Tech Tree Discussion

Per conversation with MrAzure I am going to drop some useful articles in hopefully the right places.
Ok here is a tech tree related article - not that this is future related

Homeric Epics Were Written in 762 BCE, Give or Take, New Study Suggests
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130227183320.htm

Santa Fe Institute External Professor Mark Pagel, an evolutionary biologist at Reading University (UK), and colleagues decided to ask what scholars refer to as "The Homeric Question" using a quantitative approach borrowed from study of evolution.

Pagel's team compared the Greek vocabulary in Homer's Iliad to modern Greek, relying on a 200-word lexicon found in every language and contrasting the distantly related Hittite as an indicator of divergence.

Their methods date Homer's language to 762 BCE. The statistical model, says Pagel, "is completely ignorant to history -- it doesn't know who Homer is and doesn't know Greek." Accordingly, the potential date ranges from the improbable extremes of 376 BCE to 1157 BCE. But the estimate attaches a robust likelihood to the date, and it ties nicely to Nestor's Cup, a vase dated to 723 BCE that is thought to carry an inscription from The Iliad.

The study reveals "an astonishing regularity in the way languages evolve," notes Pagel. "That we can blindly apply rates of language change to Homeric and modern Greek and come up with 762 BCE tells us language is behaving in a regular and predictive way."

- neat for both the timing, and the quantitative dating.
 
The Forgotten Gadget That Powered The Industrial Revolution
http://io9.com/5983444/the-forgotten-gadget-that-powered-the-industrial-revolution

During the industrial revolution, people wanted to accelerate gases like steam in order to have them drive engines or turbines...Although the gas would accelerate, at a certain level the flow would just be choked off. No matter how thin the tube, and how much pressure built up behind it, there was little or no further acceleration. Engineers attempted to get around this by making changes to the texture, size, and tapering of the tubes, but nothing worked. Until, in 1888, Gustaf de Laval came up with a new nozzle that tapered down, like all the rest, and then flared outwards again. Suddenly gas was shooting out at incredible rates, much faster than it ever had before...

...It remains on jet engines to this day, shooting things through the sky, and through space. And all it takes is an hourglass shape.

- it makes both the point that some techs could have been figured out at any time, unbound in history, and the significance of a certain tech.
 
A Dangerous Fixation
Synthetic nitrogen was born 100 years ago; it’s why half of us are alive.
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...dern_agriculture_needs_to_use_fertilizer.html

Consider Carl Bosch our leading candidate for a modern Prometheus. This year marks a century since Bosch, a chemist, opened the Oppau, Germany-based Stickstoffwerke (“nitrogen works”)—the first factory to produce synthetic ammonia, the main ingredient of chemical fertilizers.

It was an impressive technical feat that helped earn Bosch the Nobel Prize in 1931. His fellow chemist Fritz Haber had pioneered and patented the process for “fixing” inert nitrogen (the gas that makes up 78 percent of the atmosphere) into a usable, reactive form. Bosch figured out how to do it economically and on a large scale...

..Where would we be without this feat of modern alchemy? Well, for starters, many of us wouldn’t be without it: Half of us wouldn’t be alive today if not for synthetic nitrogen...

The Oppau Stickstoffwerke was a kind of existential hinge. In 1913, there were about 1.7 billion people in the world, and the factory fixed about 7,300 tons of nitrogen in its first year. Today there are 7 billion of us and more than 120 million tons of nitrogen are produced every year using techniques that haven’t changed all that much. More than 80 percent of that reactive nitrogen goes into fertilizers for agriculture. A 2008 paper in Nature Geoscience contains a remarkable graph showing how closely world population growth has tracked the increase in fertilizer production—and how a world without it could sustain only 3.5 billion people. That counterfactual can make one’s head swim a bit. It’s like imagining the Back to the Future scenario of your parents never marrying, but on a global scale, or the plot for a Malthusian-themed Newt Gingrich alternative-history novel. Another mind-blowing way to think about it: On average, half of the nitrogen in your body was synthetically fixed.

For this reason alone, the Haber-Bosch process is considered by many scientists and historians to be the most transformational technological development of the modern age. But the case gets even stronger once you consider all of its unintended consequences....
 
We already have AquaCulture but this is interesting. may adjust food yields

Farming Nemo: How Aquaculture Will Feed 9 Billion Hungry People
http://gizmodo.com/5994075/farming-...feed-9-billion-hungry-people?tag=giz-explains

an estimated 85 percent of the ocean's fish stocks are now either fully exploited or overfished. But an ancient form of aquatic farming, and current $60 billion-a-year industry, may hold the key to both protecting wild fish populations and your local sushi shop.

