TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)

[Bede]

You da man, SW. Learn to give in graciously, you'll like it. Just remember to keep a list. Actually I'm surprised it hasn't happened earlier.

BTW, when demands are made you can click the advisor's face to get to any screen you want so you can adjust spending to avoid losing a granary, for example. You can even play let's make a deal to beef up the treasury. The only thing you can't do is open a trading window with the demanding party.

And next time a town riots on your watch you get to write on the blackboard 100X:

Initio sapientiae timor domini.


Rota:
namliaM - up
Methos - in the wings
S'ven - made a great debut
Bede - tried not to screw the pooch
soul - beat the clock

 

[namliaM]

I got it...
@Soul: To bad about the mishap
Good job of moving things along.
1 question: Why not leave the warrior on the spot of Heartbreak Ridge while it was there. That spot is 'the sweet spot' of that neighbourhood. Good defensive bonus, Have the Wheat, floodplane and oasis and be on the river.

Just looked at the save and did some trade searching:

a) We can buy the (as far as we know) Monopoly tech HBR from Persia @ 370g (NOT an option I think)
(NOTE: Barbs can now get horses too)
Buy Misticism @ 139g from Sumeria (they have no gold)
Or trade it for
1) The Wheel (approx cost CAII 78)
2) Iron Working (approx cost CAII 120)

Buy Misticism @ 144g from Greece

Trading the wheel to Sumeria seems like a nice option?
Downside: It hurries them allong toward HBR (they have horses). Maybe the more expensive option? IW? They have no Iron anyway , and should be dead 'soon'? AND every other AI allready have IW. Seems like the (allmost) perfect deal to me?!
Using Mist to sell on is not really in the cards at the moment. Don't think Persia will like to trade for (monopoly) HBR and the 25g from Germany is non to intresting I think.

b) I thought we did not need a barracks in Boston? We allready have 10 shields invested in a barracks.....?

c) what to do about that 1 archer on ne-ne of NY? What if it steps into our territory? Demand it to leave?

d) the worker on the marsch should it clear/road or road/clear or just road to get the spice in ASAP?

e) What if/when the worker reaches the spice? Clear/road or road/clear or just road to road and mine the BG ASAP?

Would like to discuss and/or have answers to a b c d and e before i really start.

 

[soul_warrior]

1 question: Why not leave the warrior on the spot of Heartbreak Ridge while it was there. That spot is 'the sweet spot' of that neighbourhood. Good defensive bonus, Have the Wheat, floodplane and oasis and be on the river.

i think i moved it back for MP leaving the archer as outlook (better attack if needed)

Just looked at the save and did some trade searching:

a) We can buy the (as far as we know) Monopoly tech HBR from Persia @ 370g (NOT an option I think)
(NOTE: Barbs can now get horses too)
Buy Misticism @ 139g from Sumeria (they have no gold)
Or trade it for
1) The Wheel (approx cost CAII 78)
2) Iron Working (approx cost CAII 120)

Buy Misticism @ 144g from Greece

Trading the wheel to Sumeria seems like a nice option?
Downside: It hurries them allong toward HBR (they have horses). Maybe the more expensive option? IW? They have no Iron anyway , and should be dead 'soon'? AND every other AI allready have IW. Seems like the (allmost) perfect deal to me?!
Using Mist to sell on is not really in the cards at the moment. Don't think Persia will like to trade for (monopoly) HBR and the 25g from Germany is non to intresting I think.

iron working seems nicer to me

b) I thought we did not need a barracks in Boston? We allready have 10 shields invested in a barracks.....?

the rax there was just a placeholder, as the growth rate there is bad ( i wanted a worker, but no go)

c) what to do about that 1 archer on ne-ne of NY? What if it steps into our territory? Demand it to leave?

depends how ready we will be for war. thats another reason why i left the archer nearby.

d) the worker on the marsch should it clear/road or road/clear or just road to get the spice in ASAP?

my plan was road now. we have a settler coming in 1 turn or so. as soon as we connect the lux the better.
after we connect we can clear the marshes in our own good time

e) What if/when the worker reaches the spice? Clear/road or road/clear or just road to road and mine the BG ASAP?

road and get to the BG. it will be a while till the new town will use many tiles. use now what we can. we can clear it out later.

