Bowsling
Deity
I dunno... I'm getting kinda Borda this... 
Team CFC Constitution
- Thread starter talonschild
- Start date
YossarianLives
Deity
Haha, good one! Your genious wordplay reminds me we also still need to figure out our naming scheme.
Regarding the voting method, I like Borda, with all its implications. I even like what Socralynnek did. I could see myself in a situation where I know that the more experienced team members are probably right, but I still want to express my opinion without having it weigh as heavily as those that might know better what they are talking about.
Regarding the voting method, I like Borda, with all its implications. I even like what Socralynnek did. I could see myself in a situation where I know that the more experienced team members are probably right, but I still want to express my opinion without having it weigh as heavily as those that might know better what they are talking about.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
In my case, it was strategic move to empower my first choice, realizing that any second/third choice lessens my first's weight.
Doing so, I though SIP will be the clear winner anyway.I will definitely keep playing, as giving up a game is not my in my stile. Actually I dont remember doing so a single time, whether I have taken deserted civs many times and trying to do my best against those odds. The win is important, but the road to there is more valuable in my opinion. Especially in games where no RL necessities are involved
Now I feel ashamed not to have voted for North Pole (and maybe the South Pole and Moon to boot) as almost everybody on this board probably has more experience at multiplayer and/or micromanaging a good start than me!
Maybe now it is a bit more clear why two weeks ago I tried to push forward the discussion about our decision making method. In my experience if these things are not agreed upon, confusion ensues. Recent example is not an exception Now there are three main things I think we need to decide:
1. What issues will be decided by vote and what will not?
2. How do we decide the votes?
3. How do we reach a decision on non-voteable things?
My preference on point 1 is that we vote as little as possible. Voting takes time and does not give an optimal solution for many issues (e.g. it would be really silly to vote on worker actions or other micro).
For second point, I still strongly support preferential voting. Though I must admit that unrestricted Borda might not be the best one. Though I appreciate the flexibility and simplicity it has, I can see the concerns people have with this. There is also a potential for confusion using Borda might give. So my next suggestion is that we'd try Instant-runoff Voting (IRV). Voting happens exactly as it does with Borda, i.e. single preferential lists of as many candidates as preferred. Counting the votes however is different and constitutes possibly of several rounds. On the first round only each number 1 vote is counted as single vote. If there is a majority (50 % or more of given votes) that is the winner. If there is no majority, the candidate with least votes is dropped out. Now if voters first candidate is dropped out, the second canditate gets that voters vote. Dropping out the candidates continues until a candidate has majority of votes. This voting mechanism does not have same problem with voting for second candidate harming your first candidate Borda vote has.
For the part three I do not really see any other option than letting the selected officials to reach the decision by themselves. This reminds me that we still have not officially selected any officials. We have a nice list of volunteers, but I for one don't feel I'm working with mandate of the team, until we make the selections official.
Now there are three main things I think we need to decide:1. What issues will be decided by vote and what will not?
2. How do we decide the votes?
3. How do we reach a decision on non-voteable things?
My preference on point 1 is that we vote as little as possible. Voting takes time and does not give an optimal solution for many issues (e.g. it would be really silly to vote on worker actions or other micro).
For second point, I still strongly support preferential voting. Though I must admit that unrestricted Borda might not be the best one. Though I appreciate the flexibility and simplicity it has, I can see the concerns people have with this. There is also a potential for confusion using Borda might give. So my next suggestion is that we'd try Instant-runoff Voting (IRV). Voting happens exactly as it does with Borda, i.e. single preferential lists of as many candidates as preferred. Counting the votes however is different and constitutes possibly of several rounds. On the first round only each number 1 vote is counted as single vote. If there is a majority (50 % or more of given votes) that is the winner. If there is no majority, the candidate with least votes is dropped out. Now if voters first candidate is dropped out, the second canditate gets that voters vote. Dropping out the candidates continues until a candidate has majority of votes. This voting mechanism does not have same problem with voting for second candidate harming your first candidate Borda vote has.
For the part three I do not really see any other option than letting the selected officials to reach the decision by themselves. This reminds me that we still have not officially selected any officials. We have a nice list of volunteers, but I for one don't feel I'm working with mandate of the team, until we make the selections official.
