BlackBetsy
Emperor
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- Feb 15, 2005
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After playing high levels I get supreme joy out of .... ignoring them. Not having to think about them is the best aspect.
Superslug Vs Sid
- Thread starter superslug
- Start date
Deity 20K victory is mine.
It should be #4 on the huge map table after next update. I might do a write up of it at some point, but for now my brain is burned out. 168 hours of game play, hit with 7 nukes, and burned down five AI capitals to stop space ships.
I earned this one.
It should be #4 on the huge map table after next update. I might do a write up of it at some point, but for now my brain is burned out. 168 hours of game play, hit with 7 nukes, and burned down five AI capitals to stop space ships.
I earned this one.
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Wow, that sounds like quite the game! I'd be interested to hear more about it, but you deserve a break after that!
BlackBetsy
Emperor
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- Feb 15, 2005
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How do you finish out these Huge map games so fast? My Huge DG Milk game is measured in hours per turn. I was home sick yesterday and played for 13 hours for 10 turns.
I keep trying to fortify things around my house so I don't have to deal with them.
The Pregame Process
My eventual goal is Sid, and I've spent the last four years on Emperor and Demigod with varying levels of success. I decided I was good enough to tackle Deity.
I didn't spend a lot of time debating what map size. I've always loved long games on huge maps. The slower contacts and tech pace help make higher difficulties more manageable. Traditionally, I prefer pangaea, and I find archipelago doesn't really suit my playstyle all that well. I chose continents.
My civ was the Iroquois, and I used SirPleb's AI set. Copying his GLIB tactic is a copycat cornerstone of my approach to the game.
The victory condition was not an immediate decision, but it did happen by process of elimination:
-Spaceship: I don't do this one so much in Civ3 since it was the default condition of 1 and 2.
-Domination: At first, I enjoyed the addition of this condition since it took some of the grind out of a total conquest, but it's always felt like it falls a little short of a concrete victory. You're granted a win just because you get so OP.
-100K Culture: Very grindy. You also need to be bloody at higher levels, considering the 2x nearest culture rule. Military conquest is not a strong suit for me on higher levels.
-Diplomatic: A popularity contest. I've had to default to it in previous games when my culture city got nuked.
-Conquest: Not possible for me on Deity just yet. I get my military ramped up too late.
-Histographic: I'm a milker at heart, but again, Deity conquest was eluding me before this game.
I don't want to sound like I'm disparaging those victory conditions. Achieving them on high levels is always impressive, but to stay motivated through the stress of Deity, I needed something fun, and only 20K was left. I've always loved the balance of winning with one city but also building an empire to support it. The inherent dichotomy has always fascinated me.
The problem is how late it often finishes. I can't tell you how many games I've had where UN votes, spaceships, and nuclear exchanges in the late-game pulled the carpet from underneath me.
So, I changed my strategy this time. To avoid late-game meltdowns, I planned on doing one of two things:
1) Win faster
2) Be prepared
My road to victory was not a straight line.
My eventual goal is Sid, and I've spent the last four years on Emperor and Demigod with varying levels of success. I decided I was good enough to tackle Deity.
I didn't spend a lot of time debating what map size. I've always loved long games on huge maps. The slower contacts and tech pace help make higher difficulties more manageable. Traditionally, I prefer pangaea, and I find archipelago doesn't really suit my playstyle all that well. I chose continents.
My civ was the Iroquois, and I used SirPleb's AI set. Copying his GLIB tactic is a copycat cornerstone of my approach to the game.
The victory condition was not an immediate decision, but it did happen by process of elimination:
-Spaceship: I don't do this one so much in Civ3 since it was the default condition of 1 and 2.
-Domination: At first, I enjoyed the addition of this condition since it took some of the grind out of a total conquest, but it's always felt like it falls a little short of a concrete victory. You're granted a win just because you get so OP.
-100K Culture: Very grindy. You also need to be bloody at higher levels, considering the 2x nearest culture rule. Military conquest is not a strong suit for me on higher levels.
-Diplomatic: A popularity contest. I've had to default to it in previous games when my culture city got nuked.
-Conquest: Not possible for me on Deity just yet. I get my military ramped up too late.
-Histographic: I'm a milker at heart, but again, Deity conquest was eluding me before this game.
I don't want to sound like I'm disparaging those victory conditions. Achieving them on high levels is always impressive, but to stay motivated through the stress of Deity, I needed something fun, and only 20K was left. I've always loved the balance of winning with one city but also building an empire to support it. The inherent dichotomy has always fascinated me.
The problem is how late it often finishes. I can't tell you how many games I've had where UN votes, spaceships, and nuclear exchanges in the late-game pulled the carpet from underneath me.
So, I changed my strategy this time. To avoid late-game meltdowns, I planned on doing one of two things:
1) Win faster
2) Be prepared
My road to victory was not a straight line.
