Term 1 Censor's Office - Proposed Procedures for Official Polling

[Octavian X]

The office of the Censor, as decreed by Section 1.B.IIIB.1, is in charge of creating the rules for and validating official polls. Official polls, as defined by the current Constitution, carry a great deal of weight as an initiative or referendum of the citizenry.

To that end, I am proposing the following procedures for review before I officially adopt them. This is a new office, so I do need some time to work out the kinks. I'm thinking that these are something like the judicial procedures that the judiciary applies for itself, so guided my thoughts while writing.

Another note - I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here. A lot of the official polling stuff is derived from the excellent work of the old Polling Standards Commissions. Thanks guys.

The (proposed) Procedures of the Censor of the Citizen's Assembly
Term 1

• Official Polls for Initiative and Referendum
  1. To be validated as an official poll with the weight of an Initiative or Referendum as defined in Article C.1.2 of the Constitution and other forms of law, the poll must meet the following standards:
     • The question and answers must be stated clearly and fairly.
     • The minimum duration of a poll is 2 days.
     • The number of votes must exceed 1/4 the census - for the current term, it is 9 votes.
     • Polls must be public except for those which must be private due to requirements of higher laws.
     • The results of polls which meet these guidelines will be tracked in an official poll index.
  2. It is highly recommended, though not required, that some previous discussion on a subject exist before a poll is started.
  3. The Censor and the Deputy Censor shall be responsible for validating polls that meet these criteria (though the Censor may overturn the decisions of his deputy).
  4. A post confirming the validity of the poll will be placed in the polls thread, as well as recorded in the official thread of the Censor in the Polls subforum.
  5. Validation must occur within 48 hours of the poll's closure, after which point the poll is assumed valid until either the Censor or Deputy Censor has a chance to review the poll.
  6. For purposes of conflict resolution, a poll may have its validation status changed at any time after the initial decision is made, though validation must be judged by the standards in effect when the poll was first created. That is, all polls may not be judge based on ex post facto changes to these procedures.
  7. If you are confused or have questions about a good poll, it is recommended that you read the excellent Definitive Guide to Polling by old demogamer Almightyjosh for helpful information.
• Official Polls for Recall
  1. Polls calling for the Recall of an official as defined by Article C.1.2 of the Constitution and relevant parts of Section 7 (Impeachment) of the Code of Laws must meet all standards listed above in Section A of these Procedures, except that they must meet these additional standards
     • Recall Polls must be open for a minimum of 96 hours.
     • Votes in a recall poll must be private.
     • Requirements detailed for specific offices in all higher forms of law must be met.
  2. Citizens are reminded to be civil in all matters relating to recalls. The moderators may intervene as they deem necessary.
• Elections
  1. Nominations
     • Nominations for elections shall begin 8 days before the end of the current month (and therefore 8 days before the end of a term).
     • Nomination threads for all offices shall be posted in the main Civ4 Democracy Game forum at approximately 0:00 GMT of that first day by either the Censor, the Deputy Censor, or by another citizen appointed by the Censor.
     • The first post of the nomination thread shall contain a summary of the duties of the office in question, as defined in other relevant forms of law.
     • In case of planned absence, a nomination, self-nomiantion, acceptance, or rejection of a nomination for a specific office may be registered in advance of the nomination period with the Censor.
     • A citizen who is banned from the forum for any reason may register nominations, acceptances, and rejections of nominations through a private message or e-mail to the Censor.
     • A citizen must accept any nomination (or be self-nominated) to be placed in the election.
     • A citizen may accept only ONE nomination. In cases where a citizen accepted multiple nominations, only the first acceptance shall be considered valid.
     • Nominations for an office close when the poll for the election of that office is posted. A link to the election thread shall be posted in the nomination thread.
  2. Debates
     • Debates may occur in both nomination and election threads.
     • Citizens are reminded to be civil in these debates. The moderators may intervene as they deem necessary.
  3. Election Polls
     • Elections shall begin approximately four days after nominations were originally posted, and shall end four days after are posted.
     • Individual threads with polls shall be posted for all contested elections.
     • The results for elections that have only one contestant or which had no contestants shall be validated after all polls for contested elections have been posted.
     • Evidence of fraudulent elections (such as the creation of double-logins for additional votes) shall be evaluated by the Moderators, who may alter the validated results if it is determined that cheating has occured.
     • All regulations for elections in the Constititon and Code of Laws, and any other relevant higher forms of law, shall always apply.
• Amendments to the Procedures
  1. The Censor may propose and make amendments to the Procedures of his Office at any time, provided they are annouced and discussed 72 hours before they take effect.
  2. An amendment may also be made through an official poll.
• Disputes
  1. The Censor shall always attempt to resolved disputes over portions of these Procedures with citizens as they arise. If not acceptable resolution may be reached, however, the dispute may be taken to the Judiciary where these Procedures shall be applied as a form of law and ruled upon as such.
  2. As a lower form of law created and applied by a single office, the Rules of the Civilization Fanatic's Forum, the Constition, and Code of Laws, as well as any other laws created by the Citizen's Assembly shall always take precedence.