 

[Bede]

a) We can buy the (as far as we know) Monopoly tech HBR from Persia @ 370g (NOT an option I think)
(NOTE: Barbs can now get horses too)

Both true

Buy Misticism @ 139g from Sumeria (they have no gold)
Or trade it for
1) The Wheel (approx cost CAII 78)
2) Iron Working (approx cost CAII 120)

I'd rather keep our cash and IW and TW for Mathematics/Writing trades than Mysticism. We are not behind the curve on the Poytheism path yet as no one has started ToA, right? Our govenment choice is Republic and the lowest row only leads to Monarchy and the era change and because of the wonders available the other nations will overprice the knowledge. So I would wait for them to cheapen unless there is a brokerage opportunty out there as Polytheism makes nice trade bait.

Trading the wheel to Sumeria seems like a nice option?
Downside: It hurries them allong toward HBR (they have horses). Maybe the more expensive option? IW? They have no Iron anyway , and should be dead 'soon'? AND every other AI allready have IW. Seems like the (allmost) perfect deal to me?!

Iron Working for cash and Mysticism is a good one, though, given the above. And if you can't get both take the cash. See below:

Using Mist to sell on is not really in the cards at the moment. Don't think Persia will like to trade for (monopoly) HBR and the 25g from Germany is non to intresting I think.

HBR is only interesting to is if we have horses and we don't. It doesn't open any other tech choices so we can skip it for now.

c) what to do about that 1 archer on ne-ne of NY? What if it steps into our territory? Demand it to leave?

Ignore him. He is barbarian hunting and represents no threat to us. And we are not ready for the Sumerian war.

d) the worker on the marsch should it clear/road or road/clear or just road to get the spice in ASAP?

e) What if/when the worker reaches the spice? Clear/road or road/clear or just road to road and mine the BG ASAP?

Whatever sequence connects the spice fastest. Skip the road on the settlement spot and clearing wetlands and jungle at this stage isn't worth the worker turns. Wait until we can gang on it.

And I wondered about the barracks my self but what's done is done. What else can we buy for 10 shields?

 

[namliaM]

OK Played == Warning! NOT for the faint of heart ! ==

Clipnotes:
The archer(s) from sumeria were NOT barb hunting, they attacked NY Out of the blue. I switched everything to archers (cancelled the Settler in WDC)
All in all we loose some Archers in freek fights (Archer (5/5) attack an archer (3/3)on grass and lose?!)
and we kill some archers.

Now the Sums are willing to talk, tho I did not notice that till (allmost) end turn. So I left 2 units "movable", a spear and archer near Agada. I do not think they should attack the fortified Enk (on a hill) with probably 1 or more Enks behind it.
The sums are unwilling to handover Poly at the moment, maybe if we throw in Writing or The Wheel (dont want to give wheel to Sums I think)

The sums are building ToA in Lagash!

Greeks have taken our spices!

Handover:
Should we talk peace? We currently have 6 archers 2 Spears.
The Sums have 3 archers near NY with 1 being hidden in the fog
on one of the 3 dots.

There are barbarians to the SE of NY somewhere...
and I discovered some new land using a Curragh for exploring, hope we find some new tribes to trade with.

With "proper" management WDC will produce 20 shields in 2 turns (11 + 9 or reverse) Building an archer in 2 turns. Once the mine S of DC is done its easier (10+10). I suggest keeping DC on a Archer-Archer-Worker rotation for a while, producing the worker on growth to 6. It is precisely a 5 turn rotation when managed properly.

We may want to produce a Settler next in NY, Barracks in Boston will be done in 1 turn. I thought we would need the additional Vet archers.
The trades situation:

Editted to ad the save & Turnlog
The save

 

[Methos]

I'm not positive, but usually the opponents are not willing to talk until their either low on units, war weariness is high, or your about to take their capitol. So the question is do we have the ability to continue on with this war? Plus do we want to continue?

