Tech Tree Discussion

[Vokarya]

US supplied troops by sea, easiest supply by far. I think Germany WWII advances are much more important, they planned Blitzkrieg and logistics for it with a day-by-day precision months in advance. And it was a much harder supply on land on conquered territory.

The important thing is that I'm trying to make sure that the tech is in the right era and roughly the right place (early - middle - late) within the era; I've made some concessions to prerequisites and spacing. Either way, Logistics definitely falls into the last part of the Industrial Era. There are some techs that I think still need to be moved between eras.

 

[Alex Costa]

Here are my ideas for the inventions described here in that thread

the Battery,

Should most likely be better represented by a resource perhaps. +1 and +1. It also should be a prerequisite for certain buildings like the Traffic Signals and the Power Lines. However the tech I am not sure. Electricity perhaps or a brand new tech?

Telephone,(came 30 years after Telepgraph),

Already represented by the Telephone Network which ironically comes at Telegraph tech. No ideas here but perhaps move the Telephone Network up to another tech?

Cotton Gin,

Not sure on this one. Probably a building to produce clothing?

Electric Motor (came 80 years before the first car)

This is represented by Electricity already

Photographic Film (can 90 years after photography)

Maybe could be a tech between Photography and Journalism.

Journalism

Already in C2C

Ironclad Ships

Already in C2C. This is even in Vanilla.

Elevators/Skyscrapers

Already in C2C

microphone

Not sure where to put this one

building codes

Same as above

appliances (they came 100 years before refrigeration)

Not sure on this one

Cement

Already a resource in C2C

 

[Alex Costa]

I have also noticed these techs are almost empty in the Industrial Era. I am not sure if things will be added later but

Photography right now gives a +1 to the Art Gallery. Allows you to build the Agent and construct an Accelerator? Yet there is no icon for that so I assume it's a bug. Not sure if this needs more stuff

Expressionism gives a +5 for the Ballon rides and it and Cubism give +1 to the Art Gallery and that's it. This is very few and perhaps we should look at adding something to these techs.

Cosmology right now has nothing. What is the purpose of this tech then?

Surrealism also adds +1 to the Art Gallery and nothing else.

And finally Atompunk is empty.

I propose perhaps Cubism should have something connected to Pablo Picasso. Perhaps the Picasso Museum could be a World Wonder?

Expressionism could also have a connection to a world wonder in this case Einstein's Laboratory (since there is a building actually connected to Einstein which is Expressionist art).

Surrealism though I have no idea.

 

[Vokarya]

Here's the second quarter of the Industrial Era. These are techs that date from 1850 - 1899.

Date Tech Event
1855 Steel Bessemer patents Bessemer converter
1857 Refining First large refinery in Romania
1862 Balloon Warfare US Army Balloon Corps
1862 Combustion Otto creates first practical 4-stroke combustion engine
1865 Medicine Lister develops antisepsis
1869 Labor Union Knights of Labor founded
1872 Wildlife Conservation Yellowstone National Park established
1872 Impressionism Monet paints Impression, Sunrise
1872 Criminology Bertillon anthropometric identification developed
1873 Electricity Maxwell publishes A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism
1874 Barbed Wire Glidden patents modern form of barbed wire
1877 Lawn Sports First Wimbledon championships
1879 Psychology First psychology laboratory
1881 Hydroelectricity Schoellkopf Power Station No. 1 at Niagara Falls
1882 Compulsory Education Jules Ferry laws establish free secular compulsory schools
1882 Refrigeration Refrigeration common in businesses and shipping
1882 Imperialism Britain occupies Egypt, Belgium creates Congo Free State
1884 Civil Engineering Home Insurance Building is first steel-frame tall building
1884 Propaganda N. W. Ayer & Son start advertising
1884 Semi-Automatic Weapons Maxim gun invented
1888 Motorized Transportation Benz begins producing automobiles
1893 Women's Suffrage New Zealand grants women's suffrage
1895 Motion Pictures Lumiere brothers invent cinematograph
1895 Water Sports Oil-powered engines used on small boats
1897 Radio Marconi patents radio
1897 Artillery Canon de 75 modèle 1897 is first modern artillery

I think I'm comfortable with this location for Compulsory Education. Medicine is also a tricky one to place, since it's another really broad topic, but I think antisepsis is a good place to peg this tech, and Pasteur and Koch are also working at the same time, so that's really laying the foundations of modern medicine and setting up for Antibiotics in the next part.