Spoiler :

Conventional current fisheries are facing a crisis of supply, as any show on the History or Discovery channels can tell you (looking at you, Big Shrimpin'/Deadliest Catch/Swords/Wicked Tuna). Not only are fishermen pulling fewer fish out of the sea, the ones that are harvested are far smaller than those caught just a few decades ago. What's more, overly broad Area of Effect methods used to capture desired fish—long lines and trawl nets, for example—all too often ensnare and kill marine mammals and fish, known as by-catch, or damage delicate habitats...

Aquaculture has been around since at least 6000 BC when the indigenous Gunditjmara people living near what's now Victoria, Australia began raising eels in a 39 square mile patch of volcanic floodplains controlled by channels and dams. The Chinese raised carp trapped in lakes by receding flood waters for food as far back as 2500 BC (and through their efforts, invented goldfish). The Romans bred fish in grand ponds, as did early Christian monasteries throughout Europe in the Middle Ages...
 
Novopaleontology


even-in-3d-can-jurassic-park-recapture-that-gut-level-awe.jpg



Novo is latin for Revive, and paleontology is the study of past species . The revival of extinct species beyond 20 million years. This means we can revive exinct species, collect their genomes for pharma, and for attractions.
Spoiler :


DNA Computing
Artificial Photosynthesis
Cyberimmuniology


I beleive before we have Artificial Evolution and Artificial Life we should be able to revive extinct species. This tech will also house late Transhuman biological, anthropological, and genetic buildings. This would lead to Artificial Evolution. It would also be required for Organic Cities, because if we can revive exinct plants, we can find new exiting generic properties.



Miniature Dinosaur Shop
Eon Simulator
Novo Pharmacy
Fossil Resurrection Center
Origin of Life (Project)
Jurassic Park (World Wonder) (required Wireless Electricity Fence)
Cambrian Seaworld (World Wonder)
Archaeopteryx Perserve (world Wonder) (required Wireless Electricity Fence)


Zoology, and Paleontology buddings.



The inspiration of generic exploration. We have gene enhancement and genomic encyclopedias, the people will get a "manifest destiny" of trying to catalog all life since with the Genetica Apparel shop they can by Tyrannasarus leather shoes, etc. Instead of reviving skin, at this point we have the technology to revive the whole creature. It fits perfectly with the techs surrounding it, we have no geology/biology building in the area.

Extinct Species We Wish Science Would Bring Back to Life
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/03/de-extinction-wish-list/?pid=6448
Spoiler :

Dire Wolf
Giant Ground Sloth
Haast's Eagle and Moa
Diprotodon
Dodo
Paraceratherium
Smilodon
Megacerops
Marsupial Lion
Tasmanian Tiger
Woolly Rhinoceros
Woolly Mammoth


Maybe some of these could be considered. :)
 
Cool tech. Perhaps we could have Trained Velociraptor units take on an advanced canine role ;) We could heavily arm and equip a Tyrannosaur to ride into battle with missile launchers and machine guns mounted on its shoulders - its mind completely subjected to the whim of a powerful mind control helmet controlled by its rider. Brontosaur could become the next big meat source for McDowells.

Cool!
Quite a poor idea about combat unit. On this technical level, they would be no match for regular unite. Most of dinosaurs were big, slow and lacked maneuverability -- ideal targets.

The Forgotten Gadget That Powered The Industrial Revolution
http://io9.com/5983444/the-forgotten-gadget-that-powered-the-industrial-revolution

During the industrial revolution, people wanted to accelerate gases like steam in order to have them drive engines or turbines...Although the gas would accelerate, at a certain level the flow would just be choked off. No matter how thin the tube, and how much pressure built up behind it, there was little or no further acceleration. Engineers attempted to get around this by making changes to the texture, size, and tapering of the tubes, but nothing worked. Until, in 1888, Gustaf de Laval came up with a new nozzle that tapered down, like all the rest, and then flared outwards again. Suddenly gas was shooting out at incredible rates, much faster than it ever had before...

...It remains on jet engines to this day, shooting things through the sky, and through space. And all it takes is an hourglass shape.

- it makes both the point that some techs could have been figured out at any time, unbound in history, and the significance of a certain tech.
This invention was not significant in practice in its original form. Don't you think putting it as a part of early rocketry wouldn't be wiser?
 
Spoiler :

Dire Wolf
Giant Ground Sloth
Haast's Eagle and Moa
Diprotodon
Dodo
Paraceratherium
Smilodon
Megacerops
Marsupial Lion
Tasmanian Tiger
Woolly Rhinoceros
Woolly Mammoth

The ones in bold I really wish I had meshes for. Note we already have Dire Wolf, Haast's Eagle, Moa, Woolly Mammoth and Smilodon (aka Sabertooth) in the prehistoric era.

I also think I have a dodo model I have yet to convert.

And Paraceratherium (aka Indricotherium) is too early to be with prehistoric man.
 
Quite a poor idea about combat unit. On this technical level, they would be no match for regular unite. Most of dinosaurs were big, slow and lacked maneuverability -- ideal targets.

