That's what my new EraInfos changes will do, currently it does this to a certain extent, but after Friday if you are in a later era your research rate will be much more noticably slower, especially from Classical to Medieval and Medieval to Renaissance. The other thing I'd like to see done is for Tech Diffusion to be tweaked to give more significant benefits to under-teched civs neighboring leading civs.
Tech Tree Discussion
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
That's what my new EraInfos changes will do, currently it does this to a certain extent, but after Friday if you are in a later era your research rate will be much more noticably slower, especially from Classical to Medieval and Medieval to Renaissance. The other thing I'd like to see done is for Tech Diffusion to be tweaked to give more significant benefits to under-teched civs neighboring leading civs.
Slowing the research in general will do little to keep up the challenge. The leading player will still have a technology advantage that he will use to get even more technology advantages.
Tech diffusion on the other hand will help. It might need some adjustments to the mechanics though as currently I think it does little if there is only one player that is ahead.
Not slowing in general, only as you get farther ahead in Eras. In general things will go faster, but by era they will go slower. For instance, currently in Ancient techs take 2.5 times as long to research, and in Classical they take 3 times as long to research. Under the new system the new numbers will be 3.25 for Ancient and 5 for Classical. However the gamespeeds are all going to be sped up by a factor of about 1.5 to compensate. So if you are well ahead your research will be slower compared to your neighbors. And I've been fully in favor of adjusting Tech Diffusion since the summer, so go ahead on that if you want.
Here is the final result of my Classical Era remapping. This does include moving in Taoism and moving out Andeanism. I haven't put this on SVN yet, but I will probably do so tomorrow.
View attachment 333293
I won't go into all the details of how I arranged things. It's like fitting together a giant jigsaw puzzle. I will point out that I managed to create a large number of clusters and lines in the map:
I also put in this scheme for making all technologies on a given column cost the same. This will help us if we need to add more technologies, by giving technologies that are the same difficulty the same or similar costs.
Column|Cost
X27|125
X28|150
X29|200
X30|250
X31|300
X32|400
X33|500
X34|600
Converting all the tech costs to this new scheme lowers the total base beaker cost of the Classical Era by 1.1%. I hope that doesn't mess up the era adjustments too much.
Some techs got more expensive, especially religions and Aesthetics-related techs:
Some techs, especially base techs and mounted techs, got cheaper:
I hope this is all understandable. I've come up with something similar for the eras up to the Industrial, but I will take another look at what I have done and see if it needs any revamping.
View attachment 333293
I won't go into all the details of how I arranged things. It's like fitting together a giant jigsaw puzzle. I will point out that I managed to create a large number of clusters and lines in the map:
- Judaism and Zoroastrianism are clustered together and right next to Monotheism.
- Mathematics and Geometry form a line.
- Ship Building leads right into Asatru and Meditation leads right into Buddhism.
- Monarchy - Road Building - City Planning - Canal Systems - Sanitation is a line that runs through the entire Classical Era.
- Monarchy, Iron Working, and Road Building form a cluster.
- Calendar, Astrology, and Naghualism form another cluster.
- Athletics, Hellenism, and Combat Sports form a cluster.
- Spice Trade, Drug Trade, and Ancient Medicine form a cluster.
- Meritocracy is a cluster with Confucianism and Philosophy.
- Horse Breeding, Mounted Archery, and Stirrup form a line along the bottom of the tree.
- Aesthetics and its related techs form the entire upper-right corner, including Floristry, Drama, Jainism, Mosaic Working, Music, Poetry, and Paved Roads.
- Philosophy, Taoism, and Weather Lore form a line.
- Ancient Ballistics - Siege Warfare - Machinery - Smithing forms a line (Smithing doesn't require Machinery, but it makes a good progression).
I also put in this scheme for making all technologies on a given column cost the same. This will help us if we need to add more technologies, by giving technologies that are the same difficulty the same or similar costs.
X27|125
X28|150
X29|200
X30|250
X31|300
X32|400
X33|500
X34|600
Converting all the tech costs to this new scheme lowers the total base beaker cost of the Classical Era by 1.1%. I hope that doesn't mess up the era adjustments too much.
Some techs got more expensive, especially religions and Aesthetics-related techs:
Spoiler :
Some techs, especially base techs and mounted techs, got cheaper:
Spoiler :
I hope this is all understandable. I've come up with something similar for the eras up to the Industrial, but I will take another look at what I have done and see if it needs any revamping.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
This looks really nice! Great job! I know how hard it is to rearrange the techs so my hats off to you for this.
This looks really nice! Great job! I know how hard it is to rearrange the techs so my hats off to you for this.
@Vokarya
This looks really nice! Great job! I know how hard it is to rearrange the techs so my hats off to you for this.