Propaganda is a bit of an issue, as the current tech prerequisites want to push it off until the 1920's (after Motion Pictures, and after Communism OR Fascism). I'm using the Propaganda tech for both commercial advertising and governmental propaganda, and the former seems to come a few decades before the latter (one of the biggest early events in propaganda is the US Committee on Public Information in World War I). If I move it to the 1920's (third quarter of the Industrial), it will wind up right next to Consumerism, and the dates for the tech and the Advertising Agency won't quite match. I'm actually leaning towards moving it to the later date, but I thought I would show it and see if anyone would prefer the earlier.

The rest of the techs I think I'm comfortable with, but some prerequisites for things are going to have to be juggled (example: I have Railroad before Steel, so we may need to move the metal requirement for Railroads back to Iron). Electricity will need some new tech prerequisites, since I'd like there to be more space between the beginning of the Industrial Era and electricity coming on the scene.

 

[Yudishtira]

I have also noticed these techs are almost empty in the Industrial Era. I am not sure if things will be added later but

Photography right now gives a +1 to the Art Gallery. Allows you to build the Agent and construct an Accelerator? Yet there is no icon for that so I assume it's a bug. Not sure if this needs more stuff

Expressionism gives a +5 for the Ballon rides and it and Cubism give +1 to the Art Gallery and that's it. This is very few and perhaps we should look at adding something to these techs.

Cosmology right now has nothing. What is the purpose of this tech then?

Surrealism also adds +1 to the Art Gallery and nothing else.

And finally Atompunk is empty.

I propose perhaps Cubism should have something connected to Pablo Picasso. Perhaps the Picasso Museum could be a World Wonder?

Expressionism could also have a connection to a world wonder in this case Einstein's Laboratory (since there is a building actually connected to Einstein which is Expressionist art).

Surrealism though I have no idea.

Expressionism and cubism were just fashions, were they not? Picasso is now only remembered as the punchline of jokes. There must be dozens (maybe hundreds) of flavour-of-the-month art-styles like these.

Please don't go down this route of acknowledging every passing fad, or next we'll have Bieber, Snoop Dogg and Lady Gaga as Great Artists.

(I'm a big fan of surrealism, particularly Gaudi's architecture, but I wouldn't mind if you wrote it off as a fad similarly).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Cosmology right now has nothing. What is the purpose of this tech then?

I will be adding the Planetarium to that tech. I just have not gotten around to it yet. In fact many empty techs I just have not gotten around to making buildings for them yet.

 

[Vokarya]

I started working on the prerequisites for the revamped Industrial Era, and I think Paleontology is going to wind up getting kicked back to the late Renaissance Era. I think I will be able to make everything else go through Steam Power, but Paleontology doesn't seem to do that. (I'm actually thinking about having Mormon be off of Agricultural Engineering. I think that better fits when the Mormon community was established in Utah.) What do you think?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I started working on the prerequisites for the revamped Industrial Era, and I think Paleontology is going to wind up getting kicked back to the late Renaissance Era. I think I will be able to make everything else go through Steam Power, but Paleontology doesn't seem to do that. (I'm actually thinking about having Mormon be off of Agricultural Engineering. I think that better fits when the Mormon community was established in Utah.) What do you think?

1. Where would you put Paleontology? A possible tome is during the Bone Wars sicne before then fossils were found in human history but were not properly identified. Or you may want when Iguanodon was first discovered.

2. Why do you think Agricultural Engineering is appropriate for Mormonism tech? Just wondering your reasoning.

 

[Alex Costa]

Expressionism and cubism were just fashions, were they not? Picasso is now only remembered as the punchline of jokes. There must be dozens (maybe hundreds) of flavour-of-the-month art-styles like these.

Please don't go down this route of acknowledging every passing fad, or next we'll have Bieber, Snoop Dogg and Lady Gaga as Great Artists.

(I'm a big fan of surrealism, particularly Gaudi's architecture, but I wouldn't mind if you wrote it off as a fad similarly).

Well I just think we could use more things in it. Architecture could defenatly be represented in it. Perhaps in Surrealism we could have either the Sagrada Famillia of Barcelona or the Casa Milla. It is just I look at those techs who only boost the Art Gallery in and then Animation gets Disneyland World Wonder and the others have nothing

 

[Alex Costa]

1. Where would you put Paleontology? A possible tome is during the Bone Wars sicne before then fossils were found in human history but were not properly identified. Or you may want when Iguanodon was first discovered.

