[LP] Leader Pass: Rulers of England - 3/28 Developer Livestream w/ Andrew Johnson Discussion

Being really good at building all the things is kinda meh for the final addition to Civ 6 though. It doesn't inspire any unique playstyles. It just goes harder for whatever you want. Science projects, Wonders, units, whatever.

That's a good civ for beginners. In vanilla, it would have put paid to Frederick, who was widely considered to have the best civ at the time.
 
From this pack, Steam Victoria is the one I might try. It's nothing fancy, but I prefer a solid production bonus to the additional military units of other Victoria.

With Harald it's the opposite. Norway with regular Harald just fits together so well. The production boost for Naval Melee lets you get the Longships out quickly, which gets you the boost for Shipbuilding, which lets you cross oceans early, allowing you to send your ships further, and since they are both stronger and can heal in neutral waters, they don't need to return anytime soon, which means you can keep them exploring while pillaging and popping goody huts. I'm sure the city state levy ability is powerful, but I just don't see myself playing Norway without the Longships and coastal raids.
 
Being really good at building all the things is kinda meh for the final addition to Civ 6 though. It doesn't inspire any unique playstyles. It just goes harder for whatever you want. Science projects, Wonders, units, whatever.

That's a good civ for beginners. In vanilla, it would have put paid to Frederick, who was widely considered to have the best civ at the time.

Perhaps it was originally meant for the Great Builders pack?

I appreciated the admission, during the livestream, that the "themed drops" were kind of a joke.
 
Long post inbound.

Okay so, people have mentioned that Steamed Victoria's ability is obviously very strong, but I wanna give everyone a picture of exactly how strong.

Here's a conservative example. Say you have a city with a +3 Production Industrial Zone. Then you slot in Craftsmen to double that adjacency bonus to +6 Production. Already, not an insubstantial amount. But, of course, this isn't a blank city. It has 1 Mine and an instance of Iron you haven't even improved yet. That mine gives its grassland hill tile +2 Production, totaling to +3 Production. The Iron, also on a grassland hill, produces +3 Production thanks to the extra Production on strategic resources.

Add that all up, and our city is producing +12 Production.

And then we build a Workshop. That gives us +3 Production, increasing our total to +15. Steamed Victoria's ability gives us +10% Production, making our total +16.5 Production.

If we weren't playing Victoria, we would have only made
12 Production. Victoria, in a small, 2 population city with only one mine, one nice Industrial Zone, and one source of Iron, is giving us +4.5 Production.

But what about a more liberal example?

Say this city instead has 4 mines, and one of them is an Iron mine. They're all on plains hills too, so the tiles naturally have +2 Production. We've recently researched Industrialization and built Ruhr Valley, meaning each of our hills with mines produces +6 Production, and the one with Iron gets an additional extra +2 from Vicky. From mines alone this is +26 Production.

The Industrial Zone has an adjacency of +5 doubled to +10 with Craftsmen. We have a Workshop giving us +3 and a powered Factory which gives us +7 (normally +3 but Workshop of the World buffs it). Our Industrial Zone, including buildings, is giving us +20 Production. Combine that with our mines and we already have +46.

Say this city also gets +4 Production from domestic trade routes. Our total is now +50.

Ruhr gives us +20% Production, and Steamed Vicky's bonus from IZ buildings gives us another +20%. 140% of 50 is 70 Production, 12.4 of which came from Vicky.

TL;DR:she's really good
Now think if you have Kilwa Kisiwani and you are suzerain of two industrial city-states.
 
Being really good at building all the things is kinda meh for the final addition to Civ 6 though. It doesn't inspire any unique playstyles. It just goes harder for whatever you want. Science projects, Wonders, units, whatever.
I absolutely agree.

She'll be fun for Production maximization but that's about it. Original Vicky is more thematic and flavorful, and kind of more fun too. This Vicky just coops up and builds. Original Vicky sprawls out and uses her resources to expand and then build.

Kinda wish that these three leaders weren't stepping on the toes of their predecessors.

Lizzy, as mentioned by @Republic of San Montuoso is reminiscent of Mali, Phoenicia, and Portugal (in that order from least to most reminiscent).

Harald has similarities to Gilgamesh and Matthias while not really connecting well with Norway's CUA (love how it ties in with Berserkers and encourages you to build Holy Sites for God of War, nodding to the Stave Churches).

Steamed Vicky feels like a big Pantheon belief.

These leaders are cool and I'll probably enjoy squeezing them for every yield I can (which isn't as much as it seems for Harald), but it might have been better to put Great Commanders or Great Builders last.
 
SteamVicky, I guess, would be a pain eith Global Warming tough (altough it is a pain for all players).

To give more (Dickens-esque) flavour and balance a bit things, ¿do you think adding unhappiness to IZ buildings (at least factories) might help?
 
I wonder what they are gonna call the original personas of Victoria and Harald.
Viking Harald and Empress Victoria makes the most sense.

