TGOM03 - Celts in Space (C3C Demi-god)

[scoutsout]

Okay... I'm considering some wholesale build order changes (generally considered bad form in SGs...) but I think we need to shift gears for a bit and build some infrastructure (and Kul-cher).

The good news is that we have an opportunity here. I was able to get peace and 2 lux deals in pre-flight. The lux deals will allow us to do one of two things, a hard burn on research, or max out cash flow to do some cash-rushing of improvements.

On the research front, we have one turn invested in Chemistry. I can start a fresh University build in GOC...which will take 15 turns to build. We could use that as a pre-build for Cops if we want to try to snag it....

Please read my pre-flight check and offer your thoughts... especially on research, and whether we want to adopt a "hard burn" approach, or spend the cash doing partial rushing to get our infrastructure up to snuff. If you think I've gone daft... feel free to say so.

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Pre-flight check/250 AD
Salt poach and TheRathus are flip risks... we need some culture. Our army is ... a bit disorganized. Time to do a little re-grouping.

Dial up Mursilis and sign straight up peace. He will sell us Wines for Dyes, Silks, and 150g. Hammurabi will trade Incense for Dyes+230g.

Treasury is at 722g+75gpt, Chemistry in 49 at 0% research, lux at 20%.

Trade Dyes+191g to Babylon for Incense. (~9.55gpt, before accounting for TVM) Trade Dyes+Silks+98g to Hittites for Wines (~4.9gpt...)
Take lux down to 0% to see if we can take it...and we cannot. Scroll through our cities, hiring specialists where I can.

Swap Nemausus to Library...though it could use a court as well. Also order up Libraries in Scoutsrest,

Camulodunum...swapped to worker, it has stopped growing. Camulodunum is building a Barracks? I could SWEAR I was building veteran archers there in my last turnset.

Order up a market in Richborough. A court in Bugsrest. A Temple in TheRathus will waste 4 shields. A little MM gets it growing again... it's woefully corrupt.

I'm not so sure a harbor is the way to go in Harrietsburg. It can only work 3 coastal tiles.

Order up a court in Forward Post. Settler in Tolosa and Lindum. (can cash rush...) A harbor in Glanum and North Pole. (Fishing villages... )

Order up a Temple in Salt Poach...short rush with a worker. Library in Cuzco.

Running research at 90%... Hiring every possible scientist gets us Chemistry in 11 turns... pick up a tax collector here and there to run research at -18gpt.

Order up a court in Tiwanaku, and a settler in Curovernum. With 3 scientists there...

 

[Bede]

Looks good.

I would get the infrastucture up to snuff with shields while spending cash on research (the cash on cash return for peddling knowledge is way much better).

Revolt to Republic!!! That will help with research output, happiness and corruption through out the empire. More gold is more gold. Pile all the troops you need into the forward bases to protect against involuntary conversion.

This is just starting to get interesting!

 

[gmaharriet]

I agree. I think we're going to have to get our techs beyond the MA ones and hope we have oil, rubber, etc. We need to get to know the other civs better and have the techs to either trade or steal horses or hold out until horses are no longer so important.

I've never been crazy about MDI's and hope we can avoid fighting Hammi with nothing but them and trebs.

 

[Bede]

I love maces! Harder hitting than knights, same defense values, and so much cheaper. Knights are marginally useful as a cheap upgrade to cavalry :wink:, but the seventy shields get you 1 3/4 maces. True that horse based units an be used more effectively in skirmishing campaigns, but when the objective is crush them under the weight of the army give me maces and trebs every time.

Hold out, what you mean hold out? The situation is far from either dire or desperate. We have the upper hand in territory and growth potential and a revolt to Republic will just fan the flames of the Celtic launch.

 

[gmaharriet]

Harder hitting than knights, same defense values, and so much cheaper.

Guess I never looked at it that way...I hardly ever build them. It's very reassuring to know.

This may not be officially a training game, but there's still so much for me to learn. I appreciate your patient guidance.