Changes
- reworded poll requirements as suggested by DaveShack
- made some numbering changes
- reworded some of the Section B stuff on recalls.
Comments and questions are expected and welcomed. I tried to cover everything that was relevant to this office - I especially would appreciate it if someone would point out any oversights I might have made.

 

[RoboPig]

may i suggest that section A1A be changed to 48 hours for binding polls and 24 for non binding (if there are any non-binding) since that allows you to chip in if you are away that day and that is quite important for binding poll. a non binding poll would only be opinion, so it should stay at a 24 hour discussion before becoming a poll. the same time change should be in section A1G

also all polls, not just recall polls should be private

 

[RegentMan]

also all polls, not just recall polls should be private

This topic has been beaten to death. Most polls will be public for different reasons, one of the most important reasons is to make sure that only registered users vote in the polls.

The procedures look fine, but with some of the votes discounted in the elections, would that change the quorum number?

 

[RoboPig]

This topic has been beaten to death. Most polls will be public for different reasons, one of the most important reasons is to make sure that only registered users vote in the polls.

The procedures look fine, but with some of the votes discounted in the elections, would that change the quorum number?

no, now we have a demogame members group, so all p[olls can be private.

also, the censor election was not manipulated. so 9 should be the number

 

[Ginger_Ale]

no, now we have a demogame members group, so all p[olls can be private.

also, the censor election was not manipulated. so 9 should be the number

Sure, they can be. Heck, we can have no polls. We can have public polls. We can have one person make decisions. We can even have no discussion. We can keep talking in hypotheticals like this.

Why change if it works? It doesn't do any harm, and it makes things easier on us. Plus, it allows US to check who voted in a poll. Only Thunderfall can check private polls. I seriously doubt he has the need or inclination to view the results of all DG polls. Let's keep them public.

 

[DaveShack]

We're supposed to be kinda like the assembly members for the "real" civ we're playing, right? In the US at least, congressional votes are part of the public record, and you can look at each Representative and Senator's voting record. The DG should be the same way, with public polls.

I don't like the idea of complicated procedures at all. Too much complexity has the danger that a perfectly good decision will be overturned on a technicality. We'll see the losing side of each and every poll examining it under a microscope to find ways to stop the decision from being carried out.

 

[RoboPig]

We're supposed to be kinda like the assembly members for the "real" civ we're playing, right? In the US at least, congressional votes are part of the public record, and you can look at each Representative and Senator's voting record. The DG should be the same way, with public polls.

I don't like the idea of complicated procedures at all. Too much complexity has the danger that a perfectly good decision will be overturned on a technicality. We'll see the losing side of each and every poll examining it under a microscope to find ways to stop the decision from being carried out.

how about we set up a poll to determine whether all polls should be private or public? i'll contact octavian
EDIT: THe censor has been contacted. now we wait

 

[Octavian X]

Public/Private votes - I'm working with precedent that was set back when we first got the option to hold public votes. I haven't heard enough outcry for something we've been doing frequently even in this game to justify a change in procedure.

And, DaveShack, I know it does look complicated, but it's not something I'm worrying about. It boils down to clear questions and answers, 24 hours discussion and polling, a public vote, and a minimum of nine votes. My plan was to create an 'Official Polling' thread in the polls forum that would include a tracking of all validated official polls, and a simple, plain-English guilde to the requirements (along with a link to AJ's guide).

 

[Blkbird]

A.1.j: "The poll must be public [...]"

This would offending our Code of Laws in case the poll affects one or several citizens personally.

CoL 3.A.II.D: "Official polls should be marked Public unless directly concerning another Citizen."

 

[Octavian X]

A.1.j: "The poll must be public [...]"

This would offending our Code of Laws in case the poll affects one or several citizens personally.

CoL 3.A.II.D: "Official polls should be marked Public unless directly concerning another Citizen."

I'm assuming only impeachment/recall votes would personally affect other citizens - I cannot think of any other type of poll which would deal with individual citizens. Thus, section B (which, in retrospect, should be numbered: "Votes in a recall poll must be private..."

 

[Blkbird]

I'm assuming only impeachment/recall votes would personally affect other citizens - I cannot think of any other type of poll which would deal with individual citizens.

That's a very bad practice, assuming something doesn't exist just because you can't think of any.

