Tell Firaxis what is making you nervous

[Skwink]

I cold install Windows, but it cost around $150. A little much to play video games, guess I'll go swim or hike or something else worthwhile.

 

[mjs0]

I'm more worried about the lack of MP info, at this point in the Civ4 dev process MP was at least being plugged alot by the 2K marketing machine, in Civ5 we know nothing...and if the game is released on 21 Sept then the Gold(code is set for release) has to be at least a month or more before that, so at least I'd say in the beginning of August. So we have maybe 45 ish days of development left and alot of details are missing completely. This doesn't give us a warm fuzzy feeling of course, going from Gamespy to Steamwork no doubt is alot of new learning on the part of the programmers and this might be the cause of the delay, but at least they could let us know their plans.

CS

With a traditional distribution approach this would be more of a concern but I suspect because they have decided on digital distribution (even the store bought copies will require connecting and downloading any patches before play) the concept of at least a month between code freeze and release is redundant.

A formal 'Gold' build for physical distribution that includes all media assets would keep any release day patch size small, and the code freeze for that patch could then take place much closer to release with just enough time to allow for final regression and installation testing.

The point being the stability of the Gold build is no longer critical because nobody can play with just that build; Steam will ensure the release day patch is installed before the game can be played. This buys them up to a month of additional development time.

 

[Svip]

Macs have very very small marketshare, esp. outside of USA. That have effect on software development decisions....

Eh. They are actually a significant portion of the targeted audience of people who play games, such as potential Civ5 players.

Sure, you can pull out a graph telling me that 89% of all desktops in private homes run Windows. But will all of these 89% purchase games? Because then the picture becomes quite different.

If you take the three biggest operating systems by market share (and Linux folks, don't get your penny in the nut because I called it a operating system for this comparison), you'll find that of the users of each, Linux has the largest percentage of potential or active gamers, while Windows has the fewest. Most people who use Windows just do it for the browsing and the emailing and the text processing.

For instance, only 4 weeks after Steam's introduction on the Mac platform, 8% of all Steam users are now running Mac OS X. I doubt that is all of them 10% of desktop users who use Mac OS X. And I expect this number to rise steadily over the Summer and Autumn.

I think, and this is just a guess, Mac OS X ranges in on a 20-30% of potential customers. That, in my mind, is too big to ignore.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

With a traditional distribution approach this would be more of a concern but I suspect because they have decided on digital distribution (even the store bought copies will require connecting and downloading any patches before play) the concept of at least a month between code freeze and release is redundant.

A formal 'Gold' build for physical distribution that includes all media assets would keep any release day patch size small, and the code freeze for that patch could then take place much closer to release with just enough time to allow for final regression and installation testing.

The point being the stability of the Gold build is no longer critical because nobody can play with just that build; Steam will ensure the release day patch is installed before the game can be played. This buys them up to a month of additional development time.

That maybe the case to a point, but it still takes time to QA the released version even if you have a planned 0 day patch and can work on that until 3 weeks or so before release(patches need QA too ofcourse). Firaxis has it's own QA but final QA is done by 2K traditionally as the producer, and even with digital distribution this all takes time and man hours to accomplish.

In the end even if there is less of a production reason for the delay, it is bad marketing to not plug a major part of the game to your customers.

CS

 

[astrognash]

My biggest concern is that DLC which must be purchased could severely limit modders.

 

[Auncien]

I'm worried that they might go for a larger market for a true civilization game when in fact such a larger market does not exist. If you want people who don't play strategy games to play then you can't sell them a strategy game. It's that simple.

I'm worried that they may sacrifice depth and sophisticated emergent challenges that define the series for a Civilization Revolution on PC with slightly darker graphics.

That being said I simply don't have enough information yet to confirm or set aside these fears. So I'll wait. Hopefully this week will provide the answers we're all looking for.

I want to play Civ V for YEARS, not days. I want it to continue to surprise and challenge me during that time. The rule of thirds is fine but I firmly believe that each PC Civ game should have more than its predecessors, not less.

 

[the343danny]

Where did you guys hear that Civ V wasnt compatible with Macs? Steam now supports Macs and you can buy one game and have both PC and Mac versions without paying any extra. Whether its compatible with Macs is at the discretion of the developer, and I dont think Firaxis would want to abandon our fellow civvers who use Macs.

