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[GS] Sweden Livestream Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso Warlord

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    Could be a nice mechanic. "Longship: this naval melee unit can navigate on flooded tiles. If the tile stopped being flooded while the unit is on it, it is automatically destroyed." OP but not too much because you have to be quick.
     
  2. Alexadamz

    Alexadamz Warlord

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    We just need to know how long does a flood affects the tile. We know that Dams makes floods not happen anymore. But after a flood takes place at the start of the game, before Dams are available or when a city is flood with no Dams, for how many turns tiles remains flooded? Floods naturally retreats (and it doesn't take too long in real life, some days maybe - in Civ each turn is some years in the beginning of the game). If the flood of the tile stays in place for 3 turns at least, maybe it is exploitable to make Norway unique in gameplay. But I don't think it may last that much. That way for me it would be better (and easier to the game codes) to make floodplains tiles work as canals for Longships: canals are a new feature and they could link how that work to some ability for Longships, and so we could use more and not by chance of random events. Besides, the vikings raided the rivers even in shallow waters, because of the special design of their ship's hulls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship).
     
  3. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    That was Pete? I thought it was Etep, Pete's evil warmongering twin (he had a beard)
     
  4. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    For better or worse. It would be cool if pillaging rewards depended on the target's era.

    Nice little boost for improvements I think I have built only for the achievements. I may still only build them very infrequently, though.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  5. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Great wall? Ah yes, that minor travesty.

    Forget giving China early canals. Let's see some revision there.

    Would think they could lift from the Cree's UA and have it where the wall can be built on the outskirts of a city, and when that happens it automatically becomes part of the city's territory.

    Still with me? Now, make Great Wall tiles impassable to barbarians.

    Now we got something that would actually appeal to players to build early (for defense and territory expansion), and value later for the tourism.
     
    Krajzen, Ondolindë, Kjimmet and 8 others like this.
  6. Wyvern_Parade

    Wyvern_Parade Chieftain

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    Yeah Germany is going to be even more insane late game with these changes. If they're my opponent I know who I'm killing first. That being said, I'm glad they buffed the power plant and gave us a rather good incentive to care about industrial zone adjacency. I wonder if the other types of power plants will have similar bonuses or if it only applies to the coal plant.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  7. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I've always thought that Factory/PP should have the bonus based on adjacency. This will definitely make those +4 or +5 IZ way more valuable, and definitely make the IZ adjacency card more valuable late game (especially since it's even more important to get IZ coverage for power).
     
    Meluhhan and Trav'ling Canuck like this.
  8. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer Prince

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    After watching the stream, I'm sad to see how awful the AI remains at combat. I really hope the AI gets an update some day.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  9. Red_warning

    Red_warning Warlord

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    Longships being able to travel on rivers would be both amazing and immersive, but I don't think that will be done simply due to how the hex system works.

    Firaxis should really consider making certain rivers traversable by some ship types in future iterations.
     
    George Abitbol and Meluhhan like this.
  10. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Well, they could work somewhat like early-era paratroopers, maybe? No friendly territory requirement, natch.

    I always wanted to see some sort of unit like that, which can sort of pop out guerrilla-style.
     
  11. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    I like the basic idea, but I would rather not tie it to flooding. Here's how I would do it: instead of letting the Longship move up river on the game map, simply make tiles along the river available as targets for raiding. This would obviously not apply to the full length of the river, but be limited to a certain number of tiles inland, maybe 3.

    So, the way I imagine it, as a Longship reaches a river mouth, it first gets visibility of all tiles adjacent to that river which are no more than three tiles inland. This would also be a great buff to Norway's exploration capabilities, to better compete with the Maori. Then, if you click the coastal raid button, any valid raiding targets in those tiles get highlighted as possible targets for the raid.

    This would make Longships great explorers, as well as an unholy terror on coastal cities.
     
    Meluhhan, Karmah, Dark_Jedi06 and 8 others like this.
  12. Alexadamz

    Alexadamz Warlord

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    I think that would be easier to make in the game mechanics, but less versatile in some ways and more in others. For me, river floodlands should work as canals for Longships because of its accuracy to how things work: rivers with hills probably have waterfalls or different levels and so would need the Canal district, which comes later, to be navigable. Besides we could have more floodlands than just 3 tiles inland from the coast, and that way Norway could go more and more inland - for example, the Nile river, if we count the tiles from its mouth, has more than 3 tiles from land, and are all floodplains and so would be less flexible the ammount of pillaging Norway could do there. But I guess your idea is easier to be made.
     
  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Now can we get him to say this in-game...in Quechua? :p

    Agreed.

    Because that worked so well in Chinese history. The Mongols, Jurchens, Manchu, Xiongnu, Yuezhi, Jie, etc. just had to turn around in disappointment when confronted with the Great Wall of China. :lol: (Actually, the Great Wall is so tactically useless that modern historians and anthropologists speculate the Wall had religious significance, since it certainly had no military significance.)
     