 

[Whomp]

lurker's comment: Maces are 4-2 and knights are 4-3 so knights have better defense and speed however 70s is just a weird number at this point in the game. Not too many 3-4 turn opportunities at 70s vs lots at 40s. I agree with Bede give me maces and arty any day. You're not using the mace for D-fence but rather D-struction. Keep it goin' team!

 

[scoutsout]

Okay...revolt to republic... hopefully I can keep our towns from rioting... but with the 2 imported lux and the short Anarchy... it won't be painful.

@harriet: MDI are excellent when the situation calls for combined arms... and this one does. Or will... eventually.

It's late... so with your leave Brother Bede, we'll give the General another day to weigh in on the discussion and I'll get this played tomorrow evening. Sorry for the delays...but I thought it best to pause for a moment at the crossroads.

 

[General Mayhem]

Only thing I'm a little leary on the revolt to republic is if the unit costs go out the roof, but thanks to the RNG last turn it shouldn't be too bad. Probably should check that, but otherwise everything looks good.

 

[scoutsout]

@Whomp: 70s for a 4/3 knight does seem like an odd number, doesn't it? Almost as odd as 40s for a 4/2 MDI and 30s for a 1/3 Pike (or 30s Trebuchet...).

@General: I'll keep an eye on the unit costs, but it'll only be a short term problem. If I can squeeze a few more settlers out for some infill development, it'll help with our unit upkeep.

Okay... I need the team's thoughts on research. My thinking is to swap the queue to Astronomy. Though I suspect we'll lose Cops to a cascade, it couldn't hurt to at least try for it. It's also allow us to build caravels... which brings me to my next thought...

I have an idea...

In all fairness, it's not really my idea. It seems I'm rubbing off on one of my teammates. Harriet PM'd me with the idea that we could build a task force to go after the last Incan city - which has horses. Grab the horses and position ourselves for a cavalry charge of this continent later in the game.

Now, whether or not we decide to finish Pancho off, we will need a navy at some point... there is this matter of a Hittite/Babylonian island to the south of our continent...

What sayeth the crewe?

 

[General Mayhem]

Could work, especially if a palace pre-build is started...

 

[scoutsout]

I'm only 3 turns into this, but I thought I'd post a progress report... it might take me a few more hours to play this. Some notes for the team:

@Bede: "West" is now something of a problem... whoops... Wrong SG Flashback (TM). Sorry. What I meant to say was this:

@Bede: Got some good news, and some bad news.

• The Good News - Celts are now a Republic.
• The Bad News - Celts are now a Republic.

@gmaharriet: How's your kendo?

@General Mayhem: No need to sweat the loss of the Gallic Sword Army. I got us another one.

(Well... parenthetically... not 'another one'... this one's got MDI in it. )

Dispatches to follow.

 

[scoutsout]

Pre-flight check (continued)

Absent objection from the team, I swap the research queue to Astronomy. I spend some of the king's treasury to rush workers and settlers here and there, plus 8g on a court in Lurkersville and 24g and 54g to finish the harbors in Harrietsburg and Bede's Abbey, respectively. Spend 80g on a Temple in Salt Poach. Takes us to 29g at -18gpt.

Then I Melt the Monarch's crown for some fresh gold, and throw the government into Anarchy. Do a city check, wake up some units that can no longer serve as MPs, and dispatch them to cities that are flip risks. Fiddle with the cities, Astronomy in 25 at +6gpt.

Press <Enter>, and hope Hammurabi gives our troops the boot (he could inflict pain if he attacked us now...)

IBT - Hammi gives our troops the boot. Hittites complain about trespassing troops, and we apologize. Curovernum Settler>Library Camulodunum Worker>Market Lurkersville court>aqueduct Harrietsburg harbor>worker Bede's Abbey harbor>Library Tolosa Settler>Court Lindum settler>worker Salt Poach Temple>Library

Hittites building Sistine Washington completes Sistine Chapel (no cascade for Cops, right?)

Turn 1/260 - move some stuff around... At 4 cities, and 21 towns, we can afford 33 units... we have 63 units and 3 settlers. We just need to get a few towns in... maybe disband a few warriors.

