Tech Tree Discussion

[Johnny Canuck]

We could move Divine Ruler back to (Caste System OR Priesthood) - that would put it into the third tier of Ancient techs (my current setup has it at tier 5). Requiring Mysticism for Ancient technologies is redundant because Mysticism is required for Sedentary Lifestyle (via Megalith Construction).

That placement for Divine Ruler makes sense to me - if we're looking to move Kemetism earlier, I think that would be a natural spot for it. And quite right about Mysticism - my mistake.

I'd like to leave Civic Religion's prerequisites alone - the trick would be working it back into the tree. I don't think it should be necessary for any of the Dualism/Polytheism/Monotheism techs, and there aren't many other explicit religious techs in the later Ancient or Classical eras. It occurs to me, though, that Civic Religion would make a good prerequisite for Calendar since priests kept a lot of time rituals.

What if we make Civic Religion a requirement for Monarchy as well?

 

[strategyonly]

OK have a few techs that are NOT connected to anything in the NEW ones that were put into C2C> See attached.

 

[Azurian]

OK have a few techs that are NOT connected to anything in the NEW ones that were put into C2C> See attached.

Yeah i know the techs they are connected too havent been pushed to the SVN. Oh ill fix legalized gambling

 

[Vokarya]

OK have a few techs that are NOT connected to anything in the NEW ones that were put into C2C> See attached.

Are you playing with Advanced Economy off? If you have it on, Legalized Gambling should lead to Derivatives (which is an Advanced Economy tech).

 

[Thunderbrd]

I don't see why advanced economy would be undesirable to any player to be honest. It appears to me to be a very good candidate for turning on as a default and taking it out of the list visibility.

 

[ls612]

I don't see why advanced economy would be undesirable to any player to be honest. It appears to me to be a very good candidate for turning on as a default and taking it out of the list visibility.

I second this, it is almost essential to play C2C properly.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah I think Advanced Economy and Usable Mountains should not be optional. I don't know who doesn't use Usable Mountains and only DH has said he doesn't use Advanced Economy.

In short could we get those 2 features removed as optional.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I don't see why advanced economy would be undesirable to any player to be honest. It appears to me to be a very good candidate for turning on as a default and taking it out of the list visibility.

I have never played with advanced economy on. The original point behind it did not appeal to me. I will try it out next game but after 5 days at 8 hours a day I am finally in the Middle Ages and don't want to start a new game yet.

 

[strategyonly]

I have never played with advanced economy on. The original point behind it did not appeal to me. I will try it out next game but after 5 days at 8 hours a day I am finally in the Middle Ages and don't want to start a new game yet.

I think "our" 100 hour game just became a 200 hour game

 

[Mutasir]

I usually play with Usable Mountains on, but it has one extremely frustrating feature - placing some important for the early/mid-game resources like copper or iron on the tops of the peaks (so you can't get them until much later), while often there aren't any other sources of these available in the quite large area...

 

[AIAndy]

I usually play with Usable Mountains on, but it has one extremely frustrating feature - placing some important for the early/mid-game resources like copper or iron on the tops of the peaks (so you can't get them until much later), while often there aren't any other sources of these available in the quite large area...

There are often a lot more peaks than other valid terrain for those resources. While not realistic, maybe we should remove the ability for early/mid resources to appear on peaks. That way the map scripts are forced to place them on reachable terrain.

 

[strategyonly]

There are often a lot more peaks than other valid terrain for those resources. While not realistic, maybe we should remove the ability for early/mid resources to appear on peaks. That way the map scripts are forced to place them on reachable terrain.

Now thats sounds like a plan.

 

[Hydromancerx]

There are often a lot more peaks than other valid terrain for those resources. While not realistic, maybe we should remove the ability for early/mid resources to appear on peaks. That way the map scripts are forced to place them on reachable terrain.

I dislike this, mainly because it should not matter if the resource is useful before Mountaineering tech. Some resources are useful before and after such as copper needed for early game and then later needed for copper wires. Other like obsidian doesn't really have a late game use. However it makes sense for say Obsidian or Stone to be in a mountain.

I say leave it the way it is. Its much more rewarding finally gaining access to the resource trapped in the peak when you get Mountaineering tech.

 

[AIAndy]

I dislike this, mainly because it should not matter if the resource is useful before Mountaineering tech. Some resources are useful before and after such as copper needed for early game and then later needed for copper wires. Other like obsidian doesn't really have a late game use. However it makes sense for say Obsidian or Stone to be in a mountain.

I say leave it the way it is. Its much more rewarding finally gaining access to the resource trapped in the peak when you get Mountaineering tech.

The problem is that it makes it very hard to find the right settings in the resource XML as it fluctuates a lot how many you get on reachable terrain.

 

[Hankc]

How about an event, similar to the "Industrious villagers have built a pasture" event?
"Villagers have built a mine on one of our peaks, accessing a previously unusable mineral deposit. We have no idea how they did it. " Requires mining, obsoletes at Mountaineering.

 

[strategyonly]

The problem is that it makes it very hard to find the right settings in the resource XML as it fluctuates a lot how many you get on reachable terrain.

Yeah i had one game where almost all the stone resources were on mountain tops.

 

[AIAndy]

Yeah i had one game where almost all the stone resources were on mountain tops.

It is ok when that happens sometimes but unfortunately there are some resources for which it is common. Especially resources, that belong to a resource class with a high unique range but in which they have a late placement order but are allowed on peaks and on a limited amount of other terrain/features.

At that point I also want to remind that using TerrainBooleans in e.g. the bonus XML only allows that bonus on the specified terrains if the terrains don't have any features. Even if you want a bonus on a terrain with any features you have to use FeatureTerrainBooleans.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am part ay through attempting a re-balance of resource placement. My current attempt is on the SVN. One thing I have done is change the placement order for some resources, mostly food, since the less important ones were occurring more often than the more important grains.

 

[strategyonly]

I am part ay through attempting a re-balance of resource placement. My current attempt is on the SVN. One thing I have done is change the placement order for some resources, mostly food, since the less important ones were occurring more often than the more important grains.

Here, Here!!

 

[Vokarya]

That placement for Divine Ruler makes sense to me - if we're looking to move Kemetism earlier, I think that would be a natural spot for it. And quite right about Mysticism - my mistake.

What if we make Civic Religion a requirement for Monarchy as well?

That would definitely work, if we make Monarchy require Bronze Working AND Civic Religion AND Divine Ruler. Keeping the Bronze Working requirement makes it fit as one of the technologies of the early Classical Era. (Right now, it's possible to skip a large number of Classical technologies before beginning the Medieval Era thanks to the prerequisites of Civil Service and Feudalism.)