Tech Tree Discussion

[raxo2222]

83 cities and Galactic era when it should be Classical era
Also no free land for enemy civs and barbarians on this Duel sized map.
I wonder if animals can't spawn near units.

I guess just build all buildings and then use research process when cities doesn't have anything to build.
You can remove units, that aren't used for property control.

I guess buildings and trade completely overwhelm land yields in later game.

 

[Osk21]

83 cities and Galactic era when it should be Classical era
Also no free land for enemy civs and barbarians on this Duel sized map.
I wonder if animals can't spawn near units.

I guess just build all buildings and then use research process when cities doesn't have anything to build.
You can remove units, that aren't used for property control.

I guess buildings and trade completely overwhelm land yields in later game.

This is exactly what I'll do until next SVN!

 

[KaTiON_PT]

@Osk21
877 hours playthrough!

 

[pepper2000]

I noticed that there are plans to harmonize the names and keys for all the techs, sparing confusion on why, for instance, TECH_INTERSTELLAR_TRAVEL is Ion Propulsion and not Interstellar Travel. That's good. Before we do that, though,

- Maybe rename Advanced Environmental Systems -> Space Colonies? That's what the key is, and I find it to be a more descriptive and useful name.
- Exomining is an early-mid Galactic Era mining tech, which allows the player to disassemble planets and perform large scale harvesting of gas giant atmospheres. I would like to have a better name but can't readily think of one. Any ideas?
- I don't like the "Imaginary Physics" name. I presume it is meant to be a catch-all for emerging / near-future concepts in physics. Again, I would like to have a better name but can't think of one off-hand.
- Astroindustry / Astroindustrialism is another one where I would like to have a better name. It should be a catch-all for advanced, Galactic Era manufacturing which emphasis on planet-scale self-replicating systems.

EDIT:

Another tech I've been thinking about is VASIMR Propulsion. That's something we could see around the middle of the Nanotech Era or maybe sooner. I've been using the tech in the early Galactic Era to represent spacecraft that are cheap and compact enough as to be suitable for personal usage and to facilitate casual tourism in the Solar System. We might rename the tech to Fusion Spacecraft, or Fusion Starship, with the idea that it is a Fusion VASIMR engine, to distinguish it from the fission based technology at Nuclear Power Propulsion.

If we need another space propulsion tech in the Nanotech Era, we could create a new VASIMR Propulsion tech there.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

What do you think of:

Exomining -> Planet Cracking
Astroindustrialism -> Forge Worlds

 

[pepper2000]

What do you think of:

Exomining -> Planet Cracking
Astroindustrialism -> Forge Worlds

I like both of them.

 

[raxo2222]

What about changing Imaginary Physics to Computational Physics?

Also I like Fusion Spacecraft tech.
Those definitely would have two types of engines: Those that allow flight in dense atmosphere and those useful to get to orbit.
To get anywhere from orbit you would have to refuel at space station.
Still they would look like oversized private jets

There are few other games (or their mods) where you can make nuclear powered spacecraft too.

 

[tmv]

What about changing Imaginary Physics to Computational Physics?

That's not (near) future, but contemporary - might even be Atomic Age (FORTRAN is from the 1950s originally) and - in this case - a prerequisite for any kind of space flight. OTOH the first confirmed detection of an exoplanet was in 1992 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoplanet (this is a prerequisite in the game).

 

[raxo2222]

That's not (near) future, but contemporary - might even be Atomic Age (FORTRAN is from the 1950s originally) and - in this case - a prerequisite for any kind of space flight.

Modern Physics is around that timeframe.

 

[pepper2000]

What about changing Imaginary Physics to Computational Physics?

Maybe. It captures the use of supercomputers to process data, and only with contemporary computing resources (along with a massive particle accelerator) could the Higgs boson have been discovered, for instance. But as tmv notes, "computational" is a big vague and does not fix it to the present/near future.

The progression of physics techs we have--unless I missed something--is

- Physics (Renaissance) -> Theory of Relativity (early Atomic) -> Quantum Physics (early Atomic) -> Cosmology (mid Atomic) -> Modern Physics (mid Atomic) -> Superstring Theory (early Information) -> Imaginary Physics (late Info) -> Unification Physics (early Transhuman).

That potentially leaves gaps for Atomic Theory (early Industrial) and Electromagnetism (corresponding say to Maxwell's Equations, late Industrial). We also don't have a general purpose physics tech in the Nanotech Era that I am aware of.

Also, note that the icon for Imaginary Physics is a Calabi-Yau manifold, which makes it seem like an offshoot of Superstring Theory. It comes rather soon after Superstring Theory. Finally, the three pieces of content I have there could probably be at home at Exoplanet Discovery or other late Info Era techs. I think all of this might be a good case for getting rid of Imaginary Physics.

 

[raxo2222]

Maybe. It captures the use of supercomputers to process data, and only with contemporary computing resources (along with a massive particle accelerator) could the Higgs boson have been discovered, for instance. But as tmv notes, "computational" is a big vague and does not fix it to the present/near future.