IBT - Babylon complains about a trespassing galley. Babylon sends troops into our territory. Here we go... a musket/longbow pair, and a bowman.

Turn 2/270 MM our cities... it appears war with Hammurabit is in the offing. Sell Invention to Japan for 30g+3gpt. HereWeGo founded next to North Pole. Queue up a Temple to get the fish. Move some stuff... Swap Scoutsrest and Richborough to MDI. Do a little tile swapping to get Scoutsrest up to 8spt after waste.

IBT - Babylonian troops advance. We now have 2 more muskets and a longbow in our territory.

Turn 3/280 - Time to see if I can still warmonger in Republic. (Any takers? )

Dial up Hammi, give him the boot, and....

First Gallic Sword retreats after doing 1hp damage to the Bab Bowman. Pull an Elite GS from WAAAY back in the rear, whack the Bowman, and...

Trebs do some more damage. I think I'll call this screenie "Parenthetically". As in, this is what can happen when a (full strength) Longbow attacks a (redlined) Musket.

Two down... more to fall. Go after a 2/4 Longbow with a Regular Warrior and lose. There now, I officially have a kill ratio for this war, rather than a #DIV/0!! error.

Parenthetically, here's what happened to the Longbow. (GS was able to retreat to GOC).

Our 2 unit MDI army takes out a musket. I am pulled away to found TundraFarm. Queue up a Library. (Bede can change...)

Worker turns...

...whack the other Bab Musket with a longbow. (Kill ratio now four to one.)

... Pull the pike from GOC to cover the trebs. (Note to team: I do NOT go after the last longbow... if you want an explanation I'll give it... but that tile borders Babylon. Any unit left there will die IBT.)

...borrow a page from an old American book (Bugs1). Feeling a bit lonely, I do what all good Americans do when short on friends. I go out and buy some.

Welcome to the Furball Hammurabi.

Save off the game... so I can update the team.

 

[General Mayhem]

Good job on getting the army back, I'm just worried that massive amounts of bab muskets may prove too much for our assault forces.

 

[gmaharriet]

Well, there goes any plan for peacefully building a task force to finish off Pancho and get horses.

At least buying in the Hittites with 32gpt ought to discourage them from making immediate peace with Hammi, and the Babs are caught between two fronts now. That ought to draw off some of their units. Also, we should be getting a bit of war happiness, huh?

Lead on, Scout MacDuff! I'll try to follow wherever you take us. Seems like I remember saying something about wanting to learn more about war.

 

[scoutsout]

Back to the game... Turn 3/280AD Swap Harrietsburg to Trebuchet, a little MM to get Astronomy in 14... hit <Enter>

IBT - Babs capture a slave worker I forgot to take off of a mountain. They advance one Musket into our territory. Richborough MDI>MDI Palace Expansion.

Babylon starts Copernicus' Obeservatory.

Turn 4/290 Redline the musket and rest the troops.

IBT - Babylon advances troops...including the redlined musket... Scoutsrest trains another MDI, and I'll need to watch the treasury here... America starts Copernicus'.

Turn 5/300 Kill the redlined musket with an Elite GS who fails his promotion boards. Trebs do their thing, and we kill 3 Bowmen... a spear...another bowman... MDI army flawlessly kills a redlined musket, and another (promoting one) Archer kills a longbow...Gallic sword kills a longbow....

That's 10 units killed this turn. My only combat loss in this war is a regular warrior.

IBT - Babs advance more units. Oh my goodness, they've managed to get 3 Bowmen, a Longbow, and a Spear to the tile 1W of GOC!!!

Turn 6/310 Whack a couple of Bowman...a longbow...a spear...a Bowman... redline one of our Longbows going after a spear... whack the last Bowman in our territory with an elite Gallic Sword, who then retreats to TedJacksonville.

That's 7 this turn... or 21 so far in the war. If I hadn't lost that warrior, I'd have one more unit to use for MP duty when I sack that Bab city with the Salt.

IBT - a couple of Bab Galleys show up on our western peninsula. Whoops... they're Japanese... but a pair of them? Doesn't look good.

