Take-2-Interactive's new EULA

[Noble Zarkon]

While in the UK I work for a US company that forced everyone to get AMEX cards.

Oh that sounds very familiar including the exact same conversation with my Manager!!

 

[Victoria]

Oh that sounds very familiar including the exact same conversation with my Manager!!

OMG... you are my second account! I wondered why you never reprimanded my wayward comments.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

The collection and storage of personal data by businesses has been, shall we say, rather cavalier historically? They ask, we give (can't get their product otherwise), then they do - what exactly? often they don't even know. They get it for one reason and then it just stays on their books.

When their books were made of paper - I worked in a bank during those days, moving mortgage data from one ledger to another in the pre-computer era - nothing much ever came of it. Then everything went electronic, and then it went to an integrated network - Internet! Yay! So much easier to collect data now!

Malicious use of personal data is one thing, Careless storage is a bigger problem. Laws like the recent EU will have their biggest impact over time through a change in culture. When the balance tips from "it's easy to get and keep" to "what the heck do I need this data for? it's a potential liability", that's when the change happens.

So, not surprising you don't see an immediate change in corporate behaviour. Culture changes take time to evolve. Right now, the easiest path is to do what you have been doing and try to fit that into the specifics of the law. Bigger changes will happen more slowly over time, as younger people move into IT and HR and Compliance roles, and then into Director and C-Suite roles, with a different world view on when and how to collect and keep data.

But go ahead and make a stink now. Change happens faster when there's a wave of customer complaints.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Umm...

https://www.take2games.com/privacy/

This Privacy Policy applies to the Company's Online Services, websites, mobile applications, and other services that link to it or display it. In addition, the Company may also own several other domain names that relate to its labels, feature its products, or point to its websites, and we may from time to time add new sites and services.

Please note that this Privacy Policy applies only to information submitted and collected online through the Online Services, and does not apply to information that may be collected by the Company offline. In addition, this Privacy Policy does not apply to websites or services maintained by other companies or organizations (such as those who promote the Company's products and services or sell related items) and the Company cannot and does not guarantee the security of any personal information disclosed to those third parties. In addition, please note that we may hire vendors (agents or contractors) to collect personal information on our behalf and in such cases such vendors will be instructed to comply with this Privacy Policy. These vendors may not use your personal information for their own marketing purposes.

We use the third-party service providers as our online official re-seller and for certain in-game sales functions
.

But I'm using it through Steam?

WHAT PERSONAL AND OTHER INFORMATION DOES THE COMPANY COLLECT?

Personal information is information that identifies you and that may be used to contact you online or offline. The Company collects personal information from you on a voluntary basis. When you submit personal information to the Company, it will usually take the form of:

Registration for Online Services, websites, jobs, products, contests, and special events;

Subscribing to newsletters or alerts;

Posting in or commenting on our message boards, forums, news blogs, chat rooms, or other Online Services;

Purchasing a product or services through our online stores;

Purchasing downloadable content, virtual items, or virtual currency for use with our software and/or Online Services;

Using "tell a friend," "email this page," or other E-Card features;

Requesting technical support;

Downloading demos, programs, or other software;

Participating in polls, surveys, and questionnaires; or

Cuz it's sorta needed to work? lol.

Tl;dr stop linking stuff out of context and freaking out.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Laws like the recent EU will have their biggest impact over time through a change in culture. When the balance tips from "it's easy to get and keep" to "what the heck do I need this data for? it's a potential liability", that's when the change happens.

Agreed.

 

[Archaelicos]

How many lawyers do we have in here?? Good golly.

Well, I'll throw my hat in. I too am a lawyer but I do intellectual property and generally stay out of privacy law. It's funny, privacy used to be basically the Brandeis torts, and it was thought of as basically a branch of IP because of the right of publicity. Now there's this whole other branch of regulatory privacy law to deal with. I keep thinking we'll see a national privacy act at some point that works basically the same way as the Lanham Act but with expedited take-down proceedings like the DMCA has.

 

[blackbutterfly]

TBH I was more upset over the Poundmaker ruckus. I'm quite keen on indigenous rights esp. w.r.t. the legal principle of cultural IP.

