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Test IV Time - The Alternative World

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Stargate, Oct 1, 2006.

  1. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    To Bober:
    your welcome...because i also experience the same unzip software problem before :)
    thanks Axeman from Bjornlo (Norse Axeman) and came the right time when i needed most...:D
    before that i used Berserker which cannot use it as same double unit in Test IV Time 2 as Viking special unit ;)

    To Civinator:
    thanks for extra information...now i know, before that i also wondering why alphabet is researched after writing which in CIV3 are opposite :crazyeye:
     
  2. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    whoa i never noticed that the diiference between civ3 civ 4 i huge (seeing as i have no civ3) i looks like agood mod and lot of effort has gone into it but whould it be just as easy to civ4?
     
  3. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    T4T version 1.1 updated

    To kristopherb:
    ya...it is a very big differents which some powerful system in CIV4 cannot implement in CIV3 :)
     
  4. Shaun Churchman

    Shaun Churchman Chieftain

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    "Mercantilism------None-----Banking--------No maintenance cost from buildings."

    That strikes me as Extreamly overpowered.
     
  5. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    You have upkeep for biulding s in civ3
    :eek: :eek:
     
  6. NeverMind

    NeverMind Proud to be Russian

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    A very interesting idea, Stargate! :goodjob: I played the mod a bit and made this "total" techtree screen.



    Now you should make Warlords Expansion for this! :D. Or maybe civ2 and civ1 conversions? It would be funny to play too.
     
  7. sercer88

    sercer88 Emperor

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    I don't have CIV Warlords, so a Civ III mod of CIV Warlords would be crazy, for me at least :lol:
     
  8. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    To Shaun Churchman:
    Mercantilism is not extreamly overpowered because it just to differents it from others economy civics, a very useful civics for player who had many buildings in the game.

    To NeverMind:
    thanks, it's great to know you like the idea...warloads is under development. Any susgestions you can give help for warlords? i had thinking doing civ1 and civ2 mod before...just not enough "force" for modding :mischief:

    To sercer88:
    CIV Warlords would be crazy...for me is just a new expansion for the mod, what about Beyond the Sword? mind disorder :lol:
     
  9. kristopherb

    kristopherb Protective/Charismatic

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    what does civ3 merchantalism do ?
    civ4 gives one specailist pe city and no foriegen routes
    BTS isn't even out yets relax
     
  10. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    what a cool mod :)

    though i dont understand what des the religion system is for?

    what do you do with it besides build "missionerries?

    what are theiir perpose?
     
  11. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    To kristopherb:
    yup, BTS isn't even out yets but sure i got another expansion for my T4T :D

    To keldath:
    thanks T4T :cool: , Religion system come with Missionary is for building:
    1. Temple for content 1 unhappy citizen.
    2. Monastery for increase 50% science.

    Also for recreate the effect of CIV IV Religion feel :lol:
     
  12. johnnyjal

    johnnyjal Prince

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    Marvelous idea!!!!!!!!!!!!

    As the Incan Buddhist despot, (which no one seems to appreciate)
    I am not sure what to think about this idea.

    It's like I am playing the game on a higher level
    that I am not comfortable with.

    I got no luxuries from hunting or mining (only after monarchy)
    So I do not have enough revenue to keep any city's pop above 3 or 4.
    I have lots of rocks and marbles and copper and iron
    but the only thing I can do to not lose too much $$
    is to build settlers with soldiers.

    Maybe I am used to playing different mods/scns
    but 1200ad seems late for the known world to reach the "2nd era"
    If this is the way of civ4 I may stay
    with trying all the mod/scn of civ3 I have not yet tried.

    THIS IS NO COMPLAINT!!!
    I LIKE TRYING TO PLAY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    To johnnyjal:
    Incan Buddhist Despotism can happen on this mod. Try simplified version, it's a bit easy.
    Hunting give furs and Mining give gems, if both don't have on your map, just wait for Monarchy and Calendar in 2nd era for luxuries.
    Try to build buildings and wonder beside settlers with soldiers.
    1200ad at 2nd era can fix by go for technology trading with AI to reach 2nd era faster.
     