The progression of physics techs we have--unless I missed something--is

- Physics (Renaissance) -> Theory of Relativity (early Atomic) -> Quantum Physics (early Atomic) -> Cosmology (mid Atomic) -> Modern Physics (mid Atomic) -> Superstring Theory (early Information) -> Imaginary Physics (late Info) -> Unification Physics (early Transhuman).

That potentially leaves gaps for Atomic Theory (early Industrial) and Electromagnetism (corresponding say to Maxwell's Equations, late Industrial). We also don't have a general purpose physics tech in the Nanotech Era that I am aware of.

Also, note that the icon for Imaginary Physics is a Calabi-Yau manifold, which makes it seem like an offshoot of Superstring Theory. It comes rather soon after Superstring Theory. Finally, the three pieces of content I have there could probably be at home at Exoplanet Discovery or other late Info Era techs. I think all of this might be a good case for getting rid of Imaginary Physics.

It seems like Electricity tech is Electromagnetism theory and its applications in one package.
Atomic theory was a thing in early 19th century, so it would be closer to middle of Industrial era - maybe right behind that clogged part of Industrial era.

Also deleting tech like that will ruin saves. You can repurpose it for something else.

There are few techs named Novus X, so Novus Physics could be good name for general purpose physics tech in Nanotech era.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I can't find the existing discussion on the "new and improved" Prehistoric Era tech tree, so here goes.

I have a half dozen Myth buildings for the new tech Nocturnalism.

Some of the requirements for some of the techs seem to be there just to justify where the tech appears on the tree, for example "Ceremonial Burial". I agree that it is in the correct place for how much it should cost to learn but think its only requirement should be "Ritualism". However having it set that way would make the "tree" untidy. Similarly "Megafauna Domestication" should have three "or"( not "and") requirements. In this case you would end up with a mess of arrows. Although I do think "Animal Riding" may belong in the next era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

As for prereqs also keep in mind its primary reason to be invented is for a better place to unlock rogues. Very cool you have more stuff to validate it though!

 

[Yudishtira]

I can't find the existing discussion on the "new and improved" Prehistoric Era tech tree, so here goes.

I have a half dozen Myth buildings for the new tech Nocturnalism.

Some of the requirements for some of the techs seem to be there just to justify where the tech appears on the tree, for example "Ceremonial Burial". I agree that it is in the correct place for how much it should cost to learn but think its only requirement should be "Ritualism". However having it set that way would make the "tree" untidy. Similarly "Megafauna Domestication" should have three "or"( not "and") requirements. In this case you would end up with a mess of arrows. Although I do think "Animal Riding" may belong in the next era.

I suspected this would happen when I heard wholesale changes were being made purely for the purpose of 'tidying up'. I vote for messy arrows rather than messy inappropriate requirements.

@Everyone, please have the debate now and decide once and for all which of these takes precedence. To me it's a no-brainer so hopefully consensus will not be long in coming (and the 'right' decision will be arrived at).

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm looking at the latest proposal and Ceremonial Burial is not given as a prereq for Nocturnalism. Slavery is where the arrow comes from, which is the source of discontentment that causes the rebelliousness that promotes the advancement of criminal behaviors to generate the Rogue. AND prereqs are Hunting Tactics, which this tech is almost an extension of directly since it is night hunting that introduces the bravery for some to start considering the night to be their primary activity zone in a time before lighting technology surpasses the fire pit. Arithmetic is also necessary to explain the improvements in the criminalism that explains the manifestation of the Rogue, and of course, if Theft isn't taken, you should never be able to consider upgrading to Rogues.

The selections aren't random or just to justify the placement in the tree.

 

[Yudishtira]

I'm looking at the latest proposal and Ceremonial Burial is not given as a prereq for Nocturnalism. Slavery is where the arrow comes from, which is the source of discontentment that causes the rebelliousness that promotes the advancement of criminal behaviors to generate the Rogue. AND prereqs are Hunting Tactics, which this tech is almost an extension of directly since it is night hunting that introduces the bravery for some to start considering the night to be their primary activity zone in a time before lighting technology surpasses the fire pit. Arithmetic is also necessary to explain the improvements in the criminalism that explains the manifestation of the Rogue, and of course, if Theft isn't taken, you should never be able to consider upgrading to Rogues.

The selections aren't random or just to justify the placement in the tree.

To be fair, DH was criticizing the prereqs for Ceremonial Burial and Megafauna Dom, and never said CB was a prereq for Nocturnalism, nor complained about Nocturnalism's prereqs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

To be fair, DH was criticizing the prereqs for Ceremonial Burial and Megafauna Dom, and never said CB was a prereq for Nocturnalism, nor complained about Nocturnalism's prereqs.

I see. I completely misread his post then. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[raxo2222]

@KaTiON_PT how far you are in remodeling Prehistoric and Information eras?

 

[KaTiON_PT]

@raxo2222 Still on it! I have been quite busy with work these pasts few months...

 

[raxo2222]

@pepper2000 Global Governance tech (needs Globalization and is in Atomic era) could be used for something.
Its "ghost" in mod for 11 years

It seems like original author (most likely original RoM) added tech, wanted to do something with it and then it was put in locked for some reason.
And then later everyone who noticed this tech no one knew what was use for it.

Tech is referenced only in XML files meaning its regular tech without any deeper attachments (no events, python/c++ code).
There is no such tech in vanilla game.