 

[Skwink]

The Aspyr rep here on the Mac CivIV section said they weren't working on it. Aspyr has made III and IV.

 

[bjbrains]

At this point, I'm not going to let myself get "nervous" simply because (gasp) the game is still months away from release, and our information is incomplete to an incredible degree. I'd only ever get worried if I saw gameplay from a final or near-final build. It's understandable, but it's not rational.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

The Aspyr rep here on the Mac CivIV section said they weren't working on it.

Well, after having bought Civ IV for the Mac from Aspyr and then getting so disgusted with it that I ended up buying the Windows version and dual-booting, let me say that this is actually very good news.

It would be nice if Firaxis could come clean about this, though.

 

[Skwink]

Really? I am running it just fine on my Macbook.

 

[Rebel44]

I cold install Windows, but it cost around $150. A little much to play video games, guess I'll go swim or hike or something else worthwhile.

Win7 OEM licence can be easily bought under 100 bucks.

People who waste so much money by buying Mac (compared to notebook/PC with same specs) shouldnt complain how expensive is OS which you are going to need to play most games...

 

[Thyrwyn]

What makes me nervous? Having to wait until September to play the game

 

[Provost Martin]

Am I the only one really tired of the use of political correctness? It seems that whenever someone says something that is well founded and really thought out that person is immediately flamed for political correctness. It's really spreading like the plague. As for this case I'd hardly call it PC since it's really the other way around to word it as they did on the official web site. It has nothing to do with PC.

 

[civ_king]

Macs have very very small marketshare, esp. outside of USA. That have effect on software development decisions....

What % do you think Macs have?

Yep. Screw mac. I'd rather they save the money and put it on better testing & more features.

Harsh, perhaps, but it's not even a real issue since you can install Windows on it via bootcamp and whatever else will be available when it is released.

*edit* Forgot the big UH OH with Mac, also. You can't mod it properly since it won't have .DLLs (this is under the assumption that they're even gonna use it for Civ 5). You're better off using bootcamp.

1) That isn't how business works
2) The general reason to get a Mac is to not use Windows (and for Final Cut Pro if your in AV)
3) dylibs work just the same (well they can't screw up the OS...)

I cold install Windows, but it cost around $150. A little much to play video games, guess I'll go swim or hike or something else worthwhile.

sounds like a good idea to me

Eh. They are actually a significant portion of the targeted audience of people who play games, such as potential Civ5 players.

Sure, you can pull out a graph telling me that 89% of all desktops in private homes run Windows. But will all of these 89% purchase games? Because then the picture becomes quite different.

If you take the three biggest operating systems by market share (and Linux folks, don't get your penny in the nut because I called it a operating system for this comparison), you'll find that of the users of each, Linux has the largest percentage of potential or active gamers, while Windows has the fewest. Most people who use Windows just do it for the browsing and the emailing and the text processing.

For instance, only 4 weeks after Steam's introduction on the Mac platform, 8% of all Steam users are now running Mac OS X. I doubt that is all of them 10% of desktop users who use Mac OS X. And I expect this number to rise steadily over the Summer and Autumn.

I think, and this is just a guess, Mac OS X ranges in on a 20-30% of potential customers. That, in my mind, is too big to ignore.

some people might still be using Windows Steam for games that aren't OS X yet, but I think 30% is unrealistic

Where did you guys hear that Civ V wasnt compatible with Macs? Steam now supports Macs and you can buy one game and have both PC and Mac versions without paying any extra. Whether its compatible with Macs is at the discretion of the developer, and I dont think Firaxis would want to abandon our fellow civvers who use Macs.

They likely wont have a Mac version on release

Win7 OEM licence can be easily bought under 100 bucks.

People who waste so much money by buying Mac (compared to notebook/PC with same specs) shouldnt complain how expensive is OS which you are going to need to play most games...

maybe they wanted a computer free of bloatware (which subsidizes PCs) that comes with iLife (equivalent software IIRC is ~$400)? or they fill niches,

Try to find an all in one computer as good as an iMac

 

[astrognash]

maybe they wanted a computer free of bloatware (which subsidizes PCs) that comes with iLife (equivalent software IIRC is ~$400)? or they fill niches,

Try to find an all in one computer as good as an iMac

Is Apple just sticking a lowercase "i" in front of everything these days?


