Term 4 ~ Judiciary

[donsig]

Oh yeh, that reminds me of ravensfire's suggestion of creating a template for these, I will get to that when I have some free time to avoid further confusion.

I think someone already made up a good template in term one. It's probably in the term 1 judiciary thread. All you have to do is find it and copy in where others can easily access it.

 

[Black_Hole]

DG1JR12
Question: Are Initiatives considered Official polls, and thus subject to verification by the Censor?
Submitted by: ravensfire
Judge Advocates Ruling:

The right to make an initiative is protected in the constitution because it is citizens guaranteed way to make decisions. These are fundamental to our democracy. An initiative is legal order of what should be done. As well as being a tool of democracy the Initiative is also very powerful.

Polls are made Official because they are legally binding, because they have an effect game. Because this is a Democracy anything that has an effect on the game must be fair and true. This is why we have a censor to ensure all game decisions are fair and true. So that Democracy takes its course.



As citizen shack has pointed out, an initiative is a legally binding poll that directly affects the game. As such the censor has a legal responsibility to ensure that these polls are fair and true.

This means that is an initiative is an official poll and is subject to verification by the censor.

Is your ruling based on the intent of the law? If so I ask you to respectfully rethink your reasoning. (I am not agreeing or disagreeing with your outcome, but the reason you came to it)

 

[Nobody]

No, i just voted daveshack because he said what i thought, A Binding poll measn its legal. If its legal it is offical. I think its pretty obvious that any poll that affects the game should be checked to make sure its fair and thats the censors role.

 

[DaveShack]

Please post your comments on whether or not I should recuse myself from these cases.

[edit]
The following reply is with respect to JR 12. I don't think there is any need for a pro-tem for the amendment JR based on partial authorship of the amendment. If there were such a restriction, I'd be prohibited from serving in the judiciary based on having written the Constitution.
[/edit]

There are two answers to this question.

From the leadership viewpoint, it has often been said throughout history that a leader should not ask others to do something unless the leader is willing to do the same thing. This concept if often called leading by example. The leadership by example approach to these recusal opportunities would be to assume that some reasonable citizen might think there is a chance that a ruling might not be truly impartial. Under that assumption, if you want others to recuse themselves under similar circumstances, you need to provide the example and show that you're not just talking about impartiality, but living it.

From the technical viewpoint, it is reasonable to ask if you think you can rule impartially on the cases, as Ravensfire has already one. I will point out to everyone that impartiality does not mean not having an opinion on a subject. You may have already decided how to rule on such a case, even before it is brought. A question of impartiality must ask, can you rule correctly on the basis of the law, even when such a ruling will damage yourself in some way. Two factors must be considered in answering that question -- an honest appraisal of your own thoughts, and consideration of whether the people will accept the answer.

If it were me, I think I'd probably use a pro-tem, especially if it had been me who just tried to force someone else to do the same thing, in circumstances which weren't all that different.

 

[DaveShack]

No, i just voted daveshack because he said what i thought

I suspect you meant quoted instead of voted, right?

 

[Nobody]

yes i meant quoted

 

[donsig]

If it were me, I think I'd probably use a pro-tem, especially if it had been me who just tried to force someone else to do the same thing, in circumstances which weren't all that different.

The current cases are different in a very important respect: they can have no impact whatsoever on whether I am legally a justice during this term. If there was any doubt about the legality of my judicial position I would not hesitate to recuse myself from any cases brought to resolve that issue.

The current cases are similar in this repect: we have another circular dilemma with a justice deciding on something important to him. Last term, if the court had decided Nobody's appoint was legal then Curufinwe's appointment would have been rendered illegal making his (Curufinwe's) decision on the case questionable. (If he wasn't CJ, then how could he rule on the case?) And of course Curufinwe's position as CJ depended on the court's (and therefore Curufinwe's) decison. This term the court is called upon to decide whether the Censor has authority to validate or invalidate citizen initiative polls. This decision will have a direct impact on a citizen initiative I brought regarding whether or not justices should rule on cases directly affecting them. A resounding NO was given, but the poll was invalidated by the Censor. If the court rules the Censor has no authority to invalidate the poll then we must consider the initative to be in effect. Under this scenario, if I rule on the case then I'd be violating the initiative.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be for me to voluntarily recuse myself to not only avoid any possibility of conflict of interest, but to lead by example as DaveShack as pointed out. Believe it or not, I've tried to do just that throughout this game. Last term, as a citizen, I tried setting an example for citizens, tried showing them that they have the power in this game, not officials. This term, as an official, the example I should be setting is that officials should actively seek citizen's desires and then implement them. So, the thing to do is post a citizen iniative poll on this subject and let the citizens decide. I will see what can be done about that.

