Tactics and Strategy Turns 100-120

[Kaleb]

Done most moves including Sword and Chariot to the front forest. We've got 4 units there and road will be done next turn. I don't think we need more units on that spot.

Pavlodar can do a Catapult in 7 turns of a Forge in 12.

Oskemen can whip the forge this turn and I would suggest it does so (86/120 currently). We then build a sword which will turn into a mace along the way.

Oh and I would also like to advocate building a monument in Taraz. It will be finished this turn. The monument will mean our borders pops in 6 turns instead of 10 and that we have 3 monuments, meaning we can build Statue of Zeus if we get Ivory.

Phoenix Mountain is the city up our coast and it's undefended!

p.s. our Gold mine by Shymkent is completed so we could switch from the grass cottage to the mine for 6 extra. City will still grow in 2.

 

[cav scout]

The reason we need all our units there is 1.) we want to discourage SANCTA from moving SW, SW with the chariots and 2.) if they do move SW, SW we need enough combat power to attack across the river and kill all three.

Axes sitting in the city don't do anything for us. What's the point in keeping them there?

Note: the only way this plan will work is if we road with that worker instead of chop.

 

[damnrunner]

I think we work the gold mine.

Osk should whip the forge.

Pav - catapult

Surprised the Sancta city is undefended. They either think our military really sucks. Or they are pressed for units. Or maybe they want us to kill the city as it it such a crappy one. They probably built it hoping they could use the border pop to sail around any blocking ships we put in. Geography is on our side here as they will need a x3 border pop to do this.

 

[cav scout]

I can't imagine they will leave it undefended much longer. Too bad we don't have a galley, we could take it with our warrior

Oh and CAV has 252 gold and MS has 49.

 

[damnrunner]

At the moment the Sancta city actually helps us.

They will feel the need to defend it - which will take units away from Angle. And it increases their city maintenance which will slow their tech pace.

 

[cav scout]

I could support the monument in Taraz, every bit of culture helps I suppose. And Zeus would be a cheap wonder with ivory that would help us against SANCTA.

I also think we should work the gold mine for the cash. More important we should get CAV and MS to give us every bit of gold they have. We have been fighting SANCTA on their behalf and we have lost units in the shared cause. They need to pay up. Can everyone pm and message those guys and tell them how important it is? We should hold the turn up until autoroll if necessary to give them time to gift their cash. If they are unwilling to help then it just means they are stringing us along while we duke it out with SANCTA.

Finally can we get consensus on moving the axes to the forest? I know Indiansmoke and Damnrunner both agree with me. How does everyone else feel about it?

 

[damnrunner]

I can support the monument. A slightly faster border pop will be nice - and the Statue of Zeus is great. Team Cav is not building it though are they? Also do we know MS will give us Ivory?

My only question would be how much reduced maintenance would we get from a courthouse If it is high enough it may make sense to skip the monument and get a courthouse sooner.

 

[Kaleb]

The reason we need all our units there is 1.) we want to discourage SANCTA from moving SW, SW with the chariots and 2.) if they do move SW, SW we need enough combat power to attack across the river and kill all three.

Axes sitting in the city don't do anything for us. What's the point in keeping them there?

Note: the only way this plan will work is if we road with that worker instead of chop.

we'll have that road completed next turn, so if they move SW,SW we can still nail them. and we can move the units out of the forest quickly too. we should keep units back as we don't want to show our whole hand.

I've gone for monument and forge whip btw.

Cav gave us enough gold to keep tech at 100%.

 

[cav scout]

Actually we do want to show our whole hand. They have no idea what forces we have or that it is our whole hand. The point was to show strength in the forest to discourage them moving SW, SW.

Kaleb- Three team members said they supported moving everything to the forest. You disagreed and then played the turn with 13 hours still on the clock.
I understand (first hand) that the turn player is required to make executive decision at times. But when multiple team members have expressed an opinion you really should respect that. At least hold off on playing the turn as long as you can and let the discussion continue.

Oh, and I was also hoping we could hold the turn up until autoroll if necessary to give us time to encourage CAV and MS to give us money.

 

[Indiansmoke]

If we whip the forge we get +25 on the whip and then +25 on the overflow for a unit.

No we don't get the 25% on the overflow if it is a unit. 25% is only for buildings.

 

[Indiansmoke]

kaleb did you actually calculate what we gain by slaving the forge now instead of going sword first? Or are you just playing by instinct?

Also what is this nonsense about monument? We are going to spend 30 hammers we don't need in a newly found city that has no food for now? Sancta show up with units and you are starting monument in a city that has culture??????????

 

[Kaleb]

Actually we do want to show our whole hand. They have no idea what forces we have or that it is our whole hand. The point was to show strength in the forest to discourage them moving SW, SW.

Kaleb- Three team members said they supported moving everything to the forest. You disagreed and then played the turn with 13 hours still on the clock.
I understand (first hand) that the turn player is required to make executive decision at times. But when multiple team members have expressed an opinion you really should respect that. At least hold off on playing the turn as long as you can and let the discussion continue.

Sorry, I should have waited and done a proper tally - I was in the minority on that one at the time I played the turn.

One point you had raised was that if the chariots move SW,SW the axes in the city can't reach them, but they can as the road will be completed.

SANCTA have a good idea of how many units we have but not what types we have and where. Remember they are closely scrutinising our demographics every turn and if we show 2 more axes they will know where 90% of our disposable forces are.