Also, in order that we stay on topic (somewhat):

I've decided that I'm also nervous about custom leaders. I'm worried that they won't even be possible.

 

[Skwink]

I too are worried about custom leaders. These ones seem quite hard to customize. What does that little i even mean?

 

[Earthling]

It is looking more and more like a military simulation, not a Civ game. All I keep hearing about is huge armies, large battles, ranged combat, city defense -- not economic models, research programs, or space races. The market is full of war games, but there is only one Civ franchise. I'm afraid the focus has been changed.

This is about my only big one, but I'll expand on perhaps things I see differently or am just more worried about:

The actual gameplay will be more limited, simplified, and "easier" without leaving the player as much opportunity for replayability and enjoyment. And, in a roundabout way, all the talk about combat etc... just serves to try to HIDE this.

One problem here, common to many game developers of course, is the focus on updating "eye-candy," graphics and stuff etc... and not improving gameplay. 3D animations, talking leaderheads, whatever, all that stuff I would not put as a priority, the things that serve virtually no function, but will take up lots of memory and programming and processing time and make for good advertisements and promotions.

Then, you have the major example of the CivRevolution game, which plays extremely different from any real civ franchise game, and isn't what most longtime fans are probably looking for in civ 5. In an attempt to open up for new demographics or new gameplay or whatever, civ 5 could end up removing a lot of features (see: religion, being another one) to make the game simpler and shorter for new players.

So when we get back around to military, what are the concerns?

-One-unit-per-tile, and everything implied about that, including that the size of maps, and armies, and civilizations will be limited. People say civ IV is "small" compared to civ III, where maps and games could be huge and epic - well, they haven't seen anything yet, because I've seen nothing to assuage my worries that this will be a much larger problem with civ 5. This is essentially what I quoted, that civilization is not a wargame, and the more people beg for "highly tactical unit battles (insert 'real-time' or 'reference another game series' here)" and stuff, that's actually what we will get.

-The AI, even through no fault of the developers, because it is AI after all, will just suck. Part of this cannot be helped and has to be accepted. However, features may introduced or designed in a way that lead to further brokenness - with new tactics and gameplay and most important to player-AI interaction, war and diplomacy, the AI could either always be hopelessly incompetent, or the game will be built with so many of those "cheats" that civ players in general are always begging them to get rid of, and rightly so, since they can be annoying. And this is what kills replayability above all. Civilization 5 will simply NOT succeed as a multiplayer game for the casual gamer, I can say it now, and eat one of my TF2 hats if I'm wrong. Because civilization games take too long and are too complicated to play multiplayer for the average complete newbie - and that's ok, they work for fans who are committed and of the course the epic single player is the core of it. But if things are simplified, streamlined, dumbed-down, then that core of the game and its lasting appeal is what gets detracted.

Again, as I've said elsewhere, I do hope to enjoy the game and a lot of new things sound cool and promising...hex tiles for instance but these are the worries I would want to get through.

 

[Rebel44]

What % do you think Macs have?

maybe they wanted a computer free of bloatware (which subsidizes PCs) that comes with iLife (equivalent software IIRC is ~$400)? or they fill niches,

Try to find an all in one computer as good as an iMac

1. Globally 3% marketshare last time I checked.

2. I can get similar software for free... I said to buy separate OEM licence for Win7 and install whatever free (or paid) software user wants/needs.

3. I build my own PCs (if you want better OEM PC than apple and you can waste money, just buy from Alienware etc.) and all of my PC are much more powerfull that any Mac with similar price and even most of the much more expensive Macs offered at that time.

Macs have only horsehockey options for SSDs (no option for SSDs based on Intel G2 or Sandforce controller ATM) and very limited options for GPUs. Another thing is that PSUs supplied with Macs are crap compared to PSUs like Seasonic X series.

 

[Skwink]

Alright rebel, good points. But Macs last way longer than PCs. My old iMac G4 is 9 years old, and my Compaq XP is dead after two years of usage. It was never online, so no viruses. Also, my OS for mac, 10.6, cost me around $10. i check to price of Win 7, and the Home version is $150! But I guess thats because it was a big step up from Vista.