  14. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    The 18 Civilizations:

    Civilization..Unique Unit..Starting Techs..Leader..Trait 1 Trait 2..Favorite Government..Civic

    America..Navy SEAL..Fishing Agriculture..Lincoln..seafaring industrious..Democracy..Universal Suffrage

    Arabs..Camel Archer..Mysticism The Wheel..Abu Bakr..scientific religious..Monarchy..Police State

    Aztecs..Jaguar..Mysticism Hunting..Montezuma..militaristic religious..Tribal Council..Police State

    China..Cho-Ku-Nu..Agriculture Mining..Mao..industrious commercial..Communism..State Property

    Egypt..War Chariot..The Wheel Agriculture..Cleopatra..religious agricultural..Theocracy..Hereditary Rule

    England..Redcoat..Fishing Mining..Elizabeth..scientific commercial..Consitution Monarchy.Hereditary Rule

    France..Musketeer..Agriculture The Wheel..Joan d'Arc..agricultural industrious..Republic.Hereditary Rule

    Germany..Panzer..Hunting Mining..Bismarck..scientific agricultural..Fascism..Police State

    Greece..Phalanx..Fishing Hunting..Alexander..scientific militaristic..Democracy..Hereditary Rule

    Inca..Quechua..Mysticism Agriculture..Pachacuti..militaristic commercial..Tribal Council.Hereditary Rule

    India..Fast Worker..Mysticism Mining..Gandhi..industrious religious..Democracy..Universal Suffrage

    Japan..Samurai..Fishing The Wheel..Tokugawa..seafaring militaristic..Consitution Monarchy..Mercantilism

    Mali..Skirmisher..The Wheel Mining..Kankan Mansa..commercial religious..Tribal Council..Free Markets

    Mongolia..Keshik..The Wheel Hunting..Genghis Khan..expansionist militaristic..Feudalism..Police State

    Persia..Immortal..Agriculture Hunting..Xerxes..expansionist agricultural..Theocracy..Bureaucracy

    Rome..Praetorian..Fishing Mining.. Caesar..expansionist seafaring..Republic..Bureaucracy

    Russia..Cossack..Hunting Mining..Catherine..agricultural commercial..Communism..Hereditary Rule

    Spain..Conquistador..Mysticism Fishing..Isabella..expansionist religious..Monarchy..Police State
     
  15. joelwest

    joelwest Noble

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    being new to modding in Civ 3 I also found the instructions on how to get this mod up and running quite confusing

    I incorrectly assumed the two huge files "A "and "B" were each an entirely separate mod, one "simple" and the other "complete"

    the first post in this thread needs to clarify the difference in gameplay of the two versions of this mod is entirely a function of which of the editor .biq files is chosen to start a new game from using the "content" button if installed in the \scenarios folder (or the "conquests" button if installed in the \conquests folder)

    the two large files "A" and "B" need to be combined and the version patch installed into the same folder for the T4T mod of post one to work. the biq needs to be updated to search for the ver 1.1 folder if the patched original folder is renamed so as to end in 1.1

    ===============================================

    being more familiar now with Civ 4 than Civ 3, I recently was trying to introduce the Civ series to an outsider using the more "non-maxed out computer friendly" Civ 3. however I was having trouble doing this since Civ 3 does not (big surprise) behave exactly like its newer cousin. in particular I found out by playing Civ 3 again that combat odds were not built in, and that their was no fast way to determine the content of a tile and hence map a good place for a city location

    I started a thread in the Civ 3 general forum and found out there are several combat calculators, including one to be used in-game. however no one could point me to a mod that made the terrain more friendly to read. rather I was pointed towards this mod (Test IV Time) as an attempt to clone Civ 4

    what follows is a discussion of the problems with trying adapt Civ 3 (C3C) to play like Civ 4 -

    Spoiler :

    to Stargate, the originator of this mod -

    I spent several hours last night in the Civ 3 editor seeing how the biq file was set up for this mod

    1)
    for some reason you did not go to the Civ 4 system of making attack = defense by default in all units. rather lopsided attack and defense values were maintained from Civ 3

    2)
    I normally play Civ 4 at quick speed, and hence am familiar with the tech tree costs for both the quick and normal speed versions of Civ 4. the cost in the biq file was neither of these values. for the lower cost techs the cost was roughly twice that the cost for a quick game of Civ 4. was that intentional?

