Tech Tree Discussion

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612 & Vokarya

Unmanned Naval Vehicles tech is missing its tech quote. It just shows a big tag text.

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

Can't recall specifics at the moment, and this is from v25, but it's possible to obsolete Concrete Masons before being able to build a Cement Mill, thus leaving a gap where your people suddenly forget how to make cement.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Can't recall specifics at the moment, and this is from v25, but it's possible to obsolete Concrete Masons before being able to build a Cement Mill, thus leaving a gap where your people suddenly forget how to make cement.

Just like they did in western Europe

 

[Azurian]

I think the follwing changes should be included.

Pictographs
+1 to Crafts Hut
+1 to Warriors Hut


Idealgrams
+1 to Sacrificial Altar

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

Just like they did in western Europe

That's... uh... a surprisingly valid point. Even so, it was a bit silly that my schizo-tech late-industrial age civilization had to import cement from my early-medieval neighbors in order to construct a multimillion ton dam capable of powering the entire continent.

Oh and also, Culture(Swiss) being on Mountaineering seems to be a bit late. While it fits thematically, by the time Mountaineering is researched the Swiss Pikeman is already obsolete. Perhaps it should be a UU of the Heavy Pikeman instead of a normal Pikeman? Either that, or the Culture wonder needs to be moved forward in the tech tree.

 

[Nimek]

Can we add:

Water Gathering or Liquid Materials Gathering
- provides fresh water resource

Gathering ex apples is totaly diffren that gathering liquid materials like water. Prehistroic people must use their brains before they ware able to transport water in ex leather buckets.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Leather Buckets means you would need to discover leather first. Hoever people have used other objects to hold water such as gourds or even ... wooden buckets!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps it wouldn't be Leather so much as animal bladders that went into first use for water storage.

 

[ls612]

I think the follwing changes should be included.

Pictographs
+1 to Crafts Hut
+1 to Warriors Hut


Idealgrams
+1 to Sacrificial Altar

Sounds good to me, Hydro, what say you?

 

[Hydromancerx]

But then there is another question. Ok so you have a water carrying container. Where are you getting the water from?

1. River - Well then you already have fresh water.
2. Lakes - Already provide freshwater.
3. Rainforest - Already gives freshwater.
4. Oasis - Already gives freshwater.
5. Ocean - Sorry that is salt water.
6. Marsh - Sorry that water you cannot drink.
7. Rain/Fog - Sorry we have no weather yet.
8. Underground - That's what the Well is for.
9. Ice/Snow - Hmm perhaps they should provide freshwater.
10. Coconut/Cactus - While they can provide an individual with water they are not enough to sustain a community for long periods of time.

As for as I can see there are already plenty of freshwater resources on the map. Its your fault if you do not found a city near a source of freshwater before the invention of wells.

 

[Nimek]

@hydro

Idea is simple. Remove fresh water bonus add give fresh water resource instead. Fresh water resource will provide fresh water bonus and water gathering tech will allow to transport it by paths.

With that solution you will be able to have fresh water on the desert only if you are connected to the trade route.

Without water gathering people can live near river bank but they cant take water to their caves/homes so they dont have instant access to fresh water.

Or maybe water gathering tech will make enable fresh water bonus like some tech enable irrigation bonus for farms.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well I think you could do both.

First you have a water source (ex river, oasis, well). Then you have a water collection building which produces water resource. Then you have water storage building that require water resource and gives freshwater.

However this seems really complex when you could just build a well. This is where resource amounts would come in handy.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Can't recall specifics at the moment, and this is from v25, but it's possible to obsolete Concrete Masons before being able to build a Cement Mill, thus leaving a gap where your people suddenly forget how to make cement.

Concrete Mason goes obsolete at Civil Engineering tech (x59). Cement Mill comes at Thermodynamics tech (x55). If you don't want to loose Cement then research Thermodynamics before Civil Engineering.

Though I may need to force Thermodynamics to lead to Civil Engineering or move Cement Mill to another tech that is in the tech path of Civil Engineering.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Concrete Mason goes obsolete at Civil Engineering tech (x59). Cement Mill comes at Thermodynamics tech (x55). If you don't want to loose Cement then research Thermodynamics before Civil Engineering.

Though I may need to force Thermodynamics to lead to Civil Engineering or move Cement Mill to another tech that is in the tech path of Civil Engineering.

Which reminds me the Blacksmith's Guild obsoletes before the Forge does.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Which reminds me the Blacksmith's Guild obsoletes before the Forge does.

That's because the Foundry replaces the Forge. Thus I put the Blacksmith Guild to go obsolete when the Foundry is unlocked. And the forge doesn't go obsolete then so you can actually replace it with the Foundry before it goes obsolete. In short it was done on purpose.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Maybe it should be instead upgradable to a Steel Worker's Union?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Maybe it should be instead upgradable to a Steel Worker's Union?

Shhh. Stop giving out spoilers.

 

[Taxman66]

Does anyone else feel that the archery tech and the ranged units are a little out of whack? This relates back to vanilla CIV IV.

Arrow heads have been found in Africa that date prior to 25,000 BC.

Conversly the Romans had active Slinger units in the battle for Alesia in 52 BC.

Note: I'm not saying that Slingers are stronger than Bowman. I'm saying that Archery seems to come rather late in the Tech tree (although perhaps there should be different quality levels?) when you can easily build Galleys before Archers.

 

[Koshling]

Does anyone else feel that the archery tech and the ranged units are a little out of whack? This relates back to vanilla CIV IV.

Arrow heads have been found in Africa that date prior to 25,000 BC.

Conversly the Romans had active Slinger units in the battle for Alesia in 52 BC.

Note: I'm not saying that Slingers are stronger than Bowman. I'm saying that Archery seems to come rather late in the Tech tree (although perhaps there should be different quality levels?) when you can easily build Galleys before Archers.

Well, two things:

1) Atlatls are really (essentially) early archers, and they come pretty early

2) Now TB has re-enabled archery bombard, real archers are probably going to be somewhat more powerful than before, so it's likely good that the real ones don't come too early.

 

[ls612]

Well, two things:

1) Atlatls are really (essentially) early archers, and they come pretty early

2) Now TB has re-enabled archery bombard, real archers are probably going to be somewhat more powerful than before, so it's likely good that the real ones don't come too early.

Also, it is easier to throw a rock at someone than to make a bow and use it on someone, so throwing rocks comes earlier than Archers in the Tech Tree.