Tech Spreading

[CYZ]

I think that a 2-10% (depending on total number of civs) decrease in the amount of s after each civ discovers a tech would be sufficient. Civ4 does this, although to a lesser extent.

It wouldn't enable small empires to get techs first, but it would make-up (some of) the gap between large and small empires. It's also much simpler. And although it's a game and it doesn't really matter, it is realistic.

Agree with this. Depending on the amount of civs who have the tech the cost becomes lower. However I would also suggest to make it even lower if other civs also have the tech that comes after it.

For example: You don't have pottery
You pay standard if nobody has it
You get a discount for every civ that has it
You get an additional discount for every civ that has either calendar, sailing or writing.

This allows civs who are more than just a bit behind to catch up better.

Also, I believe you should only recieve discounts for known civs. This will create typical old world/new world situations, both realistic and improving game diversity.

Perhaps a total of 15% discount should be possible. 10% if you've met all civs and they all have the technology. Another 5% if they all have a following technology. So if either half of the total civs have the tech or you've only met half and everyone has the tech you get 5% (and 2.5% if they also have a following tech).


If anybody could mod this I'd be really happy.

 

[ShahJahanII]

You started by saying smaller nations are often more technologically advanced than much larger ones.
To balance this out you could just make research costs go up with number of cities?
Not as fast as social policies, but just enough so that you can still be a small Empire and better with research than larger ones.

 

[DeathFace]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet(I kind of just skimmed) but let's say I'm playing as Babylon and I keep getting free techs though great scientists and I'm getting a science boost from a couple academies in my capital. Would techs eventually get a little backeduped?

 

[Cruel]

Here are some good ideas, the problem is the programming part.

 

[Zeropoint]

How about a basic version of this great idea.

Use the highest science rated city in your empire as the discovering city.

Spreading method would be using a list of all your cities science output from highest to lowest. u could use two different methods.
1. One turn each to descend through list, with annexed cities taking two and puppet cities three.
2. using trade routes, roads and communication techs. eg, city with all three getting tech spread in one turn with a limit of three cities each turn working down your cities science output list in batches. Any city with roads and communication techs taking two turns. and finally three turns ( default ) for any city without the above.

imho, using this method any large civ would have to take more consideration of science output, infrastructure and out of the way techs (not tech rush military).

Finally u could use a combination of both methods.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Nice idea, but I would make some modifications :

* unconnected cities would profit from tech spreading. (depending on the topography between it and the empire : if there are mountains between them, then the tech spreading would be very slow or inexistant)

* There would be a tech characteristic as to the own condictivity of the tech. For example, some agricultural improvments in the Middle Age existed, but have not be adopted massively from the start. It depends on the nature of the tech. I guess each techs would have their diffusion characteristic that improves or hinders diffusion.

 

[Cyon]

I think that there is to different suggestions here: a.) internal tech spreading inside your empire as a nerf for large badly connected empires that just spam cities, and b.) tech diffusion/tech spreading between civilizations, so not every civilization have to re-invent the wheel separate from each other.

I think both suggestions are great! the first one seams a bit complicated but this is a computer game, so we don't actually have to make all that math ourselves, as long as the information is communicated in clear way via some new interface. A think that printing press should really make a huge difference to tech spreading, maybe postal service and Print workshop could be to new buildings that would spread techs faster (and also give you a culture bonus depending on the culture of your other cites).

I agree with Naokaukodems suggestion that different techs could spread differently, maybe divide the techs in categoires: Militaristic (which spread is incresed with barracs, and which is harder to steal), construction/agricultural/production techs which spread faster with workshos and such, and culural techs which spread faster with cultural buildings. or somthing like that.

I think that the to science buildings University and Public school could be more different, with University increasing the chance of a new tech being discovered and gives more specialsit slots, and Public school increasing the tech spread and gives a procentage bonus on great scinetis points but no points itself, and neither building should require the other.

