Team Piffle

[Kuningas]

Banking is required for Replaceable Parts. Try to get it but do not give them any gold.

 

[BCLG100]

Yeah but innovia already have it, i'd much prefer we give innovia or even loco things for it than piffle.

 

[Robi D]

Had my chat with killercane

casey j says:
Robi whats up
Rob says:
hi casey, not to much having a quite night, how bout you?
casey j says:
not much having lunch, i think im eating the worst hamburger i have ever tasted
Rob says:
lol
casey j says:
did you get my message?
Rob says:
yes i did
Rob says:
i was just looking at the save before the timing is prefect i'm up to date
casey j says:
cool do you want to discuss? or are you going to bed? (its late for you isnt it?)
Rob says:
i'll be up for a while yet so its ok
Rob says:
i had an afternoon nap so i'm fully awake
casey j says:
hah excellent
Rob says:
just like a granpa
Rob says:
well going on your message you guys were interested in a techs for gold deal
casey j says:
yeah, and i think we connected wines this turn so wines for dyes can work too
Rob says:
ok cool that hadn't showed up in the save yet
Rob says:
as for the techs we have divine right that we can offer, are you guys interested in that
casey j says:
probably not
casey j says:
are you getting anything we dont have soon?
casey j says:
back in a sec
Rob says:
no not really, we are nearly done with MT at the moment
Rob says:
ok no probs
casey j says:
back
casey j says:
what about gunpowder for cossacks?
casey j says:
we can offer that i think
Rob says:
we have gunpowder sorted out, we outsourced the research
Rob says:
but after MT we should have something for you within 10 turns
casey j says:
what else do we have to offer, PP, Lib?
casey j says:
ah astro too
Rob says:
we are interested in PP
Rob says:
sorry i'm just looking at the tech chart
Rob says:
the in game one is a lot easier to follow
Rob says:
huh what do you know i just found an error in the printed chart
casey j says:
?
casey j says:
maybe its from an old unpatched version
Rob says:
they have corporation listed twice and constitution isn't in it
casey j says:
the one online
casey j says:
hmm that interesting
Rob says:
no the printed one that came in the box
casey j says:
ah
Rob says:
i was trying to find the tech prices
casey j says:
i look at the one on cfc when i need to look at something, god knows i dont have all these techs memorized
Rob says:
just a sec i'll check in the game, brb
casey j says:
ok cool
casey j says:
what do you want to offer for PP?
Rob says:
ok back
Rob says:
after MT we are doing constitution
Rob says:
does that interest you guys or are you doing it already
casey j says:
i dont know i think we are doing it already
casey j says:
engineering would be nice
casey j says:
it goes const-> rifling right?
casey j says:
maybe PP for a lump sum maybe?
Rob says:
engineering? i think everyone has that
Rob says:
ok well how much gold would you want for PP outright
casey j says:
hmm what is tech cost?
Rob says:
in the game its 2288
Rob says:
base cost is 1200
casey j says:
something like 75% of tech cost or something?
casey j says:
1500?
casey j says:
i dont really know
Rob says:
thats ok, at least i have a ballpark figure to give the team
casey j says:
i guess 1500 is about 2/3 cost, and its a nice even number
casey j says:
and what about wines for dyes?
Rob says:
we hadn't discussed that since we didn't know about the wines so i'll need to double check with the team on that one
Rob says:
but personally i think that should be ok
casey j says:
alright, so tentatively 1500 gold for PP and wines for dyes (all to be discussed). when would you want delivery of PP? how soon can you have the gold?
Rob says:
don't know exactly but if everyone is happy with the deal then it would be around 7 or 8 turns from now
casey j says:
alright good deal then. was there anything else or do we need to just check on what everyone says?
Rob says:
i think that is everything we can trade at the moment
Rob says:
i should get back to you before the next turn

When then chatted about some other stuff for a bit.

So there you go. I know we have no interest in paying piffle anything but i was just trying to weed out as much info as possible out of them.