I still need to look at the save.

Edit:According to our military advisor our army is weak to that of the Sumerians. Granted that doesn’t always mean much. We currently have six archers, two spearman, and three warriors. We “see” two Sumerian archers and namliaM says there’s one more in the fog.

I find it interesting that Sumeria is heading towards NY when it has six units guarding it when both Boston and WDC has only one? Makes me wonder if there is some sort of future resource located there?

Out of curiosity I pulled up the combat calculator between the elite archer and the enkidu warrior in Agade. Between the hill, river, and him being fortified I don’t think the chance is worth it. Here is what the calculator says:

After looking this over I’m not too for sure we want to continue this war. We have the ability to send the five archers at or near NY into Sumeria but it will leave our cities with very little protection.

Then again, we could send a small force and take Agade, though I would suggest repositioning the elite archer and spearman who is already there.

Looking at the spices I wonder if we could still get them without war? What if we placed a city in the spot indicated on the map and attempted a culturally takeover? It might take a while but it may be worth it. The location I marked would still have 2 bg’s within it’s radius.

Edit 2: After thinking it over I don't believe I like the cultural flip I suggested. By building that city it screws up our fishing village we had discussed. I'd suggest instead we still build our fishing village on the NE tile from the fish and eventually just take the Greek city.

 

[soul_warrior]

Out of curiosity I pulled up the combat calculator between the elite archer and the enkidu warrior in Agade. Between the hill, river, and him being fortified I don’t think the chance is worth it.

havent used to combat calc, but didnt really need to. defensive unit, across a river, on a hill, holed up in a city? no, thank you.

Looking at the spices I wonder if we could still get them without war? What if we placed a city in the spot indicated on the map and attempted a culturally takeover? It might take a while but it may be worth it. The location I marked would still have 2 bg’s within it’s radius
Edit 2: After thinking it over I don't believe I like the cultural flip I suggested. By building that city it screws up our fishing village we had discussed. I'd suggest instead we still build our fishing village on the NE tile from the fish and eventually just take the Greek city.

i agree, in proviso. why not move that town 1SE, onto that jungle tile? it will leave that fisherie all immediate 8 tiles + will share some with the flip-town. (CxxxC distance)
if we rush a temple and a lib it should flip to us. and we do need the lux.

 

[Bede]

Going to take a break from the GOTM (still alive in 1080, and not completely out of the tech race) and run a shadow on Mailguy, as I am curious about something.

Will let you know the results.

 

[Bede]

Anyway, I was wrong about Sumeria.

I igonored the archer and the stupid got declared anyway. Then spent some time just killing his troops until he wanted to talk.

The other thing I wanted to test was whether or not we could get to the spices before Greece, and I couldn't, even with a lot of spear dancing.

My only suggestion is take what you can get for peace, then build a bunch of cats, an equal number of spears and some more archers than march on the Sumerians.

 

[Methos]

My only suggestion is take what you can get for peace, then build a bunch of cats, an equal number of spears and some more archers than march on the Sumerians.

So go ahead and take peace? Sounds good.

Oh yeah, I got it.

Edit: As I recall cats need a road to cross anything other than plains and grass right? Just wondering if we are going to need to build roads to our future sumerian cities.

 

[Methos]

@Mailman: Since we don't plan on continueing this war what would you have done with the elite archer and spearman located to the west of Agade? I hate to play on someone else's turn.

@everyone: Checking the F4 I noticed Sumeria is willing to negotiate peace for either Writing or The Wheel. I hate to give them the wheel since they have horses in their territory. Should we instead give them Writing?

My current plans are to wait until it is my turn before declaring peace, is that okay? Or should I go ahead and do it at the end of Mailman's turn?

 

[soul_warrior]

Anyway, I was wrong about Sumeria.

a moment to remember always

[quote-Bede]My only suggestion is take what you can get for peace, then build a bunch of cats, an equal number of spears and some more archers than march on the Sumerians.[/QUOTE]
its Gil's Bash soon.

