Terra Incognita should be black!

[Ryika]

...and also look really, really ugly. Thankfully we've moved past the times of using space that looks like empty void in historical 4x games.

I agree that having a bigger color difference (aka making the "black" mask a bit darker) may be a good idea, but black space? No thanks.

 

[pholtz]

Ugh, black looks horrible. I like it how it is.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

I'd prefer the map-like look for Terra Incognita, and the dimmed 'normal' view for FOW. Goes to show there's as many views to this as there are people... Their best bet is to have an in-game switch where you can choose between different styles, imo.

 

[mogilan]

I'd prefer the map-like look for Terra Incognita, and the dimmed 'normal' view for FOW. Goes to show there's as many views to this as there are people... Their best bet is to have an in-game switch where you can choose between different styles, imo.

I agree. If there is an option to switch off the map texture for TI and make it black (or any solid, easily distinguishable color) I'm 100% satisfied

 

[demidyad]

Their best bet is to have an in-game switch where you can choose between different styles, imo.

Their best bet is for the art directors that they pay to make artistic decisions, to make artistic decisions

 

[mogilan]

Their best bet is for the art directors that they pay to make artistic decisions, to make artistic decisions

That's not always true Art director will try to prove he's an artist and will focus on an artistic side of the feature. Just to prove he deserves the money he gets. So he would never admit to devs: "You know, I really believe its better to stay with the solid color instead of texture. It's better for a gameplay as it's easy to distinguish FOW from TI. I don't want to get another 1k$ for the map graphics as I'm idea man and I want the game to be perfect."

But he would certainly suggest: "I believe you don't need simple static Leader heads. Modern games require cartoonish, highly animated Leaders. If you want I'll devote half a year for 15k/month to make perfect animations. Trust me, I'm an artist"

 

[Ryika]

That's not always true Art director will try to prove he's an artist and will focus on an artistic side of the feature. Just to prove he deserves the money he gets. So he would never admit to devs: "You know, I really believe its better to stay with the solid color instead of texture. It's better for a gameplay as it's easy to distinguish FOW from TI. I don't want to get another 1k$ for the map graphics as I'm idea man and I want the game to be perfect."

But he would certainly suggest: "I believe you don't need simple static Leader heads. Modern games require cartoonish, highly animated Leaders. If you want I'll devote half a year for 15k/month to make perfect animations. Trust me, I'm an artist"

The art director is the person who tells artists what to do and makes decisions about what artwork is used and what isn't, to balance artistic style and functionality. He's NOT the one actually creating the artwork, so none of what you wrote here makes any sense.

 

[mogilan]

The art director is the person who tells artists what to do and makes decisions about what artwork is used and what isn't, to balance artistic style and functionality. He's NOT the one actually creating the artwork, so none of what you wrote here makes any sense.

"The art director is the person who tells artists what to do and makes decisions about what artwork is used and what isn't"

"He's NOT the one actually creating the artwork"

For me these two sentences contradict each other. As art director makes final decision about graphics he's in fact creating it.

 

[rastak]

As ugly as this?:

Spoiler :

Almost.

 

[Ryika]

"The art director is the person who tells artists what to do and makes decisions about what artwork is used and what isn't"

"He's NOT the one actually creating the artwork"

For me these two sentences contradict each other. As art director makes final decision about graphics he's in fact creating it.

So if I tell you to draw me an image of a goat and then decide: "Yeah, I'll be using that for my desktop." then I'm the artist who created the artwork in your opinion? What nonsense is this?

He is an "artist" in the vague sense that he's the one who composes the final project, but that's not the type of artists that you were talking about when you claimed the art director would say something like: "If you want I'll devote half a year for 15k/month to make perfect animations."

 

[mogilan]

So if I tell you to draw me an image of a goat and then decide: "Yeah, I'll be using that for my desktop." then I'm the artist who created the artwork in your opinion? What nonsense is this?

He is an "artist" in the vague sense that he's the one who composes the final project, but that's not the type of artists that you were talking about when you claimed the art director would say something like: "If you want I'll devote half a year for 15k/month to make perfect animations."

Man, you are becoming aggressive. If you don't like the idea of black TI, that's ok. Lucky for you it is not implemented in CIV6.

