Discussion in 'Civ3 - User-created Maps' started by TETurkhan, Aug 9, 2002.
isn't that the name of the civ? I am a bad speler.
Page 100!! [dance]
It's page 50 on mine...
In case anyone is wondering, yes I am alive and come next week, my schedule will be freed up so that I can make one final push to complete the scenarios. The time of waiting will soon come to an end - I want them completed as much as you people do. So the End is Near .
Thank you TET
Tet, with regards to the rivers being navigable; I think in a MP game this is fine, but for versions with just the AI this is BAD. The AI is not good about maneuvering across bodies of water no matter what difficulty level you play on. I know when I played England I was totally secure from the AI, and as Korea when I took Japan I was set for life. No way is the AI going to do any real damage to me.
This will also interfere with communications for the AI. I'm not sure where you put all these navigable rivers, but just looking at that North America map you posted about 10 pages ago on this thread I can see the Aztecs and the Iriquois are going to have their first meeting slowed,and the AI Iroquois will never get over the river in force when their horsies arrive. I also agree with whoever posted that the river should not be navigable that much past St. Louis. If you must use these then at least provide a few crossing points. I also think it would look better to have the full size river with smaller rivers branching off.
One more thought: If you make the sea off Constantinople fully coast then the Greeks AI is going to have their navy torn to shreds when the Pirates run up into the Black Sea. Don't know if that is really a good idea. In most every strategic game I play the AI just is no good at moving across water bodies in strength. Do you really want to weaken the AI by doing this?
I knew you would not let us down, thank you TET.
Sasebo, you bring up some good points.
The thing is, Test of Time 2.0 plays so much more differently than the previous version. I love pushing the game to a different level and introducing many new concepts. I see my ideas appear in different forums a year after I initially pitched them to certain people. Navigable Rivers, Animated Cities and Castle Walls and so much more
Ideas are what mods need, not just more units, more techs, more of everything Jesse Smith from Firaxis gave me that advice when I was working on getting scenarios completed for C3C. I never made the deadline he had given back then, but not because I was trying to include too much of the same, but because I wanted to implement new ideas in an effort to make the scenarios so radical and dynamic that it could show how far one could go...
You are absolutely right though Sasebo in that the AI has great difficulty in adapting and understanding these new radically different concepts. I cannot tell you how many times I have junked an idea cause the AI could not adjust to it. Navigable Rivers do work though because I allowed cities to be built along certain key points of the rivers, thus controlling these key points allows control of the river since both land & sea units can pass through your own cities. These cities thus become strategically vital for you to control - again it is not about more - in this case cities but about making each city different in some way... Some cities will serve as gateways to a larger region, some will serve as economic powerhouses fueling your empire, and others will only growing to a size of 2 and serving as trade ports for certain resources. Certainly I push the limit of what the AI can comprehend, but so far the AI is holding up okay of course as you mentioned, an MP game of Test of Time 2.0 would nulify all concerns on this front - well, that is if the human player is better than the AI
Anyway, I hope that alleviates your concern Sasebo, but please by all means ask more questions! It has been a long time since someone pitched a concern regarding game play.
I am sure many of you have played other scenarios aside from Test of Time. What I would like to know is what elements of Test of Time appeal to you the most? You can even expand on this by telling me what direction you wish the mod to take with the new version (kind of late for this but if I can I will try to implement some of them). How if at all is the play-experience of Test of Time different from other scenarios? Thanks.
On a side note - I am applying for a position (Scenario Designer) with Firaxis and I intend providing them with demos of the scenarios I am working on - little added motivation for me to finish them up in a hurry
What I like the most is the realism that goes through the hole mod...
From the pre-placed citys (only way to expand is to concuer, and you dont have to build cityes you-self, + its just much more fun to play with realistic city placement and city development)
nations speciel units (every nation more or less have their time of glory, with a chepeer, better unit than the others)
to the tech researching (i like the long build and search time in the start, it makes the game much more epic.
The thing I would like to see in the 2.0 is the thing with the starting ages (so that you can start in 6 different times) so you dont have to play the hole ancient and mideavel age to come to the industrialization...
But you've managed that, so overall I'm very satisfied Good job
have a map which is played from begining to end, maps for different time periods like one for ancient world, one for crusades, one for age of imperialism, one for WWI - WWII, and one for modern world today and on to the future. *using it to predict the future*
From what I have been able to discern in reading different forums, the biggest thing that attracts people to mods in the mold of "Rise and Rule" is the amount of technologies that are available for the player to explore. There are many different routes to travel to victory and the path through the military technology line isn't as rigid as it is in regular Civ 3.
