JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
This sounds interesting. I do hope they get some "space" between them and don't get clustered like Judaism, Asatru, and Zoroastrian did.
JosEPh
Tech Tree Discussion
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
This sounds interesting. I do hope they get some "space" between them and don't get clustered like Judaism, Asatru, and Zoroastrian did.
JosEPh
What would the ingame stats for that be? To me it would seem like a good Python wonder, so you may want to talk to Vokarya about it.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Is this a building or wonder? If a building it should probably have a more generalized name.
OK, I had a chance to think out my proposals for tweaking the locations of Taoism, Islam, and Christianity. I took a turn when I started thinking out Christianity a little more, but I'll post the ideas and see what everyone thinks.
Taoism
The historical founding of Taoism is in the 4th century BCE, and schools are definitely active before 1 CE. This puts it into the Classical Era, not the Medieval. I suggest the following:
Taoism
Location: x34 y15
Requirements: Philosophy (+?)
This would put Taoism where Sikhism is being moved out.
Islam
The historical founding of Islam and its first great wave of expansion is before 750. I think this belongs more to the early Medieval Era, instead of the late Medieval where we have it now. Education is definitely a late Medieval tech, and a lot of the early spread of Islam was by conquest. I suggest this change:
Islam
Location: X36 Y7
Requirements: Feudalism AND Fundamentalism AND Resurrection
Christianity
This one is a little more complex, because I think there are three events that need to be included: the Christianizing of Rome, the East-West Schism, and the Protestant Reformation. This is one approach, and that is an explicitly Christian Reformation. I could see another scenario where any politically powerful, institutionalized religion undergoes a similar Reformation.
As it stands, one could not construct a late-Classical scenario with a Christian Roman Empire, because the Christianity technology would push Rome into the Medieval Era. I wouldn't count 3rd-century Judaea, either conquered or vassaled, as medieval.
So, there would be three technologies to cover the various forms of Christianity.
Christianity
Era: Classical
Location: X33 Y5
Requirements: Judaism AND Philosophy
Founds Christianity
Catholicism
Era: Medieval
Location: X38 Y1
Requirements: Christianity AND Papacy
Founds Catholicism
Protestantism
Era: Renaissance
Location: X44 Y1
Requirements: Catholicism AND Humanism AND Printing Press
Founds Protestantism
For the most part, the three strains of Christianity would act as differing religions, but they would share the same Holy City. (I'm not sure of all the details here). The biggest change would be that on the founding or first spreading of a new Christian denomination in your territory and one of the previous Christianities was your state religion, you could force a conversion; all of your cities would lose the previous Christianity and gain the new one. It's a way of implementing the Cuius regio, eius religio idea.
Also, at the time of the discovery of Catholicism, the basic Christianity converts to Orthodox in name only. None of its statistics change. So you can then stay Orthodox or convert to Catholicism. I imagine Catholic religious buildings being better at
(more attention to art) and Protestant religious buildings being better at (closer to the common people).
Of course, if we radically redesign religion, then this may become moot, but I'm just following up on my previous suggestion.
Taoism
The historical founding of Taoism is in the 4th century BCE, and schools are definitely active before 1 CE. This puts it into the Classical Era, not the Medieval. I suggest the following:
Taoism
Location: x34 y15
Requirements: Philosophy (+?)
This would put Taoism where Sikhism is being moved out.
Islam
The historical founding of Islam and its first great wave of expansion is before 750. I think this belongs more to the early Medieval Era, instead of the late Medieval where we have it now. Education is definitely a late Medieval tech, and a lot of the early spread of Islam was by conquest. I suggest this change:
Islam
Location: X36 Y7
Requirements: Feudalism AND Fundamentalism AND Resurrection
Christianity
This one is a little more complex, because I think there are three events that need to be included: the Christianizing of Rome, the East-West Schism, and the Protestant Reformation. This is one approach, and that is an explicitly Christian Reformation. I could see another scenario where any politically powerful, institutionalized religion undergoes a similar Reformation.
As it stands, one could not construct a late-Classical scenario with a Christian Roman Empire, because the Christianity technology would push Rome into the Medieval Era. I wouldn't count 3rd-century Judaea, either conquered or vassaled, as medieval.
So, there would be three technologies to cover the various forms of Christianity.