There is enough on the forest to repel the 3 chariots attacking. If they do go SW,SW that's actually quite handy for us as we can easily kill off all 3 chariots on our next turn.

No we don't get the 25% on the overflow if it is a unit. 25% is only for buildings.

I mean we have a forge now, so we get 25% on everything.

kaleb did you actually calculate what we gain by slaving the forge now instead of going sword first? Or are you just playing by instinct?

Yes, have a look - the sword will be one turn from completion when we get Machinery so we are effectively able to start building our first Mace now as the sword will become obsolete and turn into a Mace half-way through production.

Also what is this nonsense about monument? We are going to spend 30 hammers we don't need in a newly found city that has no food for now? Sancta show up with units and you are starting monument in a city that has culture??????????

the quicker the borders pop the quicker we can farm that wheat. If we can get a border pop it also reduces the safe areas where a SANCTA spy could move around without risking getting caught.

Statue of Zeus can be a really useful (and cheap) wonder for us in a long drawn-out war with SANCTA but we only had 2 monuments and Taraz was as good a place as any to build a 3rd.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yes, have a look - the sword will be one turn from completion when we get Machinery so we are effectively able to start building our first Mace now as the sword will become obsolete and turn into a Mace half-way through production.

the quicker the borders pop the quicker we can farm that wheat. If we can get a border pop it also reduces the safe areas where a SANCTA spy could move around without risking getting caught.

Statue of Zeus can be a really useful (and cheap) wonder for us in a long drawn-out war with SANCTA but we only had 2 monuments and Taraz was as good a place as any to build a 3rd.

The point is we could have both a sword and a mace and more hammers from whips..the way you did it we will have only a mace....do it in the test map...you will see....

Regarding the monument... what can I say...granary faster looked much more important to me, to get this city growing and whipping...now things will be majorly delayed...and wheat we need a mace there to improve and roads so it is not as simple...we will definatelly not be in a position to start improving it in 6 turns.

Statue of Zeus...if we decided to build it..which we have not yet...it would be much easier and less painfull to get a monument in one of the developed cities.

 

[Kaleb]

I agree - we've not decide on SoZ.

Regarding Oskemen - I don't see how we would get more hammers from whipping by doing things the other way around? surely it's better to whip after we've got the forge? In 2 turns we can do a 2 pop which on the Sword-turned-Maceman. So in next 3 turns alone forge will have gotten us an extra 24 (3 turns of 8/pt + 13 overflow from last turn, 60 from whip = 96. 25% bonus is therefore 24 extra).

We need to get a balance right between spending on upgrades and delaying Cav getting Paper. The quicker Cav get Paper the quicker we can get Ivory from MS and start building Elephants. Paper will also give us +14 per turn or

 

[Indiansmoke]

Regarding Oskemen - I don't see how we would get more hammers from whipping by doing things the other way around? surely it's better to whip after we've got the forge? In 2 turns we can do a 2 pop which on the Sword-turned-Maceman. So in next 3 turns alone forge will have gotten us an extra 24 (3 turns of 8/pt + 13 overflow from last turn, 60 from whip = 96. 25% bonus is therefore 24 extra).

We need to get a balance right between spending on upgrades and delaying Cav getting Paper. The quicker Cav get Paper the quicker we can get Ivory from MS and start building Elephants. Paper will also give us +14 per turn or

How are you calculating this? The 25% is per turn not in total...so we get 2 hammers per turn with forge...in 3 turns that is 6 hammers.

I am confused now...the overflow gets multiplied twice? When you whip a forge with organized you get 25% on the whip...and another 25% on the overflow?

 

[Kaleb]

How are you calculating this? The 25% is per turn not in total...so we get 2 hammers per turn with forge...in 3 turns that is 6 hammers.

I am confused now...the overflow gets multiplied twice? When you whip a forge with organized you get 25% on the whip...and another 25% on the overflow?

Yes, sorry I'm double counting on the overflow. You get 25% on the whip from OR, and then 25% on the overflow from the Forge, that you've completed. At least I think that's how it works

For next turn:
Worker by Atyrau > onto fur
Worker on Gold > NE, cottage 1 turn OR NE,NE to head up to Pavlodar to make windmill
Worker S of Taraz > SE, road 1 turn
Atyrau > 2 pop whip of Stable
1st Trireme > advance?
Haz > Forge


btw the borders of Phoenix Mountain will pop this turn.

 

[Kaleb]

Our turn is up

I hope people can get back to me soon on the points above! Also need to decide which direction to send Spy, NE or NW

we also need to decide on what to do at the front line:

Spoiler :

No reply from MS and they seem to be running at a deficit on gold so they aren't building up any Gold. Looks like they are ignoring our request for help.

Cav asked us for our surplus Gold which I've given, no skin off our nose. We can also give them our workboat as we don't need it anymore with paper coming.

p.s. Cav are generating 85/turn and have 89 in reserves currently.

(btw our max gpt is +65)

 

[cav scout]

Worker by Atyrau should road on the way to the furs.
Worker by Shymkent should cottage.
Spy should go NE, SANCTA is going to found a city and we dont want to be inside boundaries unless we have to.

Not surprised that MS isn't giving us gold. But why does CAV want our gold?

 

[Kaleb]

Sorry I can see that's ambiguous. I meant the resource Gold - presumably they want it for happiness.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I agree w/ Cavscout that Spy should go NE. We need to see if that city next to TKY is isolated at all or if it is part of a continuous border.