TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)
- Thread starter Bede
- Start date
Well, I'm done. Here's the save and write up. Not much occured outside of moving scouts, as there was little MM to do. Highlight was the trading I did to get us Iron Working and The Wheel. I still left Ceremonial Burial alone, though we can get it off of Sumeria, who is 4 techs behind, but may outpace all civs with their very fast expansion. Bringing war to them is a definite yes, the only question is how soon. All in all, I had a peaceful non-eventful set of turns.
Aww now S'ven, you're just mean. 
I leave for work in 30 minutes and now you have to post your game!?! 
Besides, this gives me something to think about during work, other than work of course. And they wonder why I'm always just kind of standing there
Edit: Well that sucks that Babylon is right next to three Iron and what appears to be the only Iron on our continent. With any luck once all the fog is cleared there might be more closer. If you Ctr-Shift-N youll notice that the Babylonian city of Ashur is built on top of an Iron.
The one nice thing about this is Babylon is the only civ with Iron.
I also notice we have what may be another landmass to the west of scout 2.
Wow the other civs our expanding fast!
With Washingtons growth the barracks will be done on the first turn of the next player, so thats good.
Havent had a chance to look at your notes very well as I need to get ready for work, but great job so far! Just curious what we had to pay for Iron Working? Im assuming Alphabet?
Edit2: According to our military advisor there is an Anasazi tribe near Washington. We might want to watch out for barbarians close to home.
Edit3: It looks like we are all being very careful on how we are playing each turn. Considering after 40 turns we have a play time of 4 hours and 3 minutes!?! That's an average of 6 minutes a turn! Hate to see how long a turn will take in the future era's?
I leave for work in 30 minutes and now you have to post your game!?! Besides, this gives me something to think about during work, other than work of course. And they wonder why I'm always just kind of standing there
Edit: Well that sucks that Babylon is right next to three Iron and what appears to be the only Iron on our continent. With any luck once all the fog is cleared there might be more closer. If you Ctr-Shift-N youll notice that the Babylonian city of Ashur is built on top of an Iron.
The one nice thing about this is Babylon is the only civ with Iron.
I also notice we have what may be another landmass to the west of scout 2.
Wow the other civs our expanding fast!
With Washingtons growth the barracks will be done on the first turn of the next player, so thats good.
Havent had a chance to look at your notes very well as I need to get ready for work, but great job so far! Just curious what we had to pay for Iron Working? Im assuming Alphabet?
Edit2: According to our military advisor there is an Anasazi tribe near Washington. We might want to watch out for barbarians close to home.
Edit3: It looks like we are all being very careful on how we are playing each turn. Considering after 40 turns we have a play time of 4 hours and 3 minutes!?! That's an average of 6 minutes a turn! Hate to see how long a turn will take in the future era's?
Of you guys learn nothing more than "play deliberately" this TGOMTG will consider this game a success.In the Mag7+1 SID epic the turns were lasting well over two hours apiece, that is per turn, not per set of 5 or ten.
Nicely played S'ven. I don't know that Iwould have played it any differently except for the scouting. Moving scouts on the N-S or E-W axes is the most efficient way of uncovering the map. Generally I run my explorers out to the coasts, using the high ground when available, then run the coastlines. If I see something interesting I will deviate from that pattern. Clockwise scouting is not very efficient and is useful only in AW games where you want to be very, very careful.
The area of greatest interest
Plan for the monk's ten:
Send a pair of warriors into Sumeria just to keep an eye on them and another to the coast at Lagash to monitor contacts or movement south by Sumer or north by Persia.
Do some intensive improvement at New York.
Get at least one more worker on the ground, plus an archer or two.
I will proabaly go ahead and buy Ceremonial Burial as everybody else knows it so it is now cheap relative to a few turns ago.
namliaM
Deity
Vet warrior(s) is that worth it? They can be upgraded to swords but we need Iron no idea where it is at the moment (have not seen save still) but I understand we dont have any.
From the pic we dont have horses either, maybe archer better than 2 wars?
At size 5 washington should be producing 11 spt (5 mined BG & city center).
At size 4 should be 9 spt (4 mined BD & City center)
@ size 5
Archer (2 turn)
Archer (2 turn)
Worker (1 turn)
Grow to 6 (worker done, shrink to 5)
So washington @ size5 could remain at 5 and be an Arch-Arch-Worker pump?
New York "only" has 3 BG.
@size 3, 7spt = 3 turn for archers (not accounting for waste)
maybe arch-arch-settler? or Arch-Arch-Arch-settler?
While we go from size 3 to 5 in Wash (10 turns)
size3: 7 spt, meaning 3 turn for arch. Count 1 arch at size 3
size4: 9 spt, maybe we should get 2 rivers "normal grass" mined. Reducing to 7 spt, 3 turn Arch. But Arch is allready on the way. Thus 2 Arch.
