shramj
Fähnrich
Even better, I like synthetics, it covers alot of materials. Good idea! I read the Marla World map post but still cannot find the size of the Marla map, anyone find that info out yet?
TETurkhan Test of Time (Map & Mod)
- Thread starter TETurkhan
- Start date
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
pap1723: great idea! would throw Rubber out for copper, but if we can add more resources (have to check on that), Rubber + tech 'Synthetics' makes sense 
now why am I too thick to think of stuff like that?????
now why am I too thick to think of stuff like that?????
This map was created with one main goal, and that being accuracy. That first phase (the Map) done, now comes placement of resources, editing unit stats etc to make them work in sync perfectly with the map. As Lt. 'Killer' M. stated, the game itself is limiting and somethings will have to give way for playabilities sake. However the aim will still be focused on creating a game that gives the player a real historical feel.
So in saying that obviously certain things in the game need to be edited. I have put together a list of areas that will be addressed and I encourage anyone for their input. One other development, I have spoken to Kal-El over the course of this past week. He was really impressed with the map and was wanting to incorporate it with his mod DyP. I unfortunately havent had the opportunity try his mod yet, have any of you? And if so, how is the historical feel of the mod? Resources, units etc, do they all work well or do they still require some refinement? Let me know... one additional point, I would like to keep the game as close to its original form as possible. Only critical aspects of the game to be adjusted, my goal is not to recreate it but to add and modify it to 1-work smoothly with the map and 2-add historical feel...
List of areas that will be addressed with the Scenario/Mod:
Terrains will allow more types of resources to be placed on them. For example, Germany is covered by forests and has much coal deposits, but since forest terrain does not allow coal, you have the change the terrain to compensate which makes for an inaccurate map.
Units on large maps should not move at the same rate as units on small maps. There should be an automatic scale system that factors in world size, but there isnt. In light of this, I will edit the unit movement rates to compensate.
City locations. I will edit certain resources (give them more food points etc), to encourage large cities where they were typically found through out history. I will also reduce flood plain food output to fix disproportionately large cities being formed around deserts. I have a unique system that enables me to get the AI to place cities in the right place and with the right name. It is not 100%, but it works most times Obviously the first city will be in the right location but I am talking the 2nd and 3rd cities as well. Again this will add to the historical feel of the game.
Tech Rate. Aside from increasing the tech rate I plan on adding more costs to techs in the starting Eras. Many times I find the ladder ages lasting quite long but the early ones whizzing by prematurely
Resources. They are limited, and certain key ones as pointed out by a few of you are missing and yet we have others that dont make much sense. The most irritating has to be strategic resources. In my opinion a strategic resource that COMPLETELY disables a Civilization from advancing is stupid. Like Saltpeter, its strategic but yet I have to put one by every Civilization otherwise it will put them and a huge disadvantage where then is the strategy in that? Or like Horses, found originally in Steppes of Asia but in eventually found all over the world again same problem, what do you do? Placing them only in one part of the world gives any Civilizations around there clear advantage, but placing them all over the globe takes away from the strategy aspect I know, it is good to create some limits etc, but I think it has to be within reason . Also there are not enough resources in the game I am looking to expand this, but not just for the sake of adding more but because it will add historical flavor to the game
Unique Units & Golden Age. I sometimes do not find that the UU's impact the game enough, in most cases they are only slightly more powerful than conventional units of their time. I for example would like a UU that is considerably more powerful, this could be done by editing the ADM, or by reducing the cost. So lets say youre playing your game, all of a sudden you see Mongol Horsemen (UU), you panic, because you know this means the Mongols are going through their golden age and you will face hordes of these units. The fear factor has to be there I made a mod a while back and I reduced the Mongol Units cost and increased their Defense higher than any other horse unit. One time I was playing the game as the Chinese, I saw one Mongol UU appear, up until that point the Mongols were backwards and no threat, but with in short time hordes of these units were pouring over my borders the units were exceptionally powerful and I lost number of cities though they did culture flip back to be later on
The point is, tweaking such units really adds some historical flavor to the game
Thats about it for now, once again any insights are welcome
So in saying that obviously certain things in the game need to be edited. I have put together a list of areas that will be addressed and I encourage anyone for their input. One other development, I have spoken to Kal-El over the course of this past week. He was really impressed with the map and was wanting to incorporate it with his mod DyP. I unfortunately havent had the opportunity try his mod yet, have any of you? And if so, how is the historical feel of the mod? Resources, units etc, do they all work well or do they still require some refinement? Let me know... one additional point, I would like to keep the game as close to its original form as possible. Only critical aspects of the game to be adjusted, my goal is not to recreate it but to add and modify it to 1-work smoothly with the map and 2-add historical feel...