Christianity
Era: Classical
Location: X33 Y5
Requirements: Judaism AND Philosophy
Founds Christianity
Catholicism
Era: Medieval
Location: X38 Y1
Requirements: Christianity AND Papacy
Founds Catholicism
Protestantism
Era: Renaissance
Location: X44 Y1
Requirements: Catholicism AND Humanism AND Printing Press
Founds Protestantism
For the most part, the three strains of Christianity would act as differing religions, but they would share the same Holy City. (I'm not sure of all the details here). The biggest change would be that on the founding or first spreading of a new Christian denomination in your territory and one of the previous Christianities was your state religion, you could force a conversion; all of your cities would lose the previous Christianity and gain the new one. It's a way of implementing the Cuius regio, eius religio idea.
Also, at the time of the discovery of Catholicism, the basic Christianity converts to Orthodox in name only. None of its statistics change. So you can then stay Orthodox or convert to Catholicism. I imagine Catholic religious buildings being better at
(more attention to art) and Protestant religious buildings being better at (closer to the common people).Of course, if we radically redesign religion, then this may become moot, but I'm just following up on my previous suggestion.
@Vokarya:
1. Your suggestions for Taoism and Islam seem pretty reasonable, I would not mind implementing them.
2. I do take exception to adding more religions now, we already have 26 of them and they already create some balance issues. Adding more, especially when DH is considering more overhauls of the system, seems like a bad idea to me.
1. Your suggestions for Taoism and Islam seem pretty reasonable, I would not mind implementing them.
2. I do take exception to adding more religions now, we already have 26 of them and they already create some balance issues. Adding more, especially when DH is considering more overhauls of the system, seems like a bad idea to me.
It was a suggestion. I was thinking about religions in general and it occurred to me that the Reformation is a historically significant event that is not currently represented in the game. If a new system is coming, then this can certainly wait.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
This sounds interesting. I do hope they get some "space" between them and don't get clustered like Judaism, Asatru, and Zoroastrian did.
JosEPh
Interesting. The way I play those three are not clustered. I usually get Asatru first because I go down the seafaring line before I get the Dualism tech.
I don't want to add more religions at the moment. Some of the ones we have need more work Jainism and Sikhism in particular.
I am still working towards getting Sevos' mod in which is more a drift in religions rather than a revolutionary review. If I was going to do the revolutionary stuff it will require an overhaul of the tech tree (minor) and culture system (minor work but significant change) as well as all the religion stuff (very major).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I would move it to ...
Protestantism
Era: Renaissance
Location: X49 Y3
Requirements: Catholicism AND Enlightenment
Founds Protestantism
Note: Enlightenment covers both Humanism AND Printing Press requirements.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I agree, lets wait for DH to get the Sevo stuff at least tested and ingame before any big changes in religious ideas before hand.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Don't worry. I wont be adding any anytime soon.
Actually, it's the other way around history-wise. The 95 Theses are 1517. The Age of Enlightenment kicks off around 1650.
I'll withdraw this for now. We can wait until the heavy religion modding is done, and then see if this is still even a possibility.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
If you look at the mod "Rapture" it divides the religions down quite a bit in each categories, if you wanted to look at that.
But it is alot of SDK/tag extra stuff.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
If your game was started before Koshling's latest tweaks to the AI and it's desire to found a religion your pic can still happen. That's why I posted about it and supplied BBAI logs.
My New game after the tweaks is showing a better spread.
In fact I'm not sure if I can Found my 2nd Religion. I may get beat out to it. And my 3rd favorite is already snatched up.
JosEPh
My New game after the tweaks is showing a better spread.
In fact I'm not sure if I can Found my 2nd Religion. I may get beat out to it. And my 3rd favorite is already snatched up.
JosEPh
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Thx
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
You might still get a late religion If you try real hard. But Babylon is gonna be a bear to deal with.
JosEPh
JosEPh
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
When MrAzure edited the tech tree the techs got all spread out in the Galactic Era. Could you take a look at the online tech tree and put them back in order again? Basically X95 to X122. Note I left wiggle room in case we add more techs later.
Just thought it should look nicer before the next release.
Thanks in advance!
When MrAzure edited the tech tree the techs got all spread out in the Galactic Era. Could you take a look at the online tech tree and put them back in order again? Basically X95 to X122. Note I left wiggle room in case we add more techs later.
Just thought it should look nicer before the next release.
Thanks in advance!
@Vokarya
When MrAzure edited the tech tree the techs got all spread out in the Galactic Era. Could you take a look at the online tech tree and put them back in order again? Basically X95 to X122. Note I left wiggle room in case we add more techs later.
Just thought it should look nicer before the next release.
Thanks in advance!
I think it could use just a bit more room on the Galactic Era. How about up to X130?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Not to make a pun but there is a lot of "empty space" in the Galactic era. Since we are not going to be doing anything with it for a long while they should at least be orderly until we do stuff with them. I think the single space between existing columns is more than enough for now.
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