Size5 11 spt, maybe use 1 mined "normal grass" for extra commerce and 10spt. Depending on how we "get into size 5"
It can be an "everlasting" Arch-Arch-Worker thing producing 2 archers and a worker every 5 turns. BUT we need to get the settlers elsewhere.
Or repeat and rinse above So after the worker on size 5, take 3 turns to create a settler and start back at size3.
By the time we are 15 turns further we have 5 archers and a worker more.
Plus what New York can give us. Now @ 17 turns from Barracks, 4 more turns @ size 1. 13 turns/2 (because of size 2) 6 or 7 turns Till finish. So total 10 or 11 turns to barracks finish.
Then still at size 2 take (approx) 5 turns to build an archer. So 16 alltogether.
Now @ size 3 add 2 spt to 6 spt = 4 turns for an archer or 5 for settler.
Maybe we should try to get them hill towns (city 3 and 4) in Bede's post here as a front against Sumeria. Put 1 or 2 Spears in them, fortified on Hill let them try and take that with archers/horsemen?
In other words, in 16 turns we will have (vet) 6 archers. 6 is low on starting the war. Maybe by this time both produce one settler, and repeat?
Running into something like 30 turns to start the war. At which time we have 10 or so (vet) archers. 4 towns and more (support) archers on the way, is that enough? Doubt it.... but 30 to 40 turns is about enough (i think) for the Pyramids to finish @ Ur?
My goals for the war:
1) take out horse prod capability
2) capture Lagash for gems/city#3
3) capture Ur for Pyramids
@BedeAs for 1) will it heart our rep (or something) if we have a warrior inside sumerian territory when we dow? So we can take the road off horses and/or the dyes and/or Gems (take out the lux to make them use clowns more to keep pop happy, thus slowing unit prod a bit)
I will try and do my "shadow" strat vs Methos' turns and will -try to- have a more serious @S'ven's turns.
@Bede & AllCan/should i post back 'my' results of my strat vs that of Methos? Or will that only add to confusion?
Hmz... 'quick note' ???
From the pic we dont have horses either, maybe archer better than 2 wars?
At size 5 washington should be producing 11 spt (5 mined BG & city center).
At size 4 should be 9 spt (4 mined BD & City center)
@ size 5
Archer (2 turn)
Archer (2 turn)
Worker (1 turn)
Grow to 6 (worker done, shrink to 5)
So washington @ size5 could remain at 5 and be an Arch-Arch-Worker pump?
New York "only" has 3 BG.
@size 3, 7spt = 3 turn for archers (not accounting for waste)
maybe arch-arch-settler? or Arch-Arch-Arch-settler?
While we go from size 3 to 5 in Wash (10 turns)
size3: 7 spt, meaning 3 turn for arch. Count 1 arch at size 3
size4: 9 spt, maybe we should get 2 rivers "normal grass" mined. Reducing to 7 spt, 3 turn Arch. But Arch is allready on the way. Thus 2 Arch.
Size5 11 spt, maybe use 1 mined "normal grass" for extra commerce and 10spt. Depending on how we "get into size 5"
It can be an "everlasting" Arch-Arch-Worker thing producing 2 archers and a worker every 5 turns. BUT we need to get the settlers elsewhere.
Or repeat and rinse above So after the worker on size 5, take 3 turns to create a settler and start back at size3.
By the time we are 15 turns further we have 5 archers and a worker more.
Plus what New York can give us. Now @ 17 turns from Barracks, 4 more turns @ size 1. 13 turns/2 (because of size 2) 6 or 7 turns Till finish. So total 10 or 11 turns to barracks finish.
Then still at size 2 take (approx) 5 turns to build an archer. So 16 alltogether.
Now @ size 3 add 2 spt to 6 spt = 4 turns for an archer or 5 for settler.
Maybe we should try to get them hill towns (city 3 and 4) in Bede's post here as a front against Sumeria. Put 1 or 2 Spears in them, fortified on Hill let them try and take that with archers/horsemen?
In other words, in 16 turns we will have (vet) 6 archers. 6 is low on starting the war. Maybe by this time both produce one settler, and repeat?
Running into something like 30 turns to start the war. At which time we have 10 or so (vet) archers. 4 towns and more (support) archers on the way, is that enough? Doubt it.... but 30 to 40 turns is about enough (i think) for the Pyramids to finish @ Ur?
My goals for the war:
1) take out horse prod capability
2) capture Lagash for gems/city#3
3) capture Ur for Pyramids
@BedeAs for 1) will it heart our rep (or something) if we have a warrior inside sumerian territory when we dow? So we can take the road off horses and/or the dyes and/or Gems (take out the lux to make them use clowns more to keep pop happy, thus slowing unit prod a bit)
I will try and do my "shadow" strat vs Methos' turns and will -try to- have a more serious @S'ven's turns.
