dole; paying their bar tab with the [Expletive] pass. And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape

But are these women asking to get raped?

In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

They are freaking begging for it.

Damn near demanding it.

Elam is a monster, he's literally justfying rape with the belief that women "[Are] demanding it." and bear in mind, Paul Elam isn't some fringe-nut excluded from the rest of the MRA community and relegated to obscurity, he runs one of the most vocal and influential MRA websites, a voice for men.

He's an absolute scumbag and he's the very definition of "rape culture" that certain people in this thread like to deny even exists. But i await whatever justification or excuses will be made to ignore what Elam said.

 

[cardgame]

Paul Elam is a monster, I agree. He and others who can't see what you and I see is 80% of the reason why I subscribed from /MR and will not label myself as one.

However, assuming he means the website Jezebel, I can't fault him for that, because that website is quite plainly misandric.

 

[useless]

Given his article and his past history of misogyny, i presume he means both the website and the women he views as "Jezebels"

 

[Mouthwash]

That's verging on a conspiracy theory.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19549_5-old-timey-prejudices-that-still-show-up-in-every-movie.html

 

[brennan]

If we're going to go down that route, then maybe one should bring up Paul Elam...

Rofl, and you criticised me for hating a minority stereotype, since when is Paul Elam 'extremely influential'? The Men's rights movement is one of the most marginalised there is.

espoused beating up women in an article called, and i quote:

"If You See Jezebel in the Road, Run the [Expletive] Down"

Did he really, or could that article be satirical?

Why, yes, yes, it could.

This article, originally published on October 22, 2010, is a satirical response...

Could it be a parody of a very similar article that was written by a feminist?

Well blow me if it is.

Have You Ever Beat Up A Boyfriend? Cause, Uh, We Have

Who are the 'monsters' here, the guy writing an explicitly satirical response piece or the women who seriously write to celebrate acts of violence against the men in their life?

 

[useless]

No you see it's okay to espouse violence against women if it's a joke man


Also i noticed you completely ignored the other part of my post; the one where Elam justified rape.

The Jezebel article is clearly not advocating violence against men, it brings up the fact that men, as victims of domestic violence, shouldn't be ignored.

Psychiatry News has a piece out this month about how men shouldn't be overlooked as victims of domestic violence, saying that:

...

So basically that means that girls are beating up their BFs and husbands and the dudes aren't fighting back. With Amy Winehouse busting open a can of whupass on her husband last week, we decided to conduct an informal survey of the Jezebels to see who's gotten violent with their men. After reviewing the answers, let's just say that it'd be wise to never ever screw with us.

One Jezebel got into it with a dude while they were breaking up, while another Jez went nuts on her guy and began violently shoving him. One of your editors heard her boyfriend flirting on the phone with another girl, so she slapped the phone out of his hands and hit him in the face and neck... "partially open handed." Another editor slapped a guy when "he told me he thought he had breast cancer." (Okay, that one made us laugh really hard.) And lastly, one Jez punched a steady in the face and broke his glasses. He had discovered a sex story she was writing about another dude on her laptop, so he picked it up and threw it. And that's when she socked him. He was, uh, totally asking for it.

Beyond the mocking, sarcastic tone where does it advocate literal violence against men? Compare that with Elam's comments about rape, where he says and i quote:

"But are these women asking to get raped?

In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

They are freaking begging for it.

Damn near demanding it."

Now who is the real monster here? I've yet to see you condemn Elam and for the record, i condemn ALL domestic violence, be it perpetrated by man or woman.

 

[brennan]

The Jezebel article is clearly not advocating violence against men

No, it's documenting actual, real violence against men. In a distinctly gloating tone.

you completely ignored the other part of my post; the one where Elam justified rape

You've completely ignored the word 'satirical'.

I've yet to see you condemn Elam

I'll condemn him when you prove to me that he really does advocate violence to women and justifies rape. A satirical piece proves no such thing.

I tkae it you condemn the staff at Jezebel, who admit to committing real acts of violence?

 

[useless]

Paul Elam's seperate article about rape is different from the one where he "jokes" about beating women.

All i am asking for you to do is condemn a man who believes that women are literally begging to raped.

And of course, i condemn all forms of violence.

 

[brennan]

All i am asking for you to do is condemn a man who believes that women are literally begging to raped.

I think you have to take obvious hyperbole entirely at face value to conclude that is really his opinion, which would I think be foolish.

So we are talking here about a man who writes some rather obnoxious hyperbole and possibly has some nasty opinions on the one hand and some women who actually hit men and appear to relish the fact on the other.

Which do you think is more deserving of contemnation?