 

[donsig]

Is donsig directly affected by JR12?

Please vote in this poll.

 

[Strider]

I would like to (once again) put this amendment to the Code of Laws up for Judicial Review:

Proposed poll is found here

Discussion thread is found here

Element A. The Government
The Government shall consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the nation.

Element B. The Executive Branch
The Executive Branch of Government shall consist of the Office of President, as well as the several Advisors. These Advisors post discussions and polls over duties they are charged with as listed below.

Section 1. Office of the President
The President shall be the Head of State of the nation, as well as the leader of the Executive Branch of Government. Specifically, the President shall be responsible for coordinating the efforts his various Advisors. The President shall also be responsible for any duty not specifically assigned to any of the Advisors, including the management of the budget and of the slider, as well as Civic choices for the nation.

Section 2. Office of War
The foremost priority of the Office of War in both peacetime and war shall be the defense of the nation. The War Advisor shall be responsible for the management of all offensive and defensive units. The Advisor shall also be responsible for tactical and strategic planning during war. The Advisor may assign military units to the Office of Foreign Affairs as the Advisor shall see fit.

Section 3. Office of Culture
The Cultural Advisor shall be responsible for the movement of settlers, as well as planning for city placement. The Advisor shall also be charged with the formation of national boundaries and the monitoring of national culture levels. The Office of Culture shall also be tasked with placement of Wonders of all types, as well as overseeing the spread of religion, though the Cultural Advisor shall not initiate Civic changes. The Advisor shall also monitor Great People Points, and shall control all Great Artists and Great Prophets.

Section 4. Office of Foreign Affairs
The Foreign Affairs Advisor shall be charged with the negotiation of treaties, as well as all espionage-related activities. The Advisor shall also be responsible for all exploration activity, and therefore shall control all non-military scouting units (including Scouts, Explorers, Caravels, etc., and other units that may be assigned to the Office of Foreign Affairs by the Office of War as the War Advisor may see fit). The Advisor shall be responsible for all trading activity (including trading of technology and resources). The Advisor shall also control Great Merchants.

Section 5. Office of Research and Development
Research and Development Advisor shall control all worker units of the nation, and shall also direct technological research. The Advisor shall also control all Great Scientists and Great Engineers.

Section 6. The Office of the Censor
The Censor of the Assembly shall be tasked with validating polls, managing elections, and determining the census. Within two days of initially taking office, the Censor shall post Procedures for polling, which must define procedures for Initiative, Referendum, and Recall. Polls shall always be validated based on the Procedures in place when the poll was initially posted. The Censor shall also be responsible for polling the names of cities, units, geographic regions, as well as polling for the nation’s name and national symbols.

Section 7. Designated Players
The Designated Players shall be responsible for physically playing the saved game. Designated Players must first follow the posted current instructions and goals of a leader. Should no posted instruction exist, the Designated Player during his session may take guidance from polls. Should no such relevant polling data exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from discussion within the Democracy Game forum. Should no such relevant discussion exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from other citizens in the Democracy Game chatroom, should the session be online.

Section 8. The Governors
The Governors of the States shall be charged with the management and specialization of a single city or state. In cities assigned to that Governor, a Governor may specify certain A.I. specialization, or may individually place population to work certain tiles and hire specialists. The Governor may also set the build queues for all assigned cities.

Element C. The Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch shall consist of The Senate.

Section 1. The Senate
The Senate is formed by all Citizens of the nation. The total number of Citizens in the Assembly shall be determined by the Census. The Assembly shall be charged with the formation and passing of laws.

Section 2. Governor's Council & States
The Governor's council shall be created when atleast three governors are present and is made up of all the governors. The Governors council is incharge of the creation of states. A state is a collection of cities managed by one governor. Each state must have a minimum of 3 cities and a state can not be created untill there is atleast 5 cities present in the civilization. The creation of a state requires a simple majority of both the Senate and Governors Council.

Element D. The Census and amending the Code of Laws
The average of the number of votes cast in each of the most recent contested elections shall constitute an active census of citizens. The highest vote total of these elections shall constitute a full census (the House). A simple majority of the house must be achieved for an amendment to pass. An amendment must pass a Judicial Review and be open for discussion for 72 hours before a poll may be posted. The poll must remain open for 48 hours.

