Technologies relating to resource discoveries...

[Daftpanzer]

Apologies if there's already a thread like this...

What's always bugged me about Civ 3 and onwards is that you can research things like iron working, but then end up with no iron resources around, and are thus unable to build your swordsmen or whatever. Like, how did your people just learn that knowledge? Then you've wasted your research, everything is messed up, you neither get a powerful army or any wonders or religion in time, and you fail and burn, and everything is messed up. It seems you always take a risk with that. It annoys me a little, and I don't even try to play in a perfectionist way.

I propose the ability to research iron working should depend on there being such resources already in your territory, or close to it. Even if you can't see them on the map to know exactly where they are. Or something!

 

[pi-r8]

Yeah that's an interesting idea. Another method would to make it so that you can see the resource after you've partially researched the technology. Or offer the choice of doing "preliminary research" for a small extra cost, which would tell you where the resource is, if you don't want to gamble blindly on getting it.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

One mod that came out for Civ4 didn't prevent the study of resource-dependent techs, it simply meant that you got the tech faster if you had the resource. So, for instance, if you had stone or marble, you'd get masonry quicker-doubly quick if you had both. Same was true of Animal Husbandry & agriculture. Of course it requires a different approach to when-& how-you could hook up those resources (and when they'd show up), but it was a *very* good idea overall.

Aussie.

 

[Berba]

Yeah that's an interesting idea. Another method would to make it so that you can see the resource after you've partially researched the technology. Or offer the choice of doing "preliminary research" for a small extra cost, which would tell you where the resource is, if you don't want to gamble blindly on getting it.

Or maybe if the map shows off all resources but if you haven't researched like iron working and horseback riding, you'll just see the resource as a question mark or the same symbol for all undiscovered resources

 

[blade117]

^^^
That's a good idea.

 

[fandamage]

Well usually resources are revealed as sort of a secondary benefit for the tech (like Bronze Working is mainly important because it lets you choprush, and Iron Working is mainly important so you can colonize Jungles (on games with large masses, of course). So you rarely have to research a tech JUST to see a particular resource, and you mostly have to adapt your military strategy (and in turn your expansion and economic strategies) as you go along and find out what you do and don't have. That's one of the coolest things about Civ for me - that I will have to continusouly re-evaluate my position as more information becomes known, and adapt my build order and tech progression accordingly. If all resources are visible from the start, that detracts from the sense of exploration and adaptation that makes Civ so compelling for me and many other players.

 

[The_J]

iron working [...]iron resources [..] swordsmen or whatever.

You even don't know, if any of these things are in....

 

[Shiggs713]

I'll go out on a limb and say iron and swordsman are in.

it would be complete heresy otherwise...

 

[Carver]

Apologies if there's already a thread like this...

What's always bugged me about Civ 3 and onwards is that you can research things like iron working, but then end up with no iron resources around, and are thus unable to build your swordsmen or whatever. Like, how did your people just learn that knowledge? Then you've wasted your research, everything is messed up, you neither get a powerful army or any wonders or religion in time, and you fail and burn, and everything is messed up. It seems you always take a risk with that. It annoys me a little, and I don't even try to play in a perfectionist way.

I propose the ability to research iron working should depend on there being such resources already in your territory, or close to it. Even if you can't see them on the map to know exactly where they are. Or something!

Through the multiplicity of small exchanges of materials, knowledge, and tales that helps lead to intellectual and technological diffusion across the globe.

Someone discovers or acquires a small bit of iron. That person, or someone else, conducts some primitive study and/or expirimentation with the material. This gets the attention of leadership. The leadership then decides to fund a large-scale professional investigation into the material and what can be done with it - ironwokring!

 

[The_J]

@Shiggs: I assume the same .
I just wanted to say, that's complete nonsense to think about Civ5 when you base your thoughts on previous Civ mechanics.

 

[Shiggs713]

@Shiggs: I assume the same .
I just wanted to say, that's complete nonsense to think about Civ5 when you base your thoughts on previous Civ mechanics.

yea I'm not even sure why I engage in all these totally premature threads. Nevertheless we do what we do

 

[the343danny]

How about revealing some resources like iron and copper, but not other ones like coal and oil. Its much easier for a stone age person to see the potential in copper than oil, I would think, so a stone age person may remember where the copper or iron was, but care less where the oil was.