It is tough, but it's also kind of fun. I've got something fairly interesting in mind for the Medieval Era. I hope everyone likes it.
You might want to see what my Gamespeed and Era speed changes do to the game's progress before going through the effort to write up the Medieval changes. If you would like to do something, I would suggest looking for redundancies in the Building prereq chains now that Hydro has implemented most of Praetyre's building changes.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
ahaha you ought to try and Add 2 NON-existing era's once, talk about a nightmare, especially when one of them was the very FIRST era . .
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Yeah both the Prehistoric Era and the Galactic Era were hard to do. But every era has had something add it to them and has been altered since RoM/AND.
I also agree that it can be fun too. Like solving a jigsaw puzzle.
I also agree that it can be fun too. Like solving a jigsaw puzzle.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
@Vokarya great job on rearranging the classic era techs.
The Galactic Era STILL isn't fully implemented, and we only got done remodeling the TH era after the Azure fiasco. So there is certainly a lot more work to be done on the Tech tree by any measure.
@Vokarya:
Those changes look great, I approve of them being committed.
I'll be updating the SVN with the Classical Era changes and moving the Galactic Era backwards shortly. I also am adding four new tech quotes:
Criminology
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of the Blanched Soldier"
Critical Thought
"If a disaster of such magnitude, the most lethal ever known, was a mere wanton act of God or perhaps not God's work at all, then the absolutes of a fixed order were loosed from their moorings. Minds that opened to admit these questions could never again be shut. Once people envisioned the possibility of change in a fixed order, the end of an age of submission came in sight; the turn to individual conscience lay ahead." - Barbara Tuchman, "A Distant Mirror"
Emancipation
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." - Abraham Lincoln
Minority Rights
"Hath not a Jew eyes? ... If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" - Shylock, "The Merchant of Venice"
Let me know if there are any problems with these or if you have any other quotes to suggest. There are still about 150 techs that need their own individual quotes.
Criminology
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of the Blanched Soldier"
Critical Thought
"If a disaster of such magnitude, the most lethal ever known, was a mere wanton act of God or perhaps not God's work at all, then the absolutes of a fixed order were loosed from their moorings. Minds that opened to admit these questions could never again be shut. Once people envisioned the possibility of change in a fixed order, the end of an age of submission came in sight; the turn to individual conscience lay ahead." - Barbara Tuchman, "A Distant Mirror"
Emancipation
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." - Abraham Lincoln
Minority Rights
"Hath not a Jew eyes? ... If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" - Shylock, "The Merchant of Venice"
Let me know if there are any problems with these or if you have any other quotes to suggest. There are still about 150 techs that need their own individual quotes.
Taxman66
King
I believe the Sherlock quote is 'possible' not 'impossible'.
No, it's "impossible". You eliminate the impossible, and then what remains is the possible, no matter how improbable it is. I have a copy of the story I took it from in front of me.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well not counting minor fixes I have doen the prehistoric era 2-3 times. The first few times with SO and then with DH's input. The Glactic Era was done first with Civ_Further back for the AToM mod and then again converting it over with SO. Later it was messed with with MrAzure.
So yeah I am talking about those first few implementations before MrAzure came.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
You have Ion Propulsion tech way out past the end of the tech tree. It should be at X75 Y3.
You have Ion Propulsion tech way out past the end of the tech tree. It should be at X75 Y3.
I still have (somewhere) the grand list of ideas MrAzure had for the Galactic Era, so someday I'll look through those and trim them down to about fifty new tech ideas. But that will probably after Multi-Maps are atleast functional in the code.
Thanks. I didn't notice it when I was fixing things because I was searching for ERA_GALACTIC. It's fixed now.
I'm not trying to change too much in any era. Think of what I am doing as more redistributing the beaker costs so that the costs form a smooth progression. Right now, post-Classical tech costs jump all over in terms of numbers and I am trying to organize them. I first thought of this while we were still coming up with new tech ideas and I really wanted a system to cost technologies instead of just having to guess.
Here's what I have coming up after the freeze. The current Medieval Era has 42 techs with a total base beaker cost of 39,425 beakers before modifiers. I have a reorganization and costing scheme in mind that will raise the total beaker cost to 41,000 beakers. That's an increase of just under 4%. I don't think that will change your calculations too much.
I can start looking at Praetyre's changes. I really don't like his ideas of having one Wonder require another (such as Apostolic Palace -> Sistine Chapel). I think it's horrible for gameplay.
1. OK, that actually seems like a pretty good idea. That amount of change shouldn't mess up anything too badly.
2. I agree, having wonders require other wonders (valley of kings excepted, that one is special) is a horrible idea. I also expect that there are some redundancies on the building upgrade trees (building A requires B and C, but C requires B), just like in techs, so those could also be removed during the Long Freeze.
Similar threads