2. Why do you think Agricultural Engineering is appropriate for Mormonism tech? Just wondering your reasoning.

1 - The first Paleontologist was Georges Curvier in the 18th century. That puts it in the 1700's and therefore late Renaissance so I figure it's current place is ok. It eventually leads to Psychology which sounds good. The problem is connecting it with Steam Power

2 - Don't the Mormons highly value Agriculture?

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Vokarya, under Semi-Auto Weapons, you have the Maxim Machine Gun being invented. Shouldn't this unit be moved to Automatic Weapons?

 

[ls612]

I have also noticed these techs are almost empty in the Industrial Era. I am not sure if things will be added later but

There are a lot of empty techs period. Maybe if I don't go off to New Horizons I'll go about trying to fill them up with stuff. That was one thing Azure and co were good at, making a bunch of ideas for stuff.

 

[Alex Costa]

There are a lot of empty techs period. Maybe if I don't go off to New Horizons I'll go about trying to fill them up with stuff. That was one thing Azure and co were good at, making a bunch of ideas for stuff.

If you need help I can contribute some ideas. I will have free time during the holidays.

 

[Vokarya]

Vokarya, under Semi-Auto Weapons, you have the Maxim Machine Gun being invented. Shouldn't this unit be moved to Automatic Weapons?

Given the prerequisites as they currently are, I see the following:

• Rifling tech = Gatling Gun unit (Gatling Gun)
• Semi-Automatic Weapons tech = Machine Gun unit (Maxim Gun)
• Automatic Weapons tech = Infantry unit (Browning Automatic Rifle)

Also, the first semi-automatic rifle is the Mannlicher 1885, right at the same time as the Maxim gun.

If you want to be absolutely correct, the Gatling needs to be moved to the early Industrial Era, but I like it where it is as it makes a neat continuum between the early defense guns (Ribaldquin, Organ Gun) and the Machine Gun.

 

[Alex Costa]

Also why is Photography a requirement for the Accelarator building?

 

[Vokarya]

Also why is Photography a requirement for the Accelarator building?

It's probably a leftover from when it originally introduced. There are a lot of redundant tech prerequisites on buildings, like Physics on Skyscraper. We used to have redundancies in other areas, but I was able to convince everyone that redundancies in the Tech Tree itself needed to be pruned, and I just pruned the redundancies out of the main Units file. When there are as many different prerequisites on certain items as we have, one often sees either or both of the two problems of redundant prerequisites and hidden prerequisites (building A requires tech B and also requires building C which requires tech D, so building A really requires techs B + D).

 

[Alex Costa]

It's probably a leftover from when it originally introduced. There are a lot of redundant tech prerequisites on buildings, like Physics on Skyscraper. We used to have redundancies in other areas, but I was able to convince everyone that redundancies in the Tech Tree itself needed to be pruned, and I just pruned the redundancies out of the main Units file. When there are as many different prerequisites on certain items as we have, one often sees either or both of the two problems of redundant prerequisites and hidden prerequisites (building A requires tech B and also requires building C which requires tech D, so building A really requires techs B + D).

Well does Photography lead to the tech in which Accelerators are built? Probably it's another redundancy.

 

[Vokarya]

1. Where would you put Paleontology? A possible tome is during the Bone Wars sicne before then fossils were found in human history but were not properly identified. Or you may want when Iguanodon was first discovered.

2. Why do you think Agricultural Engineering is appropriate for Mormonism tech? Just wondering your reasoning.

The Bone Wars are a century too late. I'm definitely pegging it to Cuvier as the first paleontologist, and it's simply a matter of when his work lays the foundations for paleontology as a science.

I think Mormon needs to actually be linked to the Mormon pioneer era and their settling in Utah. Agricultural Engineering seems to be the best fit, especially given how difficult it would be to colonize the desert where they settled.

 

[Faustmouse]

I also found many redundancies and hidden requirements for buildings in the industrial/modern era.
I would love to go over it and post all of those, but I don't have time for that until february. I think this is around the time when you want to release V28, so I would use this Version if you want me to do it.

 

[ls612]

I also found many redundancies and hidden requirements for buildings in the industrial/modern era.
I would love to go over it and post all of those, but I don't have time for that until february. I think this is around the time when you want to release V28, so I would use this Version if you want me to do it.

The redundancies may be cleared out by Vokarya's efforts now, he usually checks for that. I really like his style as a modder because he looks over everything in detail to make sure that nothing is missed.

At any rate, if any of the issues are still around come February please feel free to share them (in the Existing Buildings thread),