For instance, there might be a poll like "Shall we charge XYZ with the job of doing a musical performing of our national anthem (because he's got an own band)?" That would be a poll directly affecting citizen XYZ, wouldn't it?

 

[DaveShack]

Public/Private votes - I'm working with precedent that was set back when we first got the option to hold public votes. I haven't heard enough outcry for something we've been doing frequently even in this game to justify a change in procedure.

And, DaveShack, I know it does look complicated, but it's not something I'm worrying about. It boils down to clear questions and answers, 24 hours discussion and polling, a public vote, and a minimum of nine votes. My plan was to create an 'Official Polling' thread in the polls forum that would include a tracking of all validated official polls, and a simple, plain-English guilde to the requirements (along with a link to AJ's guide).

OK then how about this:

• The question and answers must be stated clearly and fairly.
• Discussion must be open for 24 hours before posting a poll
• The minimum duration of a poll is 24 hours.
• The number of votes must exceed 1/4 the census.
• Polls must be public except for those which must be private due to requirements of higher laws
• The results of polls which meet these guidelines will be tracked in an official poll index.

The whole thing is smaller than the standard size post editing window, you don't have to scroll your browser to read it. I don't recall if your version actually does need to be scrolled, just got that impression.

 

[ravensfire]

• The results of polls which meet these guidelines will be tracked in an official poll index.

Other than that one, looks good.

This is the first term, and the procedures created here will probably be a template for the rest of the game. The above requirement is just asking to be ignored. Given that there are people with a history of nit-picking when they choose to, let's not create a rule that provides minimal benefit and opens a potential can of worms.

-- Ravensfire

 

[DaveShack]

A.1.j The poll must be public, and may not be restricted on the basis of membership in the forum's Civ4 Democracy Game group.

(underline added for emphasis)

Is this a typo and it should say may be restricted?

If it's not a typo, I don't think it's technically possible now to not restrict polls based on the user group. Even if it is possible, the results of the recent voting fraud investigation have already revealed that at least one non-election poll was affected. If you really want to have the member group affect just elections and not ordinary polls, I think the best approach would be to approach Rik and Chieftess -- but I don't expect them to agree.

 

[DaveShack]

• bullet about tracking polls in a registry

Other than that one, looks good.

This is the first term, and the procedures created here will probably be a template for the rest of the game. The above requirement is just asking to be ignored. Given that there are people with a history of nit-picking when they choose to, let's not create a rule that provides minimal benefit and opens a potential can of worms.

Well, you do have a point there. I generally argue against registries because they are not kept up. In this case I was just trying to illustrate how to simplify what Oct wrote, not necessarily to imply all the points are good ideas.

 

[Octavian X]

My goal with the official poll index is twofold - to better track those which have been declared official (especially given that we won't always be guarenteed a working forum search, and that it's just difficult to find anything with the Google search) and as a reference tool for the past, so officials and citizens can know with ease what our official stances are and (hopefully) reduce redunant polling. It'd be a simple registry that the Censor maintains with a link to the poll, the poll's question, and it's results.

If it's not a typo, I don't think it's technically possible now to not restrict polls based on the user group. Even if it is possible, the results of the recent voting fraud investigation have already revealed that at least one non-election poll was affected. If you really want to have the member group affect just elections and not ordinary polls, I think the best approach would be to approach Rik and Chieftess -- but I don't expect them to agree.

As for that, well... Given the grey area I'm working with here, that and all other references to the forum group will be removed for the time being. I did mean to say "may not," as I'd hope we'd notice that an open poll may have been tampered with. In fact, I don't even know HOW to post such polls...

By the way, thanks for rewrite, DaveShack. The first post will be updated soon to reflect some of those changes.

 

[DaveShack]

I noticed this, which would be a violation of forum rules. If someone is banned, nobody is allowed to post material for them.

A citizen who is banned from the forum for any reason may register nominations, acceptances, and rejections of nominations through a private message or e-mail to the Censor.

 

[Blkbird]

I noticed this, which would be a violation of forum rules. If someone is banned, nobody is allowed to post material for them.

I cannot find a forum rule to that effect. In fact, the word "ban" doesn't even occur in the forum rules:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumRules.shtml

 

[Rik Meleet]

It's a good tradition to have Non-personal polls Public and personal polls (such as elections and courtcases) private.

@banned: Banned is banned. It's a punishment (amongst other things). The banned member should not post, not even indirectly. BTW, I'm not sure if a banned member can technically vote, or is technically blocked from voting.

 

[Octavian X]

It just seems unfair to me, as circumstances will always vary. It could be an indiscrestion in OT that causes, for sake of an example, a three-day ban that causes the person to miss out on the nominating. I think of it as something like prenominating that we usually allow in case of absence.