List of areas that will be addressed with the Scenario/Mod:
Terrains will allow more types of resources to be placed on them. For example, Germany is covered by forests and has much coal deposits, but since forest terrain does not allow coal, you have the change the terrain to compensate which makes for an inaccurate map.
Units on large maps should not move at the same rate as units on small maps. There should be an automatic scale system that factors in world size, but there isnt. In light of this, I will edit the unit movement rates to compensate.
City locations. I will edit certain resources (give them more food points etc), to encourage large cities where they were typically found through out history. I will also reduce flood plain food output to fix disproportionately large cities being formed around deserts. I have a unique system that enables me to get the AI to place cities in the right place and with the right name. It is not 100%, but it works most times Obviously the first city will be in the right location but I am talking the 2nd and 3rd cities as well. Again this will add to the historical feel of the game.
Tech Rate. Aside from increasing the tech rate I plan on adding more costs to techs in the starting Eras. Many times I find the ladder ages lasting quite long but the early ones whizzing by prematurely
Resources. They are limited, and certain key ones as pointed out by a few of you are missing and yet we have others that dont make much sense. The most irritating has to be strategic resources. In my opinion a strategic resource that COMPLETELY disables a Civilization from advancing is stupid. Like Saltpeter, its strategic but yet I have to put one by every Civilization otherwise it will put them and a huge disadvantage where then is the strategy in that? Or like Horses, found originally in Steppes of Asia but in eventually found all over the world again same problem, what do you do? Placing them only in one part of the world gives any Civilizations around there clear advantage, but placing them all over the globe takes away from the strategy aspect I know, it is good to create some limits etc, but I think it has to be within reason . Also there are not enough resources in the game I am looking to expand this, but not just for the sake of adding more but because it will add historical flavor to the game
Unique Units & Golden Age. I sometimes do not find that the UU's impact the game enough, in most cases they are only slightly more powerful than conventional units of their time. I for example would like a UU that is considerably more powerful, this could be done by editing the ADM, or by reducing the cost. So lets say youre playing your game, all of a sudden you see Mongol Horsemen (UU), you panic, because you know this means the Mongols are going through their golden age and you will face hordes of these units. The fear factor has to be there I made a mod a while back and I reduced the Mongol Units cost and increased their Defense higher than any other horse unit. One time I was playing the game as the Chinese, I saw one Mongol UU appear, up until that point the Mongols were backwards and no threat, but with in short time hordes of these units were pouring over my borders the units were exceptionally powerful and I lost number of cities though they did culture flip back to be later on
The point is, tweaking such units really adds some historical flavor to the game
Thats about it for now, once again any insights are welcome
Luis G.
General Mobilization!!
Great great great great great map!!!!!!
It's the first time in 10+ years and three versions of Civ that a world map doesn't features an ugly and inaccurate shape of my country.
It's the first time in 10+ years and three versions of Civ that a world map doesn't features an ugly and inaccurate shape of my country.
Gorgeous map Teturkhan! Special applause for the Caribbean section, Italy, and heck, all the rest of it 
You must have had some tool to get the map editor to produce exactly the coastline you wanted (which is otherwise a pain).
With a max operational range of 8, air units will get even more unrealistic than before...
A thought about the resources. As mentioned, rubber was extremely important during WWII until synthetic rubber was invented; in a similar way, horses were quite "strategic" originally (monopolized by the Central Asian nomads) until the rest of the world started breeding and training them in quantity.
In the light of this, I'm thinking resources should "go obsolete" at some point, e.g. with the discovery of some tech (Synthetic Fibers for rubber, for example).
Special applause for the Caribbean section, Italy, and heck, all the rest of it You must have had some tool to get the map editor to produce exactly the coastline you wanted (which is otherwise a pain).With a max operational range of 8, air units will get even more unrealistic than before...
A thought about the resources. As mentioned, rubber was extremely important during WWII until synthetic rubber was invented; in a similar way, horses were quite "strategic" originally (monopolized by the Central Asian nomads) until the rest of the world started breeding and training them in quantity.
In the light of this, I'm thinking resources should "go obsolete" at some point, e.g. with the discovery of some tech (Synthetic Fibers for rubber, for example).