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  14. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    First they calculate which proposal to tackle, then they calculate who the target is. There were more votes for option B (7 vs 3), then Eastern Orthodoxy won because they had the most votes (2).

    Just because you placed more favor in, doesn't mean you're going to immediately overrule everyone else. Why should you? The current system incentivizes paying attention to world events and making intelligent decisions about what to vote for based on other civ's propensity towards particular votes (they even tell you what some civs are more likely in favor of).

    So if you want increased yields but everyone else is tackling decreased yields, unless you want to be left out of the equation, you would need to work with other civilizations.

    I think the only real "fuzzy" area is ties as it is based on percentages.


    Edit: And I just realized I responded to an old post lol
     
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  15. darkace77450

    darkace77450 King

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    I was hoping it would be changed, but the change I had in mind was two builders instead of two settlers. A Diplomatic Victor point is an interesting and unexpected direction to take this wonder.
     
  16. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    CCddd
    Well, a lot of stuff didn't work in history that still manages to find a place in Civ. I mean, you wouldn't have certain civ's at all if we were just going by what actually panned out in history. We're dealing in a game of "what-if's" and "do-overs"....and in the case of Sweden--sailing around like a globe-trotting imperialist and colonizing every biome just so they can have more buildings for their open-air museums--just a wee bit of a contrivance :lol:.

    In essence, the RL China "player" didn't build enough of his UI to provide a barrier, so barbarians could just ride around them. He chose to do other things with his builders. And of course, the Mongols--being an actual civ, not barbarians--would not be stopped by such a mechanism in any event.

    As for the wall's actual purpose, wasn't it more like a big public works project? Kept idle hands from getting rowdy, provided a little placebo effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  17. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    That is very good example you posted of the problems with the voting.
    I didn’t quite get earlier that votes sum up for A and B, and an option wins, then the target. Sort of 2-pass. But the problem is that it is NOT 2-pass. In essense, you will vote on options you don’t want to choose.
    Like with Religion. I vote for religion X, it means I don’t want religion Y or Z. But here i actually vote for Y and Z also. This is so wrong.
     
  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    The Chinese certainly regarded the Mongols as Yi (until they became the Yuan Dynasty). :p The chief problem with the Wall is that most of it is in the mountains. Since the purpose of a wall is to stop vehicles and horses, a purpose the mountains are already serving... :p

    A symbol of the emperor's pride is indeed another theory. But several Chinese religions believe that spirits can't go over walls, hence the theory that it had religious significance to keep out evil spirits. I doubt it was simply to give jobs to idle hands. When you're a peasant, your hands are rarely idle, and if they were the emperor could surely have found them more practical employment than a wall in the mountains...
     
  19. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

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    Engligh is not my main language, so I'm not sure - did I hear correctly that they record all the music for Civ6 in Prague?
    That would mean that Bohemia (now Czech Republic) as a civ in Civ6 goes from completely impossible (= the developpers have never even heard about it) to very unlikely, which still is good news for me :D
     
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  20. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Most of the surviving Wall is in the mountains, because that was the late ('Ming') wall made of stone. The bulk of the wall was across the plains/steppes/desert of central northern China, largely flat land, and the wall was made of the traditional Chinese fortification material, Rammed Earth. Which, if not maintained, becomes the Great Linear Lump and essentially disappears, which is what has happened.

    The real value of the wall was not in stopping nomads, but in forcing them to fight on Chinese Infantry Army terms. China's basic military problem was always that she had no good source of horses for cavalry except to buy them from the nomads that they needed the horses to fight against, and a foot-marching army in which about half the troops were 'bearers' to supply the other half (estimate from figures of the Tang Dynasty armies) was never going to catch, let alone beat or deter, the nomadic cavalry.
    A well-garrisoned wall (and 'well garrisoned' was the catch) reduced the value of nomadic mobility and forced them to fight essentially a head-on battle against Chinese infantry and missile troops who had the advantage off fortifications. BUT the wall only worked if it had substantial garrisons and some 'field' troops behind it to stop any nomads that did get across or around the wall, by catching them between the army and the wall - again, negating the nomads mobility.

    When a Dynasty had the military might to effectively garrison the wall it worked, but that didn't happen consistently and when the garrisons left, the nomads came thundering back. Ironically, some of the most successful Dynasties (Tang, for example) were Mixed - the Tang aristocracy was a combination of Chinese, Nomadic, and mixed Chinese-Foreign, and so included a lot of horsemen and horse-breeders (who, as a result, converted a lot of farmland into pasturage and forcibly removed a lot of peasants and a lot of peasant food, which came back in the form of Peasant Revolts later) so that the Tang had armies of heavy and light cavalry every bit as good as the nomads'. But that was an exception: more often the nomads conquered the whole State (temporarily) so that numerous 'nomad' Dynasties dot the history of northern China. . .
     

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