Art director manages a budget so his role is to negotiate with the management. And his responsible for proving that his team has a work to do. He'll use every opportunity to get his team a work, even if it's not necessary.

And he decides that a goat must be drawn. So in fact he's responsible for a goat, no the poor artist who just listens to his orders. Same as Steve Jobs is responsible for iPhone. Not the engineers who just designed the screen according to his view.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

Their best bet is for the art directors that they pay to make artistic decisions, to make artistic decisions

So you want someone else to make a decision for you that's entirely up to taste? I'd rather decide for myself, even if the artsy types could dictate the default look. More aesthetic options are never a bad thing, imo.

 

[Uberfrog]

I really like the graphics, fog of war, and terra incognita (Here Be Dragons!). As others have illustrated, a return to pitch black Civ IV style terra incognita would be jarring. Why would undiscovered areas of the Earth look like space? And to boot, space without stars? Even Civ V's clouds were better than that.

The empty cartography is very visually pleasing and more like the edges of historical maps. It feels very cool.

 

[MrRadar]

Please, give brown a chance

Black was in for four terms now, it was quite ok, but now it would be a bit boring to have it again. White served one term, it was an interesting change, a bit surprising and strange at first, but I got used to it with time. And now, this 'old map style' brown paper look is absolutely gorgeous!

 

[George Abitbol]

I agree with Ryika, the black TI is awful. I don't see the problem, square parchemin with monsters and compass = terra incognita, drawed map with terrain features = fog of war. I guess they took some inspirations from the Anno serie.
IMHO it's just a question of time. After few dozens of minutes of playing you will not notice it anymore.

Spoiler :

This screenshot is great! I like the city of Aachen, with the farms in the hinterland, and all the districts on the coast.

 

[Ryika]

Man, you are becoming aggressive. If you don't like the idea of black TI, that's ok. Lucky for you it is not implemented in CIV6.

I'm not being aggressive, I'm being as calm as I can be. I've merely pointed out that you were giving an incorrect example and are now deflecting to hide that fact. If you don't like being called out for that, well, maybe just be like: "Yeah, that was a dumb example"?

Art director manages a budget so his role is to negotiate with the management. And his responsible for proving that his team has a work to do. He'll use every opportunity to get his team a work, even if it's not necessary.

A bad art director may do that, yeah. A good art director knows that that's exactly the opposite of what his job is. That's why I actually agree that artistic decisions should not solely be made by the art director, and that's generally not how it works anyway, because the art director has to explain himself to the people above him.

I do however become a bit skeptical when people start claiming to know what "the company's best bet" is.

Not that it's even really applicable in this case, we're talking about a 2d-texture with a few images on them, that's work for a few days once the initial concept is set in stone.

And he decides that a goat must be drawn. So in fact he's responsible for a goat, no the poor artist who just listens to his orders. Same as Steve Jobs is responsible for iPhone. Not the engineers who just designed the screen according to his view.

I think you're giving too much credit to Steve Jobs here, but in general, yeah, that's the work of an art director, not the work of an artist.

 

[MistyRonin]

I like how it looks now. But I think that should be easy to mod, for those who need it.

 

[mogilan]

Ok, my last try, I promise, to show you my point of view

Look at this screen, taken from quill18's gameplay video. I really struggle to distinguish TI from FOW as the color palette and texture is very similar in may cases. And because the colors vanish when the unit moves and FOW appears it's even more confusing for me.

Spoiler :

I watched several gameplays so far and I'm still not used to it. I don't know..

Few words about black TI. In previous CIVs with black TI it was a pleasure to go from completely black, boring map to colorful map. It felt like an accomplishment. You had a feeling you started in Dark Ages and when moved to modern ages, everything was explored and look differently.

 

[Browd]

The tiles you point to are, to me, easily distinguishable. I think familiarity will ease your concerns, but it may take a few playthroughs.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Look at this screen, taken from quill18's gameplay video. I really struggle to distinguish TI from FOW as the color palette and texture is very similar in may cases. And because the colors vanish when the unit moves and FOW appears it's even more confusing for me.

I raised the same point in about June. However, after watching some videos I became quite familiar with this. I don't think it's a good choice and I think Terra Incognita should have a bit different color, but I can live with this.