So either you built the Great Library in the city which wasn't the 20k city or built in the 20k city and gave the 20k city away? At first I believed you gave the 20k city away. But later I guessed you had your capital or some other non-20k city build the Great Library and gave it away. Which city built The Great Library?
If you will give the (desired) 20k city with The Great Library away all cultural buildings have to get rebuilt. This implies that the doubling of culture from the 1000 year bonus goes away.
If you will have some other city build The Great Library, then you shall have less culture accumulating in the desired 20k city.
What did you do with the gold you got from having no research with the Great Library, or selling technologies since you had The Great Library?
What was your plan for getting The Heroic Epic?
Did you disconnect iron and/or saltpeter to upgrade horseman to knights or horsemen to cavalry after you learned Chivalry?
I should be more clear about "copycatting his GLIB tactic". It was mainly the choice of AI civs so I could Philosophy slingshot the construction of GLib, but I don't give it away on 20K playthroughs. You wind up missing too many wonders in the middle ages, and Shakespeare's was crucial to my game plan. I'll touch on that more later in my write ups.
The gold I saved from no research went largely to funding settlers.
The Heroic Epic didn't get built until the Modern Age. My first MGL and Army didn't happen until after the UN was built. When I said early military conquest isn't my strong suit, I wasn't kidding.
The gold I saved from no research went largely to funding settlers.
The Heroic Epic didn't get built until the Modern Age. My first MGL and Army didn't happen until after the UN was built. When I said early military conquest isn't my strong suit, I wasn't kidding.
Just so there's no confusion about my thread title, the current game I'm writing up was a Deity win as I try and prepare myself for Sid.
The above post is the starting position I settled on. I'm not usually fond of coastal starts; the position puts half the optimal city locations underwater, and core development isn't my strong suit. However, in an effort to get a better finish date, I wanted the Colossus. I'd built it before the AI on several test games and still landed GLib. This wasn't the most perfect starting location, but it turned to be remote and had a nice balance of river/commerce tiles, shields, and two food bonuses.
As I discovered during exploration of the map, I shared a short border with Arabia. I had access to two luxuries, horses, and iron. I shared a continent with the Zulu, Egyptians, and Mongols. However, a large lake separated me from them aside from not one but two single-tile isthmus points. I settled cities on both for defensive purposes and fortified my Arabian border.
The above post is the starting position I settled on. I'm not usually fond of coastal starts; the position puts half the optimal city locations underwater, and core development isn't my strong suit. However, in an effort to get a better finish date, I wanted the Colossus. I'd built it before the AI on several test games and still landed GLib. This wasn't the most perfect starting location, but it turned to be remote and had a nice balance of river/commerce tiles, shields, and two food bonuses.
As I discovered during exploration of the map, I shared a short border with Arabia. I had access to two luxuries, horses, and iron. I shared a continent with the Zulu, Egyptians, and Mongols. However, a large lake separated me from them aside from not one but two single-tile isthmus points. I settled cities on both for defensive purposes and fortified my Arabian border.
Two luxuries for the amount of space I had available to settle were stingy by the map gods, to say the least. But the number of cows was satisfying. In addition to the 20K culture settlement, Caprica City, having a cow and wheat, I was able to establish five pumps based on cows and started cranking out a settler per turn. I aimed for infinite city sprawl outside of my core and was eventually able to reach nearly 100 cities across my empire.
I skipped Republic and Monarchy. Extended Despotism hurts productivity a bit, but I didn't see any sense in two periods of anarchy stalling wonder production. I waited for feudalism. It does wonders for the unit cap when you need a lot of workers and the military. The ability to pop-rush temples on borders to prevent flips also helps, and sacrificing citizens is easy when you're agricultural and have the Pyramids.
Even with relying on GLib for free techs, my own research paid off. After building the Colussus, I was able to rush the Pyramids. I used the other to rush either MoM or GLib and built the other one. Honestly, I don't remember which I did. GLib requires more shields, but there's less risk of losing it to AI than the other. In either case, I marched into the Middle Ages with four wonders under my belt, which I deemed a good start.
A palace relocation to Wheaties helped shift my core a bit off the coast and opened up the possibility of palace prebuilds for the rest of the game.
I relied on GLib alone for technologies until Printing Press was available. I started research on that immediately instead of waiting for Education to make GLib obsolete. With the AI often chasing other technologies before they pursue Democracy, it seems like you can usually trade PP for anywhere from two to five techs, depending on where everyone is at.
I skipped Republic and Monarchy. Extended Despotism hurts productivity a bit, but I didn't see any sense in two periods of anarchy stalling wonder production. I waited for feudalism. It does wonders for the unit cap when you need a lot of workers and the military. The ability to pop-rush temples on borders to prevent flips also helps, and sacrificing citizens is easy when you're agricultural and have the Pyramids.
Even with relying on GLib for free techs, my own research paid off. After building the Colussus, I was able to rush the Pyramids. I used the other to rush either MoM or GLib and built the other one. Honestly, I don't remember which I did. GLib requires more shields, but there's less risk of losing it to AI than the other. In either case, I marched into the Middle Ages with four wonders under my belt, which I deemed a good start.