Yet a number of popular versions of the future envision strike units with precisely these faults (I'm thinking of Sentinels in X-Men and Angels etc. in Neongenesis Evangelion - there must be lots more).
 
Yet a number of popular versions of the future envision strike units with precisely these faults (I'm thinking of Sentinels in X-Men and Angels etc. in Neongenesis Evangelion - there must be lots more).

True, there's shielding systems that could come into play to deflect such weaponry that would seek to take such an advantage. The best thing about such a creature would be how much it could carry and that could be a lot of tech that could form the basis of a Mech-like mobility - Plus it'd be pretty damned intimidating to the enemy wouldn't it?

And it may not be so great in comparison to the tech of the day BUT give the creature some growth hormones and get a Godzilla-like critter out of the deal and we have another story here. And if we can go so far as to resurrect a Tyrannosaur and take over his mind so we could send him to battle in a way that's safe for the rider(s), then I'm pretty sure we could give him some serious growth adaptations (or at least as a unit upgrade later).
 
...leaves you with only 36 unselected techs - religious/punk ones and 3 domestication techs.
Apparently you don't have to know about domesticating cats to take control over universe ;)

In version V32 there are ~650 techs.
Unselected ones are (if you click Analyze Strings):

Druidism, Shamanism, Feline Domestication, Camel Domestication, Megafauna Domestication, Tengriism, Mesopotamism, Shinto, Ngaiism, Andeanism, Canaaism, Kementism, Hinduism, Yoruba, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Asatru, Buddhism, Hellenism, Naghualism, Confucianism, Jainism, Taoism, Christianity, Islam, Voodo, Clockpunk, Sikhism, Steampunk, Bahai, Mormon, Dieselpunk, Atompunk, Scientology, Biopunk and Cyberpunk.

Also I'm going to report bugs in tech tree - some technologies are in wrong columns, like technology and its requirement are in same column.
 
Koshling
Can you do your scanner thing where you check the Tech Tree for errors. Transhuman Era is at Gold Standard (No more Added Techs), and ready to be debugged.
 
Some same column requirements were unavoidable. As long as the techs don't go backwards such as a required tech is ahead of the tech researched then we should be ok.

EDIT: An example with the oene you reported. Which was Tracking and Trapping

Nomadic Lifestyle (X1) -> Gathering (X2) -> Scavenging (X3) -> Persistent Hunting (X4) -> Tracking (X5) -> Trapping (X5) -> Hunting (X6) -> Poison Crafting (X7) -> Nauropathy (X8) -> Adhesives (X9) -> Personal Adornment (X10) -> Bead Making (X11) -> Barter (X12) -> Arithmetic (X12) -> Pictographs (X13) -> Mysticism (X15) -> Megalith Construction (X16)

As you can see this is a huge block where if one tech moves then it throws off all the other techs. Likewise Hunting use to be farther down the tree and Tracking was where hunting was. So when it got moved back it threw some techs off which ment the least damage was having tech requirements in the same column as the tech.
 
Took a snapshot at the Techs with World Builder. We have 734 Techs. This will look nice on Moddb when v33 is here.
Spoiler :
pDGf3C4.jpg
 
Okay Hydro :)

734 techs? WOW, excellent job guys.
I think no game and no mod had that many techs ever...

Are eras going to have fairly similar (like +-20% of average) numbers of techs?
 
Okay Hydro :)

734 techs? WOW, excellent job guys.
I think no game and no mod had that many techs ever...

Are eras going to have fairly similar (like +-20% of average) numbers of techs?

Transhuman Era has 164 Techs total or about 22.3%. 44 were recently added this month to that Era. Transhuman Era is considered finished..
 
Transhuman Era has 164 Techs total or about 22.3%. 44 were recently added this month to that Era. Its considered finished.

Okay Nice :)

Are there going to be ~11% of all techs for each era?
Or there are going to be eras with considerably fever techs like as low as 50 - 80?

There are 9 eras:
Prehistoric, Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern, Transhuman and Galactic.
Future has Analyze Strings only, so it doesn't count :p
 
Biopunk, Cyberpunk, and Nanopunk are tricky but Hydro said something about Alternative Timelines have technology that is ahead of its time.

The events of Biopunk start around Gene Enhancement aka 7 columns away.
The events of Cyberpunk starts at around Media Hivemind/Synthetic Sentience aka 7 columns away.
The events of Nanopunk start around Antigrav/Cybernetics aka 7 columns away.


If you wanted a more powerful alternative timeline I would put Biopunk at x77 by Genetics/Microprocessor. It would be 13 columns away.

Cyberpunk at x81 with Nanotechnology/Knowledge Management. It would be 11 columns away.

Nanopunk at x87 with Augmented Reality/Genesis Biology. It would be 10 columns away.

I personally would think this is a better arrangement, since this punks took place in the 70s , 80s, 90s anyway. It would be the farthest back they could go. Its up to Alternative Timelines Team thou.
 
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