On the other hand, (as many have already stated) I think the biggest thing that attracts people to your mod is the level of realism that is felt when someone plays it. Recreating history and seeing it play out at the same time is very cool! In addition, players also appreciate your willingness to push the boundaries on what is possible with the Civ 3 engine. (Not that other moders are trying to do this also, but there is no doubt that you usually have inavative stuff)
One beef that I personally have always had with Civ 3 is the AI's major advantage in expansion (especially early). Whenever I play your World Map w/ Cities that advantage is mostly negated and I have no excuses for not conquering my neighbors! It is so much fun to take a small nation and try and turn them into a world power in your mod.
A side note: Thank you Tet for your continuing work on this mod. I am hopeful that you would still be in the civ community when Civ 4 comes out. But, I understand that many other things in life are more important than computer games. Either way, good luck on this latest edition of ToT and thanks a million for your hard work!
actually your map is the only one I play. I like thats it real earth map, all the uus, and that you try to keep it as real as possible, with unit costs, techs, and everything else. did you need my help? I signed that thing, a month ago, did you get it?
ShiroKobbure - you are the one who is originally from Japan but currently living in the US and are playing a US version of Civ correct?
Zabba, thanks for your feedback. I think for the most part I have stayed true to the original Test of Time but have eliminated most of the problems with it namely the long wait between turns. Less micro-management, more excitement in that you see huge upsets - when a great powerful Civilization can all of a sudden be overrun by a smaller one (like Alexander did to the Persians )
yes thats right
Just a few things from me this time. Tet, did you see the two PMs I sent you with feedback on the 1.93 version? Just making sure you know I sent them is all.
The realism is a lot of fun, and I also agree not having the expansion phase is a BIG plus for me too. I'm still not 100% happy with the idea of the wonders starting in their historical cities, but then again I was just playing Korea and I was kind of out in the cold wonder-wise out there. I like the high resource squares and the higher values on a lot of the units, it makes it more exciting somehow... It also changes your strategies all-around based on just one little change like that. Holding onto that ONE sheep square that is feeding your city while the hordes rage around you is definitely a different game experience, believe me! Everything you put into this makes it just a different game altogether; when I go back to any other version of Civ I get culture shock,it requires a whole different style of playing in order to succeed.
I like so many little things, it is hard to point them out. Like how the Ivory is a strategic AND luxury resource; I don't think I've seen that done too often. (Note: I think in 1.93 that was bugged; I was able to build some units that required two Ivory when I only had the one resource.) I really like that every Civ is really different in it's strategy options and potential; you get immense replayability out of this scenario.
Can't wait for 2.0! Good luck with that job interview Tet, you certainly have what it takes IMO. Tet is THE KING!
ShiroKobbure - you are a member of the private 'TETurkhan' forums here on CFC right? I will be posting an update of things I need done there soon - maybe you could help with some of that.
I will need someone soon to make an install program for the scenarios. If anyone up to the task please email me at email@example.com
im dont know about private tet forum
This is just an idea and it would seem kinda weird, but here goes. Having the AI follow history is tricky, especially for somebody like the English. You could for instance try starting england off with a boat that carries 1 settler and moves one movement point, have it like off in the pacific and it can only travel through a very specific sea lane that travels to Australia or something. So England could be set up to settle Australia in an exact amount of turns.
I don't know how well something like this would work, but it would be interesting to have Civs start off with certain advanced units, very very far away that would arrive to a certain location at the proper moment in the game. This would be a ton of work lol, just a kinky idea (would make the world map look really weird )
Edit: Thinking about it more, your different starting time periods handle that pretty much, so this would be any use in the ancient start or something.
I just finished reading all of this thread. Great mod and map (otherwise I wouldn't have read the entire thread). I really enjoy and prefer playing on earth and trying to recreate history. After finding your map and mod, I have only played on one other mod (DyP, because that one was mentioned so much in this thread, um, certainly alot of tech in that one ), but only for a couple of minutes when I realized that I wouldn't be able to play on earth.
Thanks for the great mod and map (though, with my internet connection, I can only dl really small things that fit on one disc, so I'm playing whatever verison came on the Complete Civ3 game cd (that was "relatively recently" (May 2004) released)). Even that rather early verison (I assume early verison) is great fun. A lot better than Civ3 itself.
Hope you get/got that job. And did you ever move to Turkey? Great work.
Quick add on, did not want to double post: Was surprised when I ran into the dinos. I ignored them until T-Rex tried to eat my king (that was great fun to watch, though worrying ). My king won. By they way, the dinos were running around all over the place (in S.America, not locked to one spot). From reading this thread, I've become confused, are the Dinos supposed to be locked to one spot or are they allowed to run around?
Quick question Enjoyed your incomplete Zion Ambition story. Are any other stories in the stories thread based on this mod? Is there a thread dedicated to stories based on this mod? I've looked but could not find anything yet. Thanks. (Since I'll 'never' have the internet capacity to dl the most up to date verisions, it would be fun to read any stories based on the mod).
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