I find it very annoying how capitalism still manages to exploit the indigenous. Even now when there's pretty much nothing left to plunder but memories...that's also being exploited by 2K for profit. The Cree nation see nothing. (And seriously, indigenous peoples around the world need every excuse for help).

But it's taken the EULA to inflame most gamers. I was already there

The relentless onslaught of "the chop" IRL

 

[Leyrann]

Oh noes. A (positive) portrayal of a native american civilization in a video game. The exploitation. The colonialism. The racism.

 

[blackbutterfly]

OT:

Oh noes. A (positive) portrayal of a native american civilization in a video game. The exploitation. The colonialism. The racism.

It's not how you perceive it, it's about how The Cree Nation perceive it. Their headman Tootoosis clearly said in his opinion Poundmaker in Civ VI was not.

Still no respect for other peoples!? SMH

Re: OP

They did it like this before - getting any info they can and giving/selling it to whoever they like. What's new is the law in the EU that doesn't allow it anymore. However, if you explicitly agree (like you do with this EULA), they can still do it.

Actually GDPR requires 2K to make the agreement to selling our data a separate checkbox or something AFAIK. I don't recall 2K's EULA requesting permission to sell our data. (Also I don't see anywhere in the EULA that says they want to sell the data).

Really, this is a non-issue altogether.

IMO Civ gamers are disenfranchised with Civ VI and it's manifested on this issue. As I said before, it's fine by me cos I feel that way too. But mostly it's the insensitivity over The Cree nations Poundmaker. 2K is turning into EA little by little.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Oh noes. A (positive) portrayal of a native american civilization in a video game. The exploitation. The colonialism. The racism.

Who gets to decide if it's a "positive" portrayal? Speaking on behalf of another group and deciding what's good for them doesn't always lead to the best results. The point of engagement is to understand whether the portrayed group feels like they are being represented appropriately.

Considering the systematic steps my country took to wipe out Cree culture in my lifetime (see residential school system tragedy), is it not somewhat understandable that they would have liked someone to talk to them first? This isn't the Netherlands, or Russia, or America - it's a group that has continually had "who they are" in popular perception defined by others, and getting some influence over that is a broad objective of North American indigenous peoples generally right now.

 

[criZp]

Who gets to decide if it's a "positive" portrayal?

Everyone get to decide that, because they are portrayed as a friendly and peaceful group of people.

Moderator Action: Let's keep this conversation to the original topic - Take 2's EULA - please. --Noble Zarkon

 

[Leyrann]

It's not how you perceive it, it's about how The Cree Nation perceive it. Their headman Tootoosis clearly said in his opinion Poundmaker in Civ VI was not.

And did the Netherlands get to choose about being included? Did England get to choose about being included? Did Georgia get to choose about being included? Should I list the other 30-some civs or can I stop?

Considering the systematic steps my country took to wipe out Cree culture in my lifetime (see residential school system tragedy), is it not somewhat understandable that they would have liked someone to talk to them first? This isn't the Netherlands, or Russia, or America - it's a group that has continually had "who they are" in popular perception defined by others, and getting some influence over that is a broad objective of North American indigenous peoples generally right now.

Are you implying Civilization is trying to wipe out Cree culture? I would argue that Firaxis, for every civ they include, always tries to celebrate their culture and achievements, which is the exact opposite.

 

[SkyknightXi]

And did the Netherlands get to choose about being included? Did England get to choose about being included? Did Georgia get to choose about being included? Should I list the other 30-some civs or can I stop?



Are you implying Civilization is trying to wipe out Cree culture? I would argue that Firaxis, for every civ they include, always tries to celebrate their culture and achievements, which is the exact opposite.

Most of the other civilizations have had a lot of exposure in popular culture, politics, et al. The Cree (and, for that matter, Mapuche) seem to be a different story. Especially considering America and Canada's past tendencies to try to dispel the First Nations' cultures; not sure what modern Chile has been like. I don't have C6 yet (I entered this forum to see what the general consensus was; I'm not sure how much of the "mixed" rating on Steam has to do with the EULA situation), but I do worry about what the motivation for including the Cree was, especially after reading what Blackbutterfly had to say. Admittedly, if I were including a north-of-Mexico First Nations culture, my first impulse would have been the Mississippians (q.v. Cahokia).