But I think b.) - tech spreading between civs are the most important factor that is missing in the game. It is just very strange that everyone needs to invent everything from zero. I think that NukeAJS and CYZ have a lot of good sugestions. If this could be included in a coming second expansion where international trade agreements and trade routes would be a part, so should those international trade routes in my opinon be a huge factor together with geographical closeness.

And why stop at a small 15% bonus? What about +1% for every civ you met that have a that tech, +2% for a civ that you share borders with or have a trade route to, +3% if you have a trade agreement and the "free thought(?)" SP (the one that gives you beakers on the TP), and additionally +2% for civs that you have a embassy, with +0,5% bonus for every following tech (every, not just one of the following) to a maxumum of 30% for techs in the era you currently in, 50% for one era ago (maybe bot a higher cap and a 10% bonus), 75% for techs two eras ago (+15% bonus). So if a civ that you have a trade agreement with and a embassy haves a tech you would get +5%, if that civ would have reseached additionally 3 techs that is dependent on that tech would you get +6,5% from that civ, which could add up to a lot

This should of balance with higher tech costs, the internal spread req, and some kind of new bonuses to civ's that research something first. Maybe a 10 turn +10% strength bonus to all units of the that kind that new tech unlocks for the first to discover a certain tech, and some kind of production bonus for buildings and wonders (+5% for 20 turns maybe?)

an other idea would be to introduce corporations in a new expansion and being the first to research something be requirement, so if you research combustion first and have a lot of steel and oil would you have the chance to form a auto company and receive a nice bonus and a few of the unique luxury resource "automobiles" which you then could trade away a nice profit.

Maybe you could even research some techs twice/ have techs that is detours and can only be researched by one or a few, so when you have research pottery would you have the chance to research advanced pottery (which would be a dead end, not taking you a inch closer to alpha centary) and then be able to build a maxumum of three porclain workshop, and it could give you a +1 food bonus on grannarys.

Whops that is a lot of brainstorming and badly made up numbers, I guess the what I want to say is that both internal (as a negative modifier) and external (as a positive modifier) is good ideas, and if science would be less of a one man race in vacuum and more dependent on geographic and diplomacy. It could also be interesting if you could specialize your self more (by researching "advanced pottery") as a tempting choice that forces you to give up space race for other bonuses, or shorter term races to be the first one to get the +10% strength musket mans.

 

[Ghonasiflaids]

Agreed.

 

[GenjiKhan]

@Cyon Interesting suggestions from you and everybody . But to this idea to be successful implemented,there should be somethings before,like:

- An Improved religion system,which already exists in G&K expansion;
- A more developed system of International Commerce(with a proper addition of Corporations,as already mentioned by Cyon) ;
- A more developed Diplomatic system,where the relationships between the players affect the tech spreading;
- A tech tree more fragmented from Rennaisance era and beyond;

Or

- Something like a "exclusive" technology,which can only be researched by one civ and all the other civs can only get this kind of technology,either through Tech Spreading or Tech Stealing(one example of "exclusive technology" is the technology of "Paper" and "Gunpowder");

What do you think about it?

You started by saying smaller nations are often more technologically advanced than much larger ones.
To balance this out you could just make research costs go up with number of cities?
Not as fast as social policies, but just enough so that you can still be a small Empire and better with research than larger ones.

It's a simple,but an unrealistic solution . Take China,for example,which lead technology research for more than 2000 years and it was only overhauled in Renaissance era .

 

[nokmirt]

Meh, I don't think this is not the best idea. This part of the game should be left in the traditional way. Spreading religion I could see, but spreading tech little by little across your empire just seems unneeded. I could see perhaps having certain buildings which can build only certain units.

I can see it now. Dammit! My outlying cities are about to be invaded by the Huns. Even though I have had ironed mined for several turns, I cannot build swordsmen, because my tech has not spread like herpes yet. Dammit!

This would just be frustrating IMO! Nice try though.