Tech Tree Revisions

[Vokarya]

Dualism: In my module I renamed it to Ethics so I could add some tricks to it (City States civic iirc).
Polytheism: I always thought of it as Mythology (and plan to rename it in my module). I think Mythology can cover everything that Polytheism can and even more.

This is workable. Ethics would fit into the tech tree better to lead into Code of Laws without too much risk of doubling religions because of the additional need for Monarchy. I would probably make Ethics require either Priesthood or Trade.
Mythology is also good. It could take over Oracle; Priesthood has 7.5 tricks right now. I'm also looking for a way to to divide up Ceremonial Burial. I don't like having so many religious techs in the Ancient Era, and I'd like to increase Ritualism/Mysticism to the point where I can carve out Stargazing. Mythology could take over Pyramids. Alternatively, Priesthood could keep Oracle but require Mythology.

Ship Building, Fermentation, Sculpture and Warfare are 4 of the 7 techs in that column that can be moved. Move any 3 of them and we have 2 columns having 4-4 techs.

(Or am I missing something important?)

You are missing something very important. Each column contains only techs of the same level, and I want to keep all of the techs at a given level in the same column, but a level could be split into 2 columns if it has 9 or more techs (Ancient-3, Classical-2, Medieval-2, Transhuman-2, and Transhuman-3 are all like that; if you see two columns with NO connections from a tech in the first column to a tech in the second, you're looking at one level that was split up). Scriptures would be the solitary tech at Ancient-5. Columns are also how I cost techs. Techs in the same column all have the same cost.

I'm seriously looking at moving Scriptures into the Classical and letting it move Judaism up. It would be one of the earliest techs in the era. The Judaism-Buddhism line would still be a potential problem, but I don't think it would be that bad.

 

[Arakhor]

I'd like to vote for Ethics and Mythology too.

 

[Vokarya]

This is coming together. I got the Medieval and Classical eras reconfigured (cutting Agricultural Tools, moving Machinery up to the Medieval, moving Naval Warfare up to the Classical) and I'm working on the late Ancient and first-column Classical Eras. The only question left is, should Mythology be required for Priesthood?

I'm trying to figure out what the new prerequisites should be for Monarchy and Scriptures. With Monotheism gone, I have Monarchy as Bronze Working + Trade + (Warfare OR Writing) and Scriptures as Priesthood + Writing + (Mythology OR Ethics).

If Mythology is required for Priesthood, then Mythology is redundant on Scriptures and Ethics is either mandatory or not required at all. Priesthood would be pushed up to level 4 and would be appropriate as a third OR prerequisite for Monarchy. If Mythology is not required, then I don't want Priesthood on Monarchy and we keep the OR prerequisites for Scriptures.

 

[<Nexus>]

This is coming together. I got the Medieval and Classical eras reconfigured (cutting Agricultural Tools, moving Machinery up to the Medieval, moving Naval Warfare up to the Classical) and I'm working on the late Ancient and first-column Classical Eras. The only question left is, should Mythology be required for Priesthood?

I am not against it but don't think it necessary.

I'm trying to figure out what the new prerequisites should be for Monarchy and Scriptures. With Monotheism gone, I have Monarchy as Bronze Working + Trade + (Warfare OR Writing) and Scriptures as Priesthood + Writing + (Mythology OR Ethics).

If Mythology is required for Priesthood, then Mythology is redundant on Scriptures and Ethics is either mandatory or not required at all. Priesthood would be pushed up to level 4 and would be appropriate as a third OR prerequisite for Monarchy. If Mythology is not required, then I don't want Priesthood on Monarchy and we keep the OR prerequisites for Scriptures.

Okay, than I'm rather leaning to say that Mythology should not be required for Priesthood to keep things simple.

Just an other idea:
If you wanna further increase the tricks of Mythology, than it could give +1 for Myths.

 

[Arakhor]

When do myths become obsolete?

 

[<Nexus>]

When do myths become obsolete?

Iirc Theology.

 

[Vokarya]

When do myths become obsolete?

Theology. I'm going to move Shrine to go obsolete at Theology as well.

 

[Arakhor]

Right-ho.

 

[Vokarya]

Just an other idea:
If you wanna further increase the tricks of Mythology, than it could give +1 for Myths.