 

[Duuk]

In my personal mod, I reveal iron and copper with mining (still not usable until the proper tech, similar to how uranium is visible with physics but not usable until fission). I have horse revealed from go. But I also have all the fishing resources hidden until you have fishing.

Quirky of me, I guess.

 

[Daftpanzer]

In my personal mod, I reveal iron and copper with mining (still not usable until the proper tech, similar to how uranium is visible with physics but not usable until fission). I have horse revealed from go. But I also have all the fishing resources hidden until you have fishing.

Quirky of me, I guess.

I would like that kind of approach. Maybe even that a percursor tech randomly reveals 50% of the resources, then the tech that makes them usable will reveal the rest.

And yes, Civ without Swordsmen is vile heresy! Well I know they were Legions to start with, but, well never mind...

 

[Cipherium]

Apologies if there's already a thread like this...

What's always bugged me about Civ 3 and onwards is that you can research things like iron working, but then end up with no iron resources around, and are thus unable to build your swordsmen or whatever. Like, how did your people just learn that knowledge? Then you've wasted your research, everything is messed up, you neither get a powerful army or any wonders or religion in time, and you fail and burn, and everything is messed up. It seems you always take a risk with that. It annoys me a little, and I don't even try to play in a perfectionist way.

I propose the ability to research iron working should depend on there being such resources already in your territory, or close to it. Even if you can't see them on the map to know exactly where they are. Or something!

Word up. I agree with you completely that technology is based on resources and not resourced based on technology. Except for aluminum. And guns. And remember when CDs became junkmail? People started making art out of them x)

 

[draaibaar]

I agree. I also found it ridiculous when eg. you're unique unit needs horses and there are no horses around. That's like being a seafearing civ and not being at the coast.

 

[Chalks]

In my personal mod, I reveal iron and copper with mining (still not usable until the proper tech, similar to how uranium is visible with physics but not usable until fission). I have horse revealed from go. But I also have all the fishing resources hidden until you have fishing.

Quirky of me, I guess.

This sounds like the best solution. Have an earlier tech reveal the resource before you can utilise it where this makes sense.

Having horses revealed immediately makes sense - not being able to ride them doesn't make you unable to see them.

And fishing resources revealed with fishing makes sense too - unless you get out there and cast some nets, you probably won't know where the best fish are. And once you do, well, you're fishing.

Depends on the tech, but some stuff could do with a bit of tweaking to make it nicer this way.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Having horses revealed immediately makes sense - not being able to ride them doesn't make you unable to see them.

Yes, but there's still the problem that you would be unable to see the strategical use of horses until you actually discovered the technology. Would make you start positionning cities according to that whereas your people do not see the strategical use yet.

On the other hand, there's the fact that people started to SELECT horses in order to be able to ride them one day... I have no clue how they came to such an idea though, maybe it was purely random after all? Or maybe they just wanted stronger animals in order to them to pull heavier things, and dared one day to ride one of them.
How are the Aliens doing? Have they naturally found the idea to ride animals like on Earth, so that it be a logical step of the evolution, or is this a specificity of Earth?

 

[Chalks]

Yes, but there's still the problem that you would be unable to see the strategical use of horses until you actually discovered the technology. Would make you start positionning cities according to that whereas your people do not see the strategical use yet.

On the other hand, there's the fact that people started to SELECT horses in order to be able to ride them one day... I have no clue how they came to such an idea though, maybe it was purely random after all? Or maybe they just wanted stronger animals in order to them to pull heavier things, and dared one day to ride one of them.
How are the Aliens doing? Have they naturally found the idea to ride animals like on Earth, so that it be a logical step of the evolution, or is this a specificity of Earth?

I see what you're saying, but I think there's a difference between your race having the technology to ride horses into battle, and a handful of your people riding horses for transport and you thinking "ah, if we can improve this technology we can use it for military purposes, and there certainly are lots of horses around".

I mean, that certainly makes much more sense than spending years researching how to ride a particular animal just to have your advisors come to you when it's complete and say "sire, we have the ability to ride 'horses'. Unfortunately, these animals do not seem to exist in all the known world".

That really is a rather silly situation to find yourself in.

 

[Duuk]

Personally, I also like the idea of research bonuses for having the proper bonus within your borders, but I'm not sure how it would work.

For example, wouldn't you be pretty slow to develop horseback riding if you didn't have horses to ride?