Element E. The Election process
Elections shall decide who among the citizenry are trusted to manage the game. The President, the Advisors, Judiciary, Governors, and Designated Players are all elected. Each of these poistions, excepting the Judiciary, shall have a deputy chosen by the winning citizen. The Election process shall be made up of Nominations, Debates, and the Elections themselves. No citizen may hold the same office for 2 consecutive terms.

Section 1. Nominations and Debates
Nominations shall be posted atleast 8 days before the end of the term, debates will last through the duration of the nominations. Nominations will be closed when the election polls start.

Section 2. Election Polls
Election Polls shall be posted atleast 4 days before the end of the term, and will be set to run for 3 days (72 hours). The candidate with the highest number of votes at the end of the 3 days is considered the winner. If two candidates tie, then a run-off poll, lasting 2 days (48 hours) is posted with just those two canidates which will continue as needed. The election for designated players shall be multiple choice, and list all of the possible candidates. Any candidate that recieves over 50% of the vote is a designated player for that term.

Section 3. Judicial Terms
The Judiciary shall remain in power one week after the election of a new Judiciary. At this time, the newly elected Judiciary shall take over.

Element F. Vacant Poistions
An advisor or Justice may declare themselves to be Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 2 weeks. During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act with all power and duties of that office, surrendering them to the official or Justice when they return or at the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first. If this period exceeds one week, then the deputy or pro-term may keep the power and duties of the office, unless they decide to give it up. Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for one week days in a thread related to their area without prior notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

Section 1. Filling Vacant Offices:
The President will appoint a citizen to any vacant office. The appointment is subject to a conformation poll, set to run for 3 days. If the Presidential seat is vacant then the Advisor of Foreign Affairs appoints a President.

Section 2. Judicial Absence's
If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the remaining Justices may declare the Justice Vacant. If all three Justices fail to post on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the President may declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately appoint a new Chief Justice. The remaining members of the Judiciary appoint a replacement for a vacant Justice.

Element G. Recall
Any citizen may request a recall for an elected official by posting a thread in the Citizens forum, citing the reasons for the recall. If two or more citizens support the recall, the Chief Justice must post a recall poll. The poll must run for 3 days, be private, and be set up in a Yes/No/Abstain. If 2/3 of the census votes to recall an official, then the official is removed from office, and the office becomes vacant. In the case of a Judicial recall, the President will handle the recall poll.

Element H. Referendum
A referendum is the submission of a proposed public measure or a decree to a direct popular vote, it is the second highest form of decision making. A referendum must comply with all polling procedures. Referendums are a direct result of an elected official carrying out their duties.

Element I. Initiative
An initiative is executive legislation created, proposed, and approved by the citizens. It is the highest form of decision making, and over-rides any other decisions, excempting a decision tasked to do so.

Section 1. Proposing an Initiative
Any citizen of the democracy game can propose an initiative. An initiative must receive atleast 3 days of discussions and two days of polling. Initiatives only hold power during the term they are approved, unless otherwise stated.

Element J. Sunset Clause
A sunset clause is an emergency legislative act. It must be discussed for 48 hours, and receive 24 hours of polling. A simple majority of the house is required to pass the clause. A sunset clause will automatically be removed at the end of the term it was passed in, or during a other pre-determined time. At this time changes made by the sunset clause will revert back to it's original state.

Element K. Turnchats
All irreversible game actions must progress during a scheduled game session called a turnchat. Reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline before the scheduled game session.

Section 1. Turnchat Instruction Thread
A Designated Player shall post a turnchat instruction thread 3 days before the scheduled turnchat. All executive advisors shall post instructions, based on citizen approval, in the instruction thread. These instructions are then used by the Designated Player to play the save. Advisors must post their instructions appro. 2 hours before the turnchat. The turnchat instruction thread is the only legal method of giving instructions to the designated player.

Element L. Liberare of Information
The Liberare or Library is a collection of game, save, and constitutional information. The Library is headed by a Director who is appointed by the President. The Director can then dictate additional tasks to Bureau Chiefs, who then take charge of a Bureau. The Library shall keep a record of all Bureau's and their purpose. The Director is charged with supplying save information at the citizens discretion.

 

[Cyc]

I hope I'm not too late voicing an opinion or two, but I'd say that initiatives were official polls, and that donsig doesn't need to recuse himself from JR12.