It seems they are or Epsilon are doing Constitution, no doubt the other half of their research is focused on getting rifleing.

So what do we think of wines for dyes? I know we said no trading of happiness in the deal with Innovia but then i don't recall them saying anything about planning to attack Loco.

Anyway i wouldn't mind lulling them into a false sense of security just before we strike

 

[Robi D]

Hello?

Any thoughts, do we trade wines for dyes or not?

 

[GeorgeOP]

Can we try stalling them? Can we trade it to anyone else?

Piffle has a larger empire, iirc, so any resource trades are going to help them build units more than it will help us. Unless we're within 10 turns of attacking, I don't think we should do this. If another team has the ability to take our resource, we should make the two teams increase their offers. It will give the appearance of wanting to trade with Piffle without actually giving them anything.

 

[BCLG100]

we dont really need wines at all from memory, the only big city that might need it is the capital which already has the globe.

 

[Robi D]

I was suggesting more as a way to make Piffle think we are not going to attack them rather than any particular need for them

 

[BCLG100]

Yeah, but then the giving them happy will only benefit them in games turns, maybe we should just try and keep up the chatter?

 

[Robi D]

Ok, i will employ some time wasting tactics in telling them no deal

 

[robboo]

use the "factions" of our team as another delay tactic. I posted to that effect on the Pineapple thread.

 

[killercane]

Ok thats all a bit odd. Here are my thoughts in no specific order

1. First off killercane breaks the most basic rule of diplomacy in promising something thats not his to promise. Every should know if you need team approval for a deal to say that is the case. In effect its dropped us in the s*** because we went to make trades based on his remarks with Innovia.

2. Given their desire to get rid of epsilon, why is the team against a trade that helps them. We did not offer the trade to them, they (cane and whomp) offered it to us in our talks (me with whomp and BC with cane)

3. I could be misreading it but i didn't like their tone, like it is our fault they are lagging tech wise. They could have traded with epsilon at any stage but didn't want to and epsilon has outplayed them and gotten ahead in techs. Now they seem to be resentful of us because we traded with our neighbours, so they now think its our responsibility to bring them up to speed at our cost, and not just over a couple of tech deals but in this one.

4. Without knowing the map, given piffle are the first ones to have met epsilon means they are the closest to them and therefore stand the most to gain out of their demise, so if we are going to give them techs and military help what is in it for us, so far they haven't offered anything that we could get from Innovia.

5. I surprise that as a team they were unaware that you can build maces with copper I mean how hard is it to check?

6. We are being very generous with the above deal, it would help them catch up at least half the tech they are behind, yet they are still unsure and somewhat unhappy.

Given all that i'm not really sure the deal is in our best interests, because to take a leap of faith on Piffle is a bit difficult for me given their attitude, i can't help but feel that we will somehow get burnt in the end.

Ya know this is funny. You guys kept getting mad at our cooperation with epsilon (which contributed to their win for sure), but we had very little cooperation from you guys but especially not Innovia. Lets look at Robi's points:

1. If you reread post #48 above (me talking to Simon) I said I would talk to the team TWICE about the proposed deal. I still dont know how you guys went ahead and traded whatever when we never agreed? Why gripe at Piffle?
2. Dont know anything about; I thought it was a good trade but got nixed for god knows what.
3. True! But we did trade with Epsilon, they just had more contacts and traded more...
4. We offered land split of Epsilon in an attack.
5. Im dumb.
6. Again that was a team thing, we proposed the deal but there was no follow up and you guys got angry for no reason, see #1 above.

If you read our forum we wanted to get a coalition against Epsilon the whole darn game, but you and Innovia would never get on board. Ya cant blame us for dealing with Epsilon as they were the only ones who would trade with us!

Edit: 3 times I said I had to see what the team wanted!
casey j says:
i posted that in the forums, we will see what the team says
Simon says:
that'd leave us about 100 beakers in your debt i think
casey j says:
hmm let me see what the team thinks
casey j says:
let me get some feedback and i will track you down and we can get this done