I haven't watched the livestream but first impressions of the abilities, and agendas, makes me think that this is pack feels a little underwhelming.

Unfortunately, Elizabeth is my least favorite. Did they really bring her back just for the memes? Isn't that agenda essentially the same as Wilhelmina? :nono:

Varangian Harald is fine, I just wish there was more synergy between that and other components of the civ.

Ironically Steam Victoria is my favorite. Sure, it's boring but it pairs well with Workshop of the World. I was also looking forward to making her an alt. for Scotland too and it pairs nicely with Scottish Enlightenment too. :mischief:
 
Viking Harald and Empress Victoria makes the most sense.

I haven't watched the livestream but first impressions of the abilities, and agendas, makes me think that this is pack feels a little underwhelming.

Unfortunately, Elizabeth is my least favorite. Did they really bring her back just for the memes? Isn't that agenda essentially the same as Wilhelmina? :nono:

Varangian Harald is fine, I just wish there was more synergy between that and other components of the civ.

Ironically Steam Victoria is my favorite. Sure, it's boring but it pairs well with Workshop of the World. I was also looking forward to making her an alt. for Scotland too and it pairs nicely with Scottish Enlightenment too. :mischief:

Bess is my least favorite, as well, unfortunately. My first play out of this pack with be Big Hat Vicky, because, sometimes, the most OP leaders are the most fun. 😈
 
Our "spin doctor" sold me on Elizabeth--does CFC have a charter for the new world yet? At the same time, the rationale for Elizabeth kind of undercut any global scale for either Victoria. In fact, the context for Age of Steam Victoria makes her ability a real head scratcher. Of course, the ability is strong, but it is baffling that they mentioned production and science as king yields with the need for balance but then doubled down on England's industrial theme :nope:

This looks like a great place for a thematic malus. Leave the production bonuses in but balance them with housing and amenities, if you want to make industrialization look domestic. You could even make luxuries reach fewer cities to represent manufactured goods and consumerism. Unfortunately, I am not sure the LP has the tools to represent industrialization as intertwined with global markets.

Why oh why not give the Varangian Longboats?! Carl just looked unimpressed with his puttering Galleys. The Janissary/Longboat debate has been alive and well, but it just doesn't make sense to me why the devs would want to play that way. Also, insights into Victoria's outfit would surely be of interest to those of us inordinately invested in 19th-century British fashion...
 
In fact, the context for Age of Steam Victoria makes her ability a real head scratcher. Of course, the ability is strong, but it is baffling that they mentioned production and science as king yields with the need for balance but then doubled down on England's industrial theme :nope:
I mean theoretically you can turn off GS rules and play Age of Steam Victoria with the British Museum ability too. Instead of doubling down on production, one of the bonuses could have been science instead.
Why oh why not give the Varangian Longboats?! Carl just looked unimpressed with his puttering Galleys. The Janissary/Longboat debate has been alive and well, but it just doesn't make sense to me why the devs would want to play that way. Also, insights into Victoria's outfit would surely be of interest to those of us inordinately invested in 19th-century British fashion...
Personally, I'm fine with leaving Berserkers as the civ UU, and the Longboat as the Viking persona UU. Berserkers fit the theme of being both Viking and Varangian. :p
 
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Kinda puzzling they chose to end with this pack instead of one of the more interesting ones.
This is just the quality I expected so..... meh for me. Was hoping they would make England more interesting.... just as I expected new Victoria is more interesting.
 
Good do that. I would be interested to subscribe to that mod.
But they are boring like Sejong was.
Eh...The point is Scotland would finally have a leader ability. Especially one that pairs well with Scottish Enlightenment. :D
 
Eh...The point is Scotland would finally have a leader ability. Especially one that pairs well with Scottish Enlightenment. :D
And I agree with you... but without extra modding it doesn't change the fact that they are boring and unimaginative ( and in case of new Victoria strong) ability.
Now if they made Victoria duel leader than yeah that WOULD be cool but alas...
 
From this pack, Steam Victoria is the one I might try. It's nothing fancy, but I prefer a solid production bonus to the additional military units of other Victoria.

With Harald it's the opposite. Norway with regular Harald just fits together so well. The production boost for Naval Melee lets you get the Longships out quickly, which gets you the boost for Shipbuilding, which lets you cross oceans early, allowing you to send your ships further, and since they are both stronger and can heal in neutral waters, they don't need to return anytime soon, which means you can keep them exploring while pillaging and popping goody huts. I'm sure the city state levy ability is powerful, but I just don't see myself playing Norway without the Longships and coastal raids.

On the other hand, I rarely use berserkers in any significant way with vanilla Harald. With Varangian Harald I think I'll find myself spreading chaos in all corners of the map, which is a pretty unique playstyle since with other leaders there's rarely an incentive to engage in combat far from your empire.
 
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