 

[Black_Hole]

edit: read next post

 

[Black_Hole]

I am temporarily removing my vote on Strider's amendment.

Strider it has come up that your above post doesn't state that it replaces the entire CoL, however it does say this in your proposed poll. Please simply post the entire proposed poll here.

 

[Strider]

I am temporarily removing my vote on Strider's amendment.

Strider it has come up that your above post doesn't state that it replaces the entire CoL, however it does say this in your proposed poll. Please simply post the entire proposed poll here.

and in doing so you break your own procedures.

To quote the Judicial procedures:

Reviews of a proposed law may be requested by anyone. The post must include the proposed law, and a link to the discussion thread. The proposed law must have been conspicuously posted as a proposed poll for at least 24 hours, and the discussion thread open for at least 48 hours. The Justices will review the law for any conflicts with current law, and post their findings. Any Justice may post the poll for all proposals that pass Judicial Review.

It says nothing about having to show which law it replaces. It actually only says that the post must include the proposed law and a link to the discussion thread, both of which are done.

If you want the proposed poll, there's a link in the Judicial Review request. I followed the procedures to the letter.

 

[Black_Hole]

and in doing so you break your own procedures.

To quote the Judicial procedures:



It says nothing about having to show which law it replaces. It actually only says that the post must include the proposed law and a link to the discussion thread, both of which are done.

If you want the proposed poll, there's a link in the Judicial Review request. I followed the procedures to the letter.

Okay, so you don't include what laws it replace, then it will have lots of conflicts with the current Code of Laws, since its not stated it replaces it.

 

[Strider]

Okay, so you don't include what laws it replace, then it will have lots of conflicts with the current Code of Laws, since its not stated it replaces it.

Doesn't work that way. I followed the procedures.. I gave a link to the discussion thread, a link to the proposed poll, and I included the proposed law. That is all that is required of me.

The rest is your job and I recommend doing it. I am not in a good mood and I'm not about to spend a week doing this because the Judicial procedures are severely lacking.

Change the procedures if you want, but untill then I've done exactly what the procedures want of me. Also, not following your own rules doesn't look to good. Espicially for somebody in the Judiciary.

 

[Nobody]

Strider just edit into the proposal that you intend to replace the entire current COL, Post a nice big warning in the discussion thread that it will replace the current one. And in the offical poll make it clear.

I think that most of the citizens under stand that this is what the the ammendment means just make it really clear. Really As i stated in my election thread i prefer to give these proposals the benefit of the doubt so the People get a chance to vote.

 

[Black_Hole]

Doesn't work that way. I followed the procedures.. I gave a link to the discussion thread, a link to the proposed poll, and I included the proposed law. That is all that is required of me.

The rest is your job and I recommend doing it. I am not in a good mood and I'm not about to spend a week doing this because the Judicial procedures are severely lacking.

Change the procedures if you want, but untill then I've done exactly what the procedures want of me. Also, not following your own rules doesn't look to good. Espicially for somebody in the Judiciary.

The Justices will review the law for any conflicts with current law, and post their findings.

I should be searching for conflicts with the current law, your post doesn't say that it replaces the current set of laws which should clearly be noted because this isn't a normal amendment. It won't take a week to do this.
All three justices are in agreement over this, so you aren't going to get far like this.

 

[Strider]

If all three judges are unable to follow the rules they set down, then they will not be receiving my vote next election. If you are unable to do the job you were elected for then you don't deserve to have that job.

It is not my problem that the judicial procedures are lacking. It's yours, so do the job you were elected to do.

 

[Black_Hole]

I would like to file my own Judicial Review

There is a conflict between the Code of Laws and the Constitution:

Section 6 Term Limits

A) Term Limits
I. Holder of Triumvirate and Cabinet offices are affected by term limits.

II. No one may be elected to the same Triumvirate or Cabinet office for more that two terms consecutively.

III. After serving two terms in the same Triumvirate or Cabinet office a Citizen must wait at least one term before running for the same office but may run for and hold any other office.

The Right to be Eligible to hold Public Office

The constitution says citizens have the right to be able to run for office, yet the Code of Laws restricts people. Are term limits in fact legal?

 

[Black_Hole]

I have another Judicial Review with a similar problem. The CoL and Constitution are conflicting once again.

D) Impeachment of Judges
I. Judges may not be Impeached..

By Recall of an official and selection of a replacement via election or appointment

The constitution states that citizens have the right to recall officials, yet the Code of Laws bans recalling judges. Can judges be recalled?