No tool was used, I took longitude and latitude lines on a globe, where ever they crossed I marked the map with a pollution spot. Using these I did the map square by square... and incredably long process...
glad you like the map - tried real hard to come up with a map for Civ that was bar none the best ever made... lots of maps out there are good, but not to the level I think they could of been...
here is an image of what the map looked while under contruction (note the pollution spots):
glad you like the map - tried real hard to come up with a map for Civ that was bar none the best ever made... lots of maps out there are good, but not to the level I think they could of been...
here is an image of what the map looked while under contruction (note the pollution spots):
Attachments
Yes, I have that feeling about many maps - I look at them and immediately see parts that should be modified. But the current user-created maps around are very high-quality, better than anything made for the earlier games. The Civ2 basic-earth map was so abysmal I just found it plain insulting! (I'm a geography buff, don't mind me )
A note about starting-locations:
* The Persian start looks unplayable - deserts, hills, a few plains? - that can't be irrigated?!? Seems their only hope would be to move west to Mesopotamia, where they'll be greeted by the Babylonians (hopefully not with a deity-level horde ).
* Your Viking start is inaccurate. The so-called Vikings (some of us prefer a different term, e.g. Northmen) originated in southern Sweden, whence the Danes moved into modern Denmark and pushed out the Jutes (who settled England with the Angles). Norway was also settled from Sweden. Whatever capital Firaxis will choose for the Vikings, they really should start out in South-Sweden.
)A note about starting-locations:
* The Persian start looks unplayable - deserts, hills, a few plains? - that can't be irrigated?!? Seems their only hope would be to move west to Mesopotamia, where they'll be greeted by the Babylonians (hopefully not with a deity-level horde
).* Your Viking start is inaccurate. The so-called Vikings (some of us prefer a different term, e.g. Northmen) originated in southern Sweden, whence the Danes moved into modern Denmark and pushed out the Jutes (who settled England with the Angles). Norway was also settled from Sweden. Whatever capital Firaxis will choose for the Vikings, they really should start out in South-Sweden.
Persian starting point: Yes the terrain around the starting point doesn't look good. Keep in mind though, that this is a limitation of the game and not a mistake in the map design. When I make a mod for this map I will compensate/offset such tough areas with resources enabling the city to grow and become vibrant metropolis.
Viking Starting location: From all indications the Viking Capital will be Trondheim and thus the reason I put it there. You are correct though on where the Vikings originated from but in the end my placement of the start point will reflect Firaxis's decision - maybe in the mod I can change this though
Viking Starting location: From all indications the Viking Capital will be Trondheim and thus the reason I put it there. You are correct though on where the Vikings originated from but in the end my placement of the start point will reflect Firaxis's decision - maybe in the mod I can change this though
hzm
Ecco the Dolphin
Antarctica is VERY large. Are you going to do anything to prevent the AI from settling there?
in the mod I will implement tactics to discourage this... yes it is large, Mercators projection really shows a high level of distortion near the poles. Though I could of altered this, I chose to keep true to the projection...
currently the food output of tundra is 1, the same as plains...
let me give it some thought and see what I can come up with...
curious, is the AI known to colonize tundra squares?
currently the food output of tundra is 1, the same as plains...
let me give it some thought and see what I can come up with...
curious, is the AI known to colonize tundra squares?
Lt. 'Killer' M.
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 7,475
teturkhan: what I suggested to you via PM for the Horses migth be done for the Rubber, too
as for the Tundra: in my mod there is no city building on Tundra and Desert. This can be circumvented by planting forest on Tundra, but even then the cities stay small, and the AI will NOT land workers on new islands to plant those forests. Thus, settling a Tundra island will take extremely long.
Also, you could introduce another terrain type 'Polar Ice' - no sttiling, no bonus whatsoever, no roads, no nothing. That WOULD keep the ice-covered areas free. I'll help if i can
as for the Tundra: in my mod there is no city building on Tundra and Desert. This can be circumvented by planting forest on Tundra, but even then the cities stay small, and the AI will NOT land workers on new islands to plant those forests. Thus, settling a Tundra island will take extremely long.
Also, you could introduce another terrain type 'Polar Ice' - no sttiling, no bonus whatsoever, no roads, no nothing. That WOULD keep the ice-covered areas free. I'll help if i can
Looks fabulous, and I don't mind not having to do one now myself!
Question -- what sources did you use for climate / terrain type distribution for 4000 BCE?