YossarianLives
Deity
Thanks Aivoturso for trying to organize this unruly team! I also want to thank 2metra and Sommers for being Captains of this team and stepping in when we have trouble reaching a decisive conclusion. Here's my personal opinion on the items that Aivoturso raises:
1. We should nominate one person (talonschild? or Aivoturso?) to call a vote whenever we need to make a big decision, such as city locations, tech path, or who to ally with. Small decisions, such as scouting path and city micro, don't need a vote, but should still receive input from the team.
2. I like any voting system that allows us to put forth multiple options. I liked the Borda system, and the strategy behind how to vote.
3. For non-voteable items, the turn-player should make those decisions after hearing input from other team members. In fact, I am ok with this outcome on most matters, even the ones that get a vote. If the turnplayer/captain/more experienced members strongly feel that a close vote goes against our team's best interest, I have no problem with them doing what they think is best.
1. We should nominate one person (talonschild? or Aivoturso?) to call a vote whenever we need to make a big decision, such as city locations, tech path, or who to ally with. Small decisions, such as scouting path and city micro, don't need a vote, but should still receive input from the team.
2. I like any voting system that allows us to put forth multiple options. I liked the Borda system, and the strategy behind how to vote.
3. For non-voteable items, the turn-player should make those decisions after hearing input from other team members. In fact, I am ok with this outcome on most matters, even the ones that get a vote. If the turnplayer/captain/more experienced members strongly feel that a close vote goes against our team's best interest, I have no problem with them doing what they think is best.
I think we should have these roles, and there should be at least a confirmation vote for the people who hold them. In old demogames we used private polls so there is no backlash against dissenters.
Leader (President, Prime Minister, ??) -- Organizes decisions and breaks ties. Keeps things moving.
Turn Players (need primary and backups)
Chief Diplomat (organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts)
Leader (President, Prime Minister, ??) -- Organizes decisions and breaks ties. Keeps things moving.
Turn Players (need primary and backups)
Chief Diplomat (organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts)
RegentMan
Deity
I like that setup. Only a couple of necessary roles for efficiency. We could do "elections" every X turns/months, or keep them until resignation.
Caledorn
Emperor
Arkipeller
Ancient of Lore
Leader(President, Prime Minister, ??) -- Organizes decisions and breaks ties. Keeps things moving.
Second in command (Title?) - Helps with Leader chores, responsible for organization of votes and elections.
Minister of Internal Affairs (main turn player)+ Turn Players ( backups). Does the turns and manages small decisions when they arise.
Foreign Minister (Chief Diplomat) (organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts) Keeps track of alliances and threats. Gives suggestions/ start debates when large possibilities arise between foreign powers or us: Should be able to give pros/cons when questions of alliances/wars arises.
Council of Secrets (Demohackers): Keeps track of enemies in every way possible every turn. Should be keeping facts at bay in case they are needed for council. Should be able to give pros/cons when questions of alliances/wars arises. Manages how spy-points is distributed.
---------
Elections
Electible titles: Leader, Second in command, Minister of Internal Affairs and Foreign Minister
Votes is triggered if 6 players ( of total 24) wishes to vote over a position. Votes are done anonymously, so there will be no bad blood between players. Organizer of polls and elections ( second in command) remains silent when asked about who wished for the elections. When a position-election is done, the claimant can not be challenged for xx (20+) turns.
Second in command (Title?) - Helps with Leader chores, responsible for organization of votes and elections.
Minister of Internal Affairs (main turn player)+ Turn Players ( backups). Does the turns and manages small decisions when they arise.
Foreign Minister (Chief Diplomat) (organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts) Keeps track of alliances and threats. Gives suggestions/ start debates when large possibilities arise between foreign powers or us: Should be able to give pros/cons when questions of alliances/wars arises.
Council of Secrets (Demohackers): Keeps track of enemies in every way possible every turn. Should be keeping facts at bay in case they are needed for council. Should be able to give pros/cons when questions of alliances/wars arises. Manages how spy-points is distributed.
---------
Elections
Electible titles: Leader, Second in command, Minister of Internal Affairs and Foreign Minister
Votes is triggered if 6 players ( of total 24) wishes to vote over a position. Votes are done anonymously, so there will be no bad blood between players. Organizer of polls and elections ( second in command) remains silent when asked about who wished for the elections. When a position-election is done, the claimant can not be challenged for xx (20+) turns.
YossarianLives
Deity
I like this, we're getting somewhere! Can I put forward some nominations?