A palace relocation to Wheaties helped shift my core a bit off the coast and opened up the possibility of palace prebuilds for the rest of the game.
I relied on GLib alone for technologies until Printing Press was available. I started research on that immediately instead of waiting for Education to make GLib obsolete. With the AI often chasing other technologies before they pursue Democracy, it seems like you can usually trade PP for anywhere from two to five techs, depending on where everyone is at.
BlackBetsy
Emperor
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What did you hit SGL's on to rush the Pyramids and MoM or Glib?
Pretty sure one was off Writing and the other off Philosophy/Literature.
I only remember one time I got a double SGL off getting Philosophy and a free tech, and that was years ago.
I should note that Collosus and Pyramids triggered a very early Golden Age for the Iroqouis. Depsite being in despotism, the shields helped with some construction, and it was totally worth it to have a free granary in every city.
I only remember one time I got a double SGL off getting Philosophy and a free tech, and that was years ago.
I should note that Collosus and Pyramids triggered a very early Golden Age for the Iroqouis. Depsite being in despotism, the shields helped with some construction, and it was totally worth it to have a free granary in every city.
Unit cap is an informal term that has no meaning in the game. Unit support is strictly how much you pay in gold to support units. It often holds that one has more total commerce in a Republic than any other government. I feel confident that it also usually holds (more often than not... i. e. for over 50% of the cases) that a Republic has more commerce even though paying more unit support.
Unfortunately, the number of players that have thought unit support as a clue to the economic status of one's government in comparison to other governments is quite high. Perhaps 70%, if not 80% of the players have misunderstood unit support as a clue to the advantages and disadvantages of government selection.
It likely holds that 75% of the time that a Republic has a better economic position than any other government even with paying higher unit support. I even believe that it probably even holds that for 90%, 93%, and 96% of the turns that people played, Republic would have a stronger economic position than other governments, regardless of how much unit support the player has.
Congratulations on your victory Superslug and thank you for your pictures and writeup.
If I recall correctly, there exist 50 turns between 1850 and 1950. I'm sure as can be that there exist 100 turns between starting at 1950 AD and ending at 2050 AD. Is 1850 AD when the increments of years changes from 5 years to 2 years?
In the 540 turn game, 150 turns make for a lot of turns to accumulate culture.
I've read a million times how great Republic is, even when paying unit support, but in the hundred times I've tried it, it rarely works out for me on a huge map. I had six pumps running at one point. I could easily hit 50 active settlers, each with an escort warrior, and I'd be doing this with just a dozen cities or so established. Throw in 40 or more workers, and the unit upkeep is budget-breaking at a time when I'm trying to build embassies and give AI gold on a regular basis to bribe good relations and peace before I can defend myself.
It's very possible that my empire development doesn't build enough roads and commerce to properly use Republic, but for the insane number of cities I spammed, usually only one tile apart, Feudalism is effective.
For most players, Republic is a better choice, especially considering I chose an extended Despotism. Hardly good advice to pass on. My playstyle is probably just a bonkers outlier.
I believe you're right about about two-turns and then one-turn increments for the 1850/1950/2050 stretches.
My win date was 1878 AD, in between CKS games at 1780 and 1898 at #4 and future #5. I'll do write-ups and pix about the Middle, Industrial, and Modern Ages in the coming days.
It's very possible that my empire development doesn't build enough roads and commerce to properly use Republic, but for the insane number of cities I spammed, usually only one tile apart, Feudalism is effective.
For most players, Republic is a better choice, especially considering I chose an extended Despotism. Hardly good advice to pass on. My playstyle is probably just a bonkers outlier.
I believe you're right about about two-turns and then one-turn increments for the 1850/1950/2050 stretches.
My win date was 1878 AD, in between CKS games at 1780 and 1898 at #4 and future #5. I'll do write-ups and pix about the Middle, Industrial, and Modern Ages in the coming days.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I think it's 1750 when it changes from five- to two-year increments.
Found this on an archive, I think it's relatively accurate:
From 4000 BC to 2750 BC each turn 50 years
From 2750 BC to 1750 BC each turn 40 years
From 1750 BC to 750 BC each turn 25 years
From 750 BC to 250 AD each turn 20 years
From 250 AD to 1250 AD each turn 10 years
From 1250 AD to 1750 AD each turn 5 years
From 1750 AD to 1950 AD each turn 2 years
From 1950 AD to 2050 AD each turn 1 year
From 4000 BC to 2750 BC each turn 50 years
From 2750 BC to 1750 BC each turn 40 years
From 1750 BC to 750 BC each turn 25 years
From 750 BC to 250 AD each turn 20 years
From 250 AD to 1250 AD each turn 10 years
From 1250 AD to 1750 AD each turn 5 years
From 1750 AD to 1950 AD each turn 2 years
From 1950 AD to 2050 AD each turn 1 year
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