    3)
    some of the features of Civ 4 cannot be duplicated solely using the Civ 3 rules editor. unfortunately unlike Civ 4 Firaxis never released a SDK for Civ 3, so changes to the internal code are not possible. changes to the vanilla Civ 3 game can only be created using the Civ 3 editor (unless one tries a reverse engineer of it). the most irritating lack in the Civ 3 editor is no equivalent means by which to build a "Civ 4 like" cottage, and hence generate wealth. looking at what is available to change using worker actions in the editor I concluded a "Civ 4 like" cottage in this mod would have to be a modified forest terrain tile that produces more commerce and less shields. the drawback to this method is that modified forest "cottages" are pre-built at the start of the game with the relative number of such high commerce tiles depending upon how wet the starting climate is. "plant forests" using such a revised forest tile yield rate can now be understood to be building a "Civ 4 like" cottage (to supplement the naturally occurring forest tiles available at the start of the game). in this understanding a "forest" tile should no longer have a defense bonus, so my modified biq eliminates it. my biq visually substitutes mansions (large houses to represent cottages) for the "forested hills" type of terrain, but this is not very satisfactory since Civ 3 counts such tiles as HILLS, not forests, in terms of resources. Future versions of the my add on scenario will have mansions (or some other cottage looking substitute) for the forests which occur on grasslands and plains terrain tiles

    it was pointed out in the next post that building roads or railroads is a worker improvement that also adds more city commerce as well, but such improvements to my thinking are a means of creating a trade network or quickly moving units around, NOT a means of creating significant city wealth

    another problem building roads or railroads as a means of replacing Civ 4 cottages is that building a road/rr does not rule out another worker improvement on the same tile, whereas building a cottage in Civ 4 rules out a building a mine, farm, workshop, etc. on the same tile

    on Oct 13, 2007 I published my complete add on T4T scenario built upon Stargate's base T4T mod. this included new units, new civics, and a much revised biq. this is located as a download (94 MB) in the Civ 3 modpacks download section -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7342

    in comparison to Civ 4 I found Rhye's unmodified terrain used by Stargate for this mod to be quite dark and hence made improvements, etc. hard to see. hence I compiled several lighter terrain pcx's together into a overall terrain update file and this is available as a separate download at

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7341

    my goal with this terrain replacement was to make Civ 3 less eye jarring and the colors more pastel and balanced. Sn00py's greener terrain was a good start, but other modders had some good terrain ideas as well

    UPDATE Sept 18, 2009
    I finally updated the two problem child graphics which previously had stumped me. the new Art\Terrain\tnt.pcx modifies Cordy's outcroppings version to only use the second row which is for grassland outcroppings. the other rows are for grassland, plains, and desert, but do not convey any additional info so I deleted them

    I updated Art\resources.pcx to have black abbrev letters on a white background to make the resources in Civ 3 much easier to find. the inability to quickly find resources was the most jarring thing about coming back to Civ 3 after having played Civ 4

    the T4T mod as I updated it made forests tiles into cottages since Civ 3 does not have a worker action to create a cottage. the graphics I included were updated for forest hills, but as it turns out forests in Civ 3 are NOT overlays (like in Civ 4), and hence hills are considered hills even if there are forests on them. the three correct images to update are for forests on grassland, plains, and tundra

    the zip file below has these six new graphics and the biq file associated with the moved icons

    joelwest
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    For #3, Roads=More commerce in Civ3 :)
     
  17. joelwest

    joelwest Noble

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    I just verified that Civilization..Unique Unit..Starting Techs..is the same for your list and for Civ 4. in many cases the leader name is the same or can easily be modded to become the Civ 4 name, eg "Caesar" can be renamed "Julius Caesar"

    however I am at a lost regarding your methodology for assigning the two civ traits. the basic problem (as you know) is that Civ 3 and Civ 4 have a different set of civ traits. in that the Civ 3 Editor (the only means of creating a mod in Civ 3) is fixed and does not allow for the creation of new traits, the question is only how best to assign Civ 3 traits for Civ 4 leaders