Leader: Sommerswerd, 2metraninja
2nd in Command (Hand of the King): Sommerswerd, 2metraninja, Aivoturso (for organizing things), talonschild (for getting the votes moving)
Turnplayer (Minister of Internal Affairs): 2metraninja, Caledorn, cav scout, Aivoturso, DaveShack
Chief Diplomat (Foreign Minister): Caledorn (There are others who have volunteered to help with diplo, but I don't think anyone else wanted the chief role)
Caledorn
Emperor
I would prefer to do take the head role of diplomacy (provided people want me there), and just be a reserve for the other departments. Until we start diplomacy fullscale though, I can do the demographics screenshots on a turn-wise basis.
Caledorn
Emperor
Just for good measures: I hope everyone is okay with me logging in to do the demo-screenshot and stuff every turn until we have a more formal agreement on who will rotate on these roles. I will not touch anything else (as I am not a turnplayer) - just take screenshots and log out.
Just for good measures: I hope everyone is okay with me logging in to do the demo-screenshot and stuff every turn until we have a more formal agreement on who will rotate on these roles. I will not touch anything else (as I am not a turnplayer) - just take screenshots and log out.
I can start doing turn logging at some point. I have still to install the mod touhg. Nice to see you taking the initiative.
Caledorn
Emperor
How are we coming along with this? We need to get a consensus on this soon.
Edit: I'm enjoying the screenshot part/turnlogger/backup turnplayer far more than I thought, so I think I'd like to offer my services there as well!
YossarianLives
Deity
Does anybody else want to throw their hat in the ring before voting starts? Should we set a deadline to start voting, maybe 48 or 72 hours from now? Any amendments to the descriptions of the positions that DaveShack and Arkipeller suggested?
I'd say barring any further input, we should start anonymous voting within 72 hours, and let the elections run over the weekend.
I'd say barring any further input, we should start anonymous voting within 72 hours, and let the elections run over the weekend.
I'm willing to guide decision making -- surprised you didn't pick up on that. 
YossarianLives
Deity
Things are going smoothly now, and it's easy to forget about these details that seem most important when we reach an impasse, but let's keep this ball rolling. We're about 12 hours from my suggested time to start the votes, so if anyone wants their name added/removed from the nominations, now is the time to speak!
Leader(President, Prime Minister, King) - Organizes decisions and breaks ties. Keeps things moving.
Sommerswerd, 2metraninja, DaveShack
Second in Command (Hand of the King) - Helps with Leader chores, responsible for organization of votes and elections.
Sommerswerd, 2metraninja, DaveShack, Aivoturso, Talonschild
Turnplayer / Turnlogger (Minister of Internal Affairs) - Does the turns and manages small decisions when they arise.
2metraninja, Caledorn, cav scout, Aivoturso, DaveShack
Chief Diplomat (Foreign Minister) - Assigns Ambassadors, organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts. Keeps track of alliances and threats.
Caledorn
Now, I've never posted a poll before, and will actually be really busy for the next two days, so I'm not sure how well I could put a vote together. If there are any other volunteers to actually do that legwork, I would be much obliged.
Leader(President, Prime Minister, King) - Organizes decisions and breaks ties. Keeps things moving.
Sommerswerd, 2metraninja, DaveShack
Second in Command (Hand of the King) - Helps with Leader chores, responsible for organization of votes and elections.
Sommerswerd, 2metraninja, DaveShack, Aivoturso, Talonschild
Turnplayer / Turnlogger (Minister of Internal Affairs) - Does the turns and manages small decisions when they arise.
2metraninja, Caledorn, cav scout, Aivoturso, DaveShack
Chief Diplomat (Foreign Minister) - Assigns Ambassadors, organizes foreign policy, steps in if ambassadors aren't on top of their contacts. Keeps track of alliances and threats.
Caledorn
Now, I've never posted a poll before, and will actually be really busy for the next two days, so I'm not sure how well I could put a vote together. If there are any other volunteers to actually do that legwork, I would be much obliged.
YossarianLives
Deity
Actually, Sommerswerd is out of town with limited contact for the next week, so maybe it's not a good time to hold a vote where he is up for leader and second in command. I'm now thinking it might be best to put this off one more week, maybe vote next weekend. Any objections to this?
Caledorn
Emperor
I think it would be polite to wait for Sommer to return, so no objections from me at least.
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