@Bede & AllCan/should i post back 'my' results of my strat vs that of Methos? Or will that only add to confusion?
Hmz... 'quick note' ???
And we meet the Germans in the mountains north of Sparta.
And in 2110 relieve Bismarck's his treasury of 25g for Masonry. He already has everything else as he knows the Greeks.
Since the MP is out scouting the north and hoping for promotion Washington threatens to riot but it only costs a single gold piece to put it all right.
The barracks is done so Washington starts and archer.
In 2070 find another hut in the far southeast and make sure research is still locked on Ceremonial Burial and that Washington is building a settler and I get maps of Tierra del Fuego.
This is truly interesting
Why do you think a Sumerian settler pair is braving the jungles to the south?
And the local yokels come to pay a courtesy call, just in time to meet our archer
In 1950 the yokels from the camp kill our warrior on the mountain and the wandering band pillages an unneeded road.
So in 1910 the archer at Washington gets eagle fletching for his arrows (promotes to elite) by killing the offender.
And in 1870 kill a second barb.
The Germans start the Pyramids in 1870.
Our second newly minted archer also gets his eagles killing another barbarian in 1830 and our scout on the border of Babylon and Greece finds another example of fine town planning.
Now that Ceremonial Burial is as cheap as it is going to be, get it and 21g from Gil of Sumer for Alphabet. Turns out Greece and Sumeria know Mysticism.
It would be really nice if someone researched writing for us.
And this is how it looks in 1750....after killing the last yokel in the territory.
SitRep
Improvements done at New York and Washington is in pretty good shape. Settler priority is 3NW from Washington to plains, I think. Build archers in New York until the food box is full than maybe a settler, archer-archer-settler in Washington when the settler finishes for one more settler to claim the spices W than archer-archer-archer. Boston can build catapults as soon as we can buy Math, don't bother with a barracks or granary yet, while waiting it can build a worker or two.
And in 2110 relieve Bismarck's his treasury of 25g for Masonry. He already has everything else as he knows the Greeks.
Since the MP is out scouting the north and hoping for promotion Washington threatens to riot but it only costs a single gold piece to put it all right.
The barracks is done so Washington starts and archer.
In 2070 find another hut in the far southeast and make sure research is still locked on Ceremonial Burial and that Washington is building a settler and I get maps of Tierra del Fuego.
This is truly interesting
Why do you think a Sumerian settler pair is braving the jungles to the south?
And the local yokels come to pay a courtesy call, just in time to meet our archer
In 1950 the yokels from the camp kill our warrior on the mountain and the wandering band pillages an unneeded road.
So in 1910 the archer at Washington gets eagle fletching for his arrows (promotes to elite) by killing the offender.
And in 1870 kill a second barb.
The Germans start the Pyramids in 1870.
Our second newly minted archer also gets his eagles killing another barbarian in 1830 and our scout on the border of Babylon and Greece finds another example of fine town planning.
Now that Ceremonial Burial is as cheap as it is going to be, get it and 21g from Gil of Sumer for Alphabet. Turns out Greece and Sumeria know Mysticism.
It would be really nice if someone researched writing for us.
And this is how it looks in 1750....after killing the last yokel in the territory.
SitRep
Improvements done at New York and Washington is in pretty good shape. Settler priority is 3NW from Washington to plains, I think. Build archers in New York until the food box is full than maybe a settler, archer-archer-settler in Washington when the settler finishes for one more settler to claim the spices W than archer-archer-archer. Boston can build catapults as soon as we can buy Math, don't bother with a barracks or granary yet, while waiting it can build a worker or two.
namliaM
Deity
Not to gloat or antyhing but this is what Washington looks like with my worker turns.
And explored (only) 20 more tiles using the Warrior 1, tho i could not get the scout turns right. Something off with the movements and/or numbering of them....
I did the same trade and have 191g vs 197g.
Anyway the point is ... I save worker turns while it costs a bit of gold and get more exploring in return for *spoiler info* and *more spoiler info*
@Bede:
- Do we wait for soul? Do I go?
- City placement=> We abandon old map? Fish was for city5 or 6 I forget. On the river is nice, or maybe (as prev. planed on the hill N-NE of "your spot")
- I like your mines and things, where do I get that?
Regards
And explored (only) 20 more tiles using the Warrior 1, tho i could not get the scout turns right. Something off with the movements and/or numbering of them....
I did the same trade and have 191g vs 197g.
Anyway the point is ... I save worker turns while it costs a bit of gold and get more exploring in return for *spoiler info* and *more spoiler info*
@Bede:
- Do we wait for soul? Do I go?
- City placement=> We abandon old map? Fish was for city5 or 6 I forget. On the river is nice, or maybe (as prev. planed on the