    In post #50 of this thread I explain my methodology in assigning the traits to each of the now 31 max civilizations in my add on scenario to Stargate's base mod -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5969059&postcount=50

    as explained there I had to leave out three of the 34 civ's in Civ4 and its two expansion packs (since the limit in C3C is 31 civ's), and I chose to leave out Koreans (although the Khmer currently use the Korean leaderhead), the Franks (incorrectly called the "Holy Roman Empire" of Charlemagne in Civ 4 BtS), and the Sumerians. however UU's for all three of these left out civ's remain in the new unit folders I created for the scenario

    my add on scenario is available as a download (94 MB) in the Civ 3 modpacks download section -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7342

    there is also replacement brighter terrain available at -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7341

    ===============================================

    Civ 3 has a camel resource and so camels are already part of the default biq file. my current plan is to make camels plentiful and so REQUIRE the Arab civ to have the camel resource before constructing a Camel Archer, their unique unit

    UPDATE Sept, 19, 2009:
    the Oct 14, 2007 version of my add on scenario (see link above) uses the "blips" resources.pcx instead of the one with the Civ 4 resources created by Stargate and so is forced use a horse to represent a camel

    the file attached to post #35 has an updated resources.pcx and its associated biq file

    joelwest
     
  18. Tasslehoff

    Tasslehoff Kender

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    I just tried out the mod, and it's weird... I find myself with still one city, a worker, and two warriors in 1600 BC, with thirty (!) turns left until I finish building a settler. I've only researched one tech throughout the whole game, and two civilizations are vastly ahead of me in technology. Is this normal?
     
  19. joelwest

    joelwest Noble

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    I am continuing to update the biq to reflect Civ 4 gameplay.

    When I enabled an advance for zero research after completing a tech it turns out during gameplay this advance still takes one more turn and must be selected for research. Furthermore the new advances like this are not on the illustrated tech tree to be selected.

    Why do this? To pick a gov (a combo of the four types of Civ 4 civics that were used) that requires more than one prerequisite tech needs this workaround since the Civ 3 editor on the gov tab a gov only allows a selection of one prerequisite tech.

    A similar problem occurs when a religion Great Wonder is founded. Just being the first to discover the religions's enabling tech is not enough. One of your cities must also spend one turn building this free Great Wonder. (As it is currently setup free temples of that religion then spread to all your current and future civ's cities, and later a monastery, super temple, and religious tax shrine can all be built in the religion's founding city. Missionaries do not exist as functioning units in this mod.)

    The biq file as Sept 22, 2007 is zipped and attached below.

    View attachment 17 Test 4 Time Complete JDW (Random Map) 1.2.zip

    This biq uses the units available in the mod.

    =============================

    For a more revised biq with new units my add on scenario is also available as a set of ten downloads (89 MB total) at -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...p?do=cat&id=14

    There is also replacement brighter terrain (9 MB) available at -

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...o=file&id=7341
     
  20. Stargate

    Stargate Space Time Keeper

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    thanks joelwest for putting many effort on this mod to a fresh new look :)

    i had download your new improved biq and find out the small problem...

    it's not the pediaicons.txt. mistake...is the biq you had miss spell the TECH_STATE_PROPERTY ..to.. GOVT_STATE_PROPERTY in editor of the government part.

    many interesting idea you had put on the mod when i play the mod :goodjob:

    1. units attack and defend points that i don't know yet how to convert it from CIV4
    2. the tech cost are copy same poits from civ4 but the editor just roughly implemented calculations.
    3. cottage = commerce...road = no commerce...a very good idea!
    4. Sn00py's greener terrain ...ya just to smooth a little bit game play and by the way Joel's Terrain get fresh look too.
    5. "Caesar" can be rename "Julius Caesar" ... i miss that one...need improved
    6. two civ traits is base on something civ3 and civ4 combine...example religious = religious , creative = scientific, and follow some nature civ3 traits like japan is seafaring because near sea country and try not to double any two civ traits.
    7. Arab civ have the camel resource before constructing a Camel Archer are not Civ4 original...i had thinking putting it before...The camel resource is for the Islam country player to replace pig for camel to play with out any sensitive issue. intentional ;)

    keep up the good work, friends.
     

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