 

[namliaM]

The Spear-archer combo I hoped to use as a lure to draw some of their fire. Unfortunatly nothing yet. I finished my turnset like this on purpose, If i had noticed the talks earlier I would have forgone my entire last turn. Leaving you with 11 turns. I thougt it was an important enough point to quit.

Peace: Trade Poly for Writing
Instead of just giving them writing.
Maybe need to look at other deals that include writing, before sums go ahead and finish the trade all around.

Might be a plan to wait one more turn
Them archers move in, Kill them then talk peace. Makes for 2 less archers in the future. As I allready stated above, "it is your call"

Regards

 

[Methos]

Might be a plan to wait one more turn
Them archers move in, Kill them then talk peace. Makes for 2 less archers in the future. As I allready stated above, "it is your call"

I was actually thinking of this as well. This way we could hopefully kill off two more of their units and promote are own. Let's hope as this is my plan of action.

For this turn I'll leave the archer spearman combo outside of Agade as moving them might adjust the peace talks later. Don't know if this is true or not but I've noticed before when you have units parked outside a city they are more likely to talk peace.

I'll check around on the trades and see what all is available.

 

[Methos]

I haven't even finished my 1st turn but thought I'd at least update everyone. As Mailman stated there was a Sumerian archer in the fog though it turned out to be two of them. We lost one of our archers and killed three of theirs. After this I than negotiated peace with them and posted an image of the deal below. Figured you all wouldn't mind if I gave them cash instead so we could keep from giving our arch-enemy any techs.

Also curious if we wanted to establish any embassies? We've got the cash so I don't see why not. Well, better get back to the game.

 

[soul_warrior]

cash seems a-ok for peace
atleast the kill ratio is ok too.

 

[Methos]

Right now none of the current builds are set in stone. To be honest I wasn’t for sure what to build so I just left it at units so the next player could adjust it to their liking. I was thinking of letting WDC grow to at least size 5 before popping another settler. At size 5 we can build one in 3 turns.

I hope you all don’t mind but since we had the cash I went ahead and established an embassy in every civ. It cost a total of 225 gold. I’ve attached the image of each city below.

We also have some great trades possible as in Map Making. I believe this would be a good trade as a harbor could be very beneficial to some of our cities.

 

[Methos]

Ran up to the limit on attachments in the post above, so here's the game and the notes.

So the question is how do we proceed?

Edit: For some reason couldn't upload the notes with the 'Upload Files'. Oh well, this works too.

 

[Bede]

Good call on paying cash especially as you got out so cheaply.

The next settler should build towards the Sumerian capitol in the NE as an outpost and waystation on the road to Ur. No improvements other than walls. Another town could be built on the road to Agade as well.

Go straight to military build up once that settler is done. It will take at least four cats, four spears and six archers to take the capitol and probably two cats two spears and four archers to take Agade.

Gil will trade for HBR as soon as we declare so make sure any towns have a decent buffer between high ground and our gates. We don't need horsemen sweeping out of the mountains and hills at us.

On to Ur

Rota:
S'ven - up. build some troops!
Bede - on deck
soul - started the hit list
namliaM - got hit
Methos - got us out relatively unscathed.

 

[Methos]

Was going back over my game and realized some mistakes I made.

I liked Mailman’s idea about the archer-archer-worker and followed through with that even though I had plans on eventually switching to settler. What I should have done instead was adjusted Mailman’s idea to archer-settler, as this would have caused the settler to finish at growth of 6. WDC would have dropped to 4 instead of 3. Instead I went archer-archer-worker-settler. Major mistake as far as I'm concerned.

I also never considered building our new city near Sumeria, instead immediately headed over to the fish. I should have put more thought into the city placement, as well as gone back over our previous maps or discussed it on the board. The city should do okay but I’m not sure it helps with our current condition.

I’m not for sure if this is a mistake as it was mentioned by Bede that we needed both cats and spears. I built us up to three spearman and thirteen archers. I hesitated about building spears (I typically don’t) but figured we needed a few.

I would have to say I like this playing ten turns and stopping, it gets me to pay more attention to my turns both during and after the fact. We’ve barely started and I feel I’m already learning a lot.