I don't want to go there unless I really have to. I think giving Mythology Graveyard and Pyramids will be enough. I'm set on cutting out Ceremonial Burial and giving its tricks to other techs -- this will reduce the number of religious techs in the Ancient Era from 9 (Ritualism, Mysticism, Ceremonial Burial, Sacrifice, Polytheism, Priesthood, Dualism, Monotheism, Scriptures) to 5 (Ritualism, Mysticism, Mythology, Priesthood, Ethics). 9 out of 37 techs was really over-weighting religion; 5 out of 32 (after cutting Ceremonial Burial, Chariotry, and Sacrifice; moving Naval Warfare and Scriptures to the Classical Era; and adding Stargazing) is still a fair chunk but not horrible.

The other thing that might work here is another Myth. Stargazing will have 3 tricks; the Standing Stone and Stonehenge, and a fourth Myth (Myth of the Sky). I have decided that Myth of the Beast is not strong enough to be worth spending both your Myth slot and a Captured Animal. So this is a plan for reworking the Myths:

• Myth of the Hero: Unchanged.
• Myth of the Sea: Provides +1 food instead of +1 commerce.
• Myth of the Sky: New Myth, requires Stargazing, requires Peak in city vicinity. Provides +1 commerce, +1 science.
• Myth of the Beast: Provides +1 food/+1 production/+1 commerce.

So a fifth Myth that doesn't do the same thing as any of these would work as well.

 

[Arakhor]

Myth of the Wild, perhaps?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Myth of the Wild, perhaps?

Doesn't it sound too similar to the beast? We have Sea, Sky, Beast (water, air, earth), what about Fire?

 

[Arakhor]

I was thinking that perhaps you might want to rename Myth of the Beast to Myth of the Wild.

Fire's good though, but I could suggest Mountain as well.

 

[Vokarya]

Actually, I was leaning towards either Myth of the Sun or Myth of the Gods. It can be a little stronger than Sun/Sea, but not as strong as Beast.

 

[Vokarya]

Here is another thing. Can we move the Charity civic/Plague Hospital to Ethics? Trade is one of the highest trick-count-techs in the game (9.5 to 10.5, depending on how you count the free Trader unit for the first builder) and I would love to cut it down. I think this is a natural fit and it gives Ethics something that isn't one-shot. It has Zoroastrianism, Apadana Palace, and Hanging Gardens.

 

[Arakhor]

That sounds like an excellent idea (Charity, that is).

 

[Rezca]

That sounds like an excellent idea (Charity, that is).

I agree - sounds like a good place to put it as well.

 

[<Nexus>]

Actually, I was leaning towards either Myth of the Sun or Myth of the Gods. It can be a little stronger than Sun/Sea, but not as strong as Beast.

Myth of the Sun sounds too similar to Myth of the Sky, and Myth of the Gods feels like religion.
How about Myth of the Heavens instead of Sky/Sun/Gods. Heavens would cover all those.

Myth of the Dead (or Myth of Afterlife?) could also work. No ide for the effects though.


An other idea about Myths:
Instead of limiting them to 1/city couldn't we use the tag that modifies cost of an other building? Like having a myth in the city would increase the cost of all other myths by +500%; having two would mean +1000% and so on. You could build each and every with the right circumstances but would cost you more and more.

 

[Arakhor]

Oooh, I like Myth of the Heavens. I like the idea of Myth of the Dead, but I'm not sold on its name yet.

 

[Vokarya]

I think 4 major tricks for Mythology is enough, actually. It will have Graveyard, Kemetism, Pyramids (shared with Masonry), and Temple of Artemis. I feel like the Ancient Era should be the techs with the lowest average trick counts so you don't get too much too soon.

I'm sticking with Myth of the Sky. It's creating a counterpoint to Myth of the Sea and it's deliberately tied to Stargazing. I want the names as short as possible and I want the names to be reminders of what you have to do; Myth of the Sea requires a coastal city, Myth of the Sky requires a Peak, Myth of the Beast requires sacrificing a Captured Animal, and Myth of the Hero requires a level 3 unit.

I also want to keep the Myths as one per city; they're meant to serve as a prop to a new city in the Ancient or Classical eras, not a substantial bonus.

 

[<Nexus>]

I think 4 major tricks for Mythology is enough, actually. It will have Graveyard, Kemetism, Pyramids (shared with Masonry), and Temple of Artemis. I feel like the Ancient Era should be the techs with the lowest average trick counts so you don't get too much too soon.

Sorry, I thought you wanted a 5th myth too