Turn 7/320

In the process of clearing out the Babylonian interlopers....

This was more than fortuitous...as I was debating whether or not to send our Army (now our OTHER army) to meet the Japanese expedionary force.

IBT - Babylon does not send a single unit against us. Richborough continues training MDI. Japanese navy wanders off.

Turn 8/330 Give the troops a rest...

IBT - Carthage declares war on the Hittites! TJ'ville completes the Forbidden Palace, and starts training MDI. Nemausus completes a library, starts a rax. We're now at +26gpt, Astronomy in 3.

Turn 9/340 Advance troops on Eulbar.

Dial up Hannibal and Trade Astronomy for Silks and Dyes. We have a trade route open with America. Trade Silks+Dyes for Furs+7gpt.

IBT - Hittites request and audience...He wants RoP+Alliance v. Hannibal. I trade him Silks+Dyes+5gpt for wines.

WLTKD kicks off in a town or two. Mistburg completes a harbor, starts a Library.

Turn 10 - Trebuchet's knock a total of 3hp off the 3 muskets defending Eulbar. There's at least one longbow in there too. One Army goes to 5/12 killing a 2/3 musket.

Time to get methodical.

The wounded Army is renamed II Corps. Healthy Army is renamed I Corps, and moved into position with the stack. Two Pikemen are fortified on the spot. Two more MDI (one elite) join the stack from GOC. Skirmishing units are left in the vicinity of GOC and TJ'ville. Three Gallic Swords (one elite, two elite*), one MDI, and a Veteran longbow are outside GOC. An Archer and a Longbow are in TJ'ville. That should be enough to hold off a few bowmen.

 

[scoutsout]

Here's the tactic: Bombard with the Trebs. Any Muskets with more than 1hp remaining, whack with a healthy MDI Army. If there are any muskets with hit points remaining, rest the other army. Only send the individual MDI and Longbows against redlined muskets, or Longbows. It will be slow going, but it should be decisive. Fight patiently, fight decisively. Kill more than you lose, and we shall prevail. It'll just take a little longer at Demi-God.

...and another thing...Once we take Hannibal's salt, he'll start building longbows - a lot of them. Longbows are easy to kill, but they can bite back against isolated units...and I've even had them come after sword and MDI Armies. Keep the stack together as much as possible.

Here's >>> The Save <<<

 

[scoutsout]

Sorry for the triple-post, but I forgot to mention something - don't upgrade the Gallic Swords. They're the only fast units we've got, and it's nice to have them to pick off redlined Longbows and retreat to safety.

I hope we can get some ponies soon. Cavalry are not far off...

 

[General Mayhem]

From experience, if an army is even missing 2 HP the RNG will take that as a pretext for killing it, so watch out

Good turns, you'll have to tell me what sacrifices to the RNG gods you make to get that kind of luck with treb hits...

 

[Bede]

Whoooooop!! Tally ho!! The fox is out of covert, the scent is breast high and you can cover the hounds with a blanket. The big dogs are really running now.

Roster check:

gmaharriet - hear that horn? He's playing your song: "Gone Away"
Bede - and will get to do it all over again.
General M - got the furball in a knot!
scoutsout - ready for peace? I didn't think so.

Right about the end of my turns we will be knock, knock, knockin' on Hittite's door!!

 

[gmaharriet]

Hey, 2 more armies!

Got it and will play tomorrow night. I looked at the save. After taking Eubar and pillaging the Bab salt, should I go for Ellipi next after time to heal? Other target? There's a settler near GOC under the GS's, so should I keep Eubar or raze and replace? There are several other possibilities for a new town. How about west of Salt Poach? Team's thoughts on this?

Would it be safe to send our workers to hook up the salt at Salt Poach? We could use a musket or three. There are 3 MDI's and 1 treb due in 2 or 3 turns. Should they join the armies or defend other areas of our front?

Research is to Astronomy in 9. Metallury after that?

Scout, I'd also like to know what offering you made to the RNG god? I hope he'll be as good to me.

Any other suggestions?