Tactics and Strategy T130-T150

[damnrunner]

Game down for a week - lame!

We only have 1 Great person right now so we can't do the golden age anyway. Also the cash from the merchant will be best used to upgrade our cannons.

 

[cav scout]

In BTS the first Golden Age only costs 1 great person. The second costs 2 and the thirds costs 3, so on so forth.

 

[damnrunner]

No way - that is nice. I still think we save the GM for a trade mission.

Golden ages will also have a greater benefit later on in the game when we have more developed cities. Also other teams will have already used their 1st few golden ages so we can use our to out compete.

 

[mikotian]

well the point of doing a GA now is to basically get 2 "free" turns. We might not get an opportunity like this again. Besides, what other GP do we have to spare? If we get more priests, it would seem logical to make more shrines... If we get more scientists, we'll get more academies.

In the grand scheme of the game, the GM might be the least opportunity-cost GP we will ever produce? (unless we get a great person from another tech... like the great spy)

Anyway, I don't know what our base commerce/hammers are so I don't know the cost/benefit from the GA versus trade mission. But we seriously ought to think about it...

 

[damnrunner]

You make a good point. I also did not know that in BTS a GA allows civics switching without anarchy. I am fairly worried about the # of catapults we need to upgrade - which is why I think the GM is best for a trade mission. But if we could get all the gold we need from Cav a GA might make sense. It would also speed the date at which we get rifles.

We need about 2000 gold to upgrade our armies. How much can we expect to get from Cav and MS?

 

[mikotian]

Alright, no screens have been posted in a number of turns but here is what I have from the latest screens:

Our "base" GDP is 290. Or "base" production is 48. I'm guessing we've grown a bit by then. On the other hand, we were running 100% research and a deficit, so I have no idea what our "actual" base gold/research is.

I'm going to guess at breakeven, we are running 190 research. That's just a guess, but I think I'm not far off the mark because I doubt our upkeep is that big.

So our 2 free turns =
100 hammers
380 beakers

I also counted all the tiles in the last screens. Since that was a while ago, these numbers are probably conservative. In either case, we will get base gold and base hammer bonuses of:
51 commerce
35 hammer

We have pretty damn good science infrastructure, so I'd put the 51 commerce at 90 beakers conservatively... I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually over 100 because I'm not counting academies or oxford. The 35 hammer is probably worth like 40 final hammers because we don't have many forges AFAIK.

90 x 10 = 900 beakers
40 x 10 = 400 hammers

So all told, we get 1280 beakers and 500 hammers, assuming no population growth from turn 138 or whatever.

Is this worth more than a trade mission? I have no idea how much $$ a trade mission is worth on our map, but the hammer bonus is hard to turn down... I mean, 500 hammers can make like 4.5 cannons.

 

[mikotian]

yeah I know the gold is a time sensitive issue... MS seems to have a lot of markets and so forth. If they can give us the gold, that'd be the best option.

 

[damnrunner]

I am liking your idea more mikotian. I expect we can stay at 100% research with $ from Cav and MS - the question is where can we get the $ to upgrade our armies. I'll try to draft up a message to send Team Cav.

A GA also will allow us to speed up getting RP and rifles which I belive totals around 4000-5000 beakers. Ideally we could finish rifles while still in a GA and then swicth our civis a 2nd time to Nationalism and begin drafting redcoats.

We probably should have used our earlier scientist for the GA - but alas - tis too late for that.

 

[donsig]

I doubt our allies will be willing and/or able to shell out 2000g for our upgrades. If speed is critical then we might get the needed gold faster from the trade mission. Of course to determine that we need to know how fast we can move the great merchant. We also need to get it first.

 

[damnrunner]

It is pretty dead this week. Did anyone send the messages to Team Cav and MS? We need a response form them in order to proceed once the game starts up.

As to moving the GM - I still favor the approach of gifting a city while we are in anarchy.

 

[donsig]

I doubt any messages were sent. Feel free to send something. Just let us all know what you send.

As for gifting a city for the trade mission, would that result in us getting less gold? I thought the amount depended on distance of the city (though I really know little about it).

 

[mikotian]

Yes I think the gold amount is based on the city's "prestige" ranking and the distance. Big, cultured, far away cities = more money.

 

[cav scout]

Type "great merchant trade mission" into google and you will get a decent number of articles talking about the mechanics, not all in agreement. Near as I can tell the amount of gold is influenced most by what the target cities trade routes would be with your capital.

If we do a trade mission I think we would be best served by moving to CAVs capital (7 turns) versus city trading. They have gifted us their carrack to facilitate the move, it's parked at the western end of our road network. After the GM (hopefully) spawns I will experiment with move orders to see what trade mission yields we can get from various cities.
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Also, CAV has gifted us some gold and traded us Steel for Divine Right. When I press end turn we will complete Economics and Oxford. What do we build next in Haz? I would say the choices are between a frigate, a cannon or an observatory. I'm leaning strongly towards the frigate.

I believe we are planning on switching from Organized Religion to Theo next turn. That means if we what to whip any buildings (Maoi in Atyrau, temple in Aktau) then we should do it NOW (before I hit end turn) to get the organized bonus.

Of course we want to decide on trade mission vs. golden age before we change civics.

 

[cav scout]

Crap I just realized I made an error in accepting CAVs offer of steel when I logged in. I did it automatically without thinking... now our cats in the build queue will convert to cannons and take longer to build

Edit- we only had two cats in the pipeline, not that bad.

 

[cav scout]

A few more hours and our turn rolls... what does everyone think about the whips in Atyrau and Aktau?

 

[damnrunner]

I have not and will not be sending messages. I don't know anyone's email addresses.

I say whip the Moai in Aty. I think it was determined not to whip the temple in Aktau.

Frigate next in Haz is my preference.

 

[damnrunner]

Since it seems Cav won't really be ready to attack for about 10 turns, I think it makes sense to use the GM for a GA. If we start the golden age next turn and then immediately switch to Theo and Free markets. That will speed up the date when we get rifles. Also do we have Nationalism right now? If so, on the last turn of the GA I think we should switch to the nationalism civic so that we can draft redcoats and soon as we tech rifles.

If we don’t have Nationalism – lets encourage Cav to tech it.

 

[cav scout]

Quick turn around and we are up again. Advanced our spy to Zero and discovered a SANCTA quick reaction force stack on the hill East of TKY.

I tried to shift click a delayed move order for the GM to the CAV capital to determine the trade mission yield. Unfortunately since we dont have visibility on Serpente we can't determine it. And for really bad news, I misclicked and the GM moved So I don't think we can start the golden age this turn (although the GA option is still clickable his movement is exhausted).

The only unit that will be produced when we click end turn is the longbow in Taraz. Should we change the build order to a pike or musket or just finish the longbow without the Theo bonus?

 

[damnrunner]

Hold off on the LB we want the Theo bonus.

 

[cav scout]

Should we switch to a pike or musket? SANCTA has at least 5 mounted units in the area so i'm leaning pike.