Blackbutterfly: Just to be sure, what do you mean by "disenfranchised"? I'm not terribly familiar with the term, and you seem to be implying that the situations with the EULA and the Cree are only facets of it.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Moderator Action: Please get the conversation back on topic or it will be closed --NobleZarkon
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[blackbutterfly]

Blackbutterfly: Just to be sure, what do you mean by "disenfranchised"? I'm not terribly familiar with the term, and you seem to be implying that the situations with the EULA and the Cree are only facets of it.

Wrong word. Soz.

I meant discontent. Disillusioned. Dissatisfaction. Disaffection. Etc.

Another thing about 2K's data collection and the GDPR is that I wonder how long 2K will be allowed to keep our data?

Customers of 2K games like Civ VI buy the game but may stop using it at some point. So when by law will 2K have to remove the data of UK & EU customers?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

This has not done anything to raise my relatively low respect for them.

Still, what's the purpose of keeping some of this data/requiring it for users to play? It's not some age restricted product or something with atypical liability in use. If they were distributing alcohol or something it would make sense to ensure they're giving it to people who can legally consume it, but for video games rated for basically everyone?

I know this extends to other companies too, but given how security is breached even in major companies year to year what's the incentive to keep taking this data? Are they making $$$ off it to justify the potential liability?

 

[ThunderLizard2]

OK after reading this thread I'm more confused than before. So can 2K take/sell personal data or not? And if you refuse to give them the right to use your data can they prevent you from using a game you already paid for because they modified the EULA?

 

[Chefofrats]

if you refuse to give them the right to use your data can they prevent you from using a game you already paid for because they modified the EULA?

If you're in the EU, no, pretty much.

 

[blackbutterfly]

OK after reading this thread I'm more confused than before. So can 2K take/sell personal data or not?

That's two separate issues.

Yes, they can collect data. GDPR doesn't prevent that. We agreed to that in 2K's terms & conditions EULA.

Can 2K sell our personal info? Absolutely not. They could've separately asked permission from us (UK & EU citizens) to do that but they didn't. If they sell data that belongs to us they break the law.

 

[Archon_Wing]

OK after reading this thread I'm more confused than before. So can 2K take/sell personal data or not? And if you refuse to give them the right to use your data can they prevent you from using a game you already paid for because they modified the EULA?

When you use products or services on internet-capable hardware, the Company may receive information regarding your gameplay without any additional notice to you or actions taken by you. The Company will not receive personal information such as your name and address, but may receive other information such as a console ID, gaming service ID, game achievements, game scores and performance, IP address, MAC address, or other device ID, other console/device use information, or other information and statistics regarding your usage of the games.

They can use your personal information if you give it to them, if you do one of these things:

Personal information is information that identifies you and that may be used to contact you online or offline. The Company collects personal information from you on a voluntary basis. When you submit personal information to the Company, it will usually take the form of:

Registration for Online Services, websites, jobs, products, contests, and special events;

Subscribing to newsletters or alerts;

Posting in or commenting on our message boards, forums, news blogs, chat rooms, or other Online Services;

Purchasing a product or services through our online stores;

Purchasing downloadable content, virtual items, or virtual currency for use with our software and/or Online Services;

Using "tell a friend," "email this page," or other E-Card features;

Requesting technical support;

Downloading demos, programs, or other software;

Participating in polls, surveys, and questionnaires[

Otherwise through use of our software, including console products, mobile products, and personal computer products, and through the use of our online products or Online Services where personal information is required for use and/or participation.

People are just making a big deal over nothing. It seems like the personal information is gathered through their own newsletters, forums, and support. Stuff that requires your personal information to work to begin with. The quoted text in OP is deliberately spliced to make it more ominous than it sounds because whoever did it first knew that people don't read anyways. But if anything this should be a lesson to not mindlessly click agree to everything I guess.