I was just bracing myself to work with:
1. "Global Atlas Of Palaeovegetation Since The Last Glacial Maximum": http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tjms/adams4.html
2. "Global Distribution Of Original And Remaining Forests":
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/forest/original.htm
3. "Major Biomes Of The World": http://www.runet.edu/~swoodwar/CLASSES/GEOG235/biomes/main.html
4. World Climates (PDF): http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/world_clim.pdf
5. Interactive map of forest cover changes:
http://www.globalforestwatch.org/english/interactive.maps/global.htm
Also, for alternative 2D projections of the Earth:
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/glob0.htm
All the Best,
Ozymandias
Question -- what sources did you use for climate / terrain type distribution for 4000 BCE?
I was just bracing myself to work with:
1. "Global Atlas Of Palaeovegetation Since The Last Glacial Maximum": http://www.soton.ac.uk/~tjms/adams4.html
2. "Global Distribution Of Original And Remaining Forests":
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/forest/original.htm
3. "Major Biomes Of The World": http://www.runet.edu/~swoodwar/CLASSES/GEOG235/biomes/main.html
4. World Climates (PDF): http://www.eduplace.com/ss/maps/pdf/world_clim.pdf
5. Interactive map of forest cover changes:
http://www.globalforestwatch.org/english/interactive.maps/global.htm
Also, for alternative 2D projections of the Earth:
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/glob0.htm
All the Best,
Ozymandias
I am familiar with a few of your maps, but the 2nd link is the one I used mostly for the forests.
Glad you like the map, just so you know though, I made it without any graphic mods. Meaning it is best viewed with the games original design..
Hmm .
Curious, what does the map look like I wonder with Snoops graphic mod? Hope it hasnt distorted things...
anyone with snoops view the map?
Glad you like the map, just so you know though, I made it without any graphic mods. Meaning it is best viewed with the games original design..
Hmm .
Curious, what does the map look like I wonder with Snoops graphic mod? Hope it hasnt distorted things...
anyone with snoops view the map?
Great map! have you sent it in to the Firaxis site? I havent played with it yet, but I have Womok's Graphic pack, and I'll tell you how it looks in a bit. lmao, you might want to change the name of the Forum title though, or at least mention its a world map. Im very interested in this mod considering you say you had help from a geologist. I also like the idea of antarctica. Btw are you thinking of distributing Barbarian camps? If you accurately place the barbarians. This would limit free techs, and by doing so making it more realistic.
have you sent it in to the Firaxis site? I havent played with it yet, but I have Womok's Graphic pack, and I'll tell you how it looks in a bit. lmao, you might want to change the name of the Forum title though, or at least mention its a world map. Im very interested in this mod considering you say you had help from a geologist. I also like the idea of antarctica. Btw are you thinking of distributing Barbarian camps? If you accurately place the barbarians. This would limit free techs, and by doing so making it more realistic.Im aware of that, But I think good advertizing should say what the thread has in it. For instance Simply the Biggest, most accurate and ultimately Best World Map Ever made for the Game!the title was just a marketing ploy
BtwThe reason I say this is because I was looking for a world map, to populate it (private mod). With accurate City placement. More than starting positions.
If you want to change the name of thread, even slightly to world map, change the header in your first post. Besides, it just so happens I agree with you
. I played it on Womoks mod and it looked fine. It was interesting, I seemed completely stuck in the ancient ages, without resources. . . And I Liked it!
Thats fast, I look foreword to seeing it, you should send it into Firaxis though.
I played it on Womoks mod and it looked fine. It was interesting, I seemed completely stuck in the ancient ages, without resources. . . And I Liked it! 
Mod Update: I have over 200 cities in their historical locations, which is much harder than I originally thought. Things like Name Change, Historical significance, population size etc can make for some tough calls... but so far so good
The real pain in the *** will be in giving each city just the right amount of resources to get it to grow to actual size... I got a formula but to apply it to over 250 cities??? Firaxis you reading this??? should hire me to do all the boring tendias stuff nobody else would!!!
thanks for the compliment - and let me see what I can do about the name....
now where do I go to change it??
Mod Update: I have over 200 cities in their historical locations, which is much harder than I originally thought. Things like Name Change, Historical significance, population size etc can make for some tough calls... but so far so good
The real pain in the *** will be in giving each city just the right amount of resources to get it to grow to actual size... I got a formula but to apply it to over 250 cities??? Firaxis you reading this??? should hire me to do all the boring tendias stuff nobody else would!!!
thanks for the compliment - and let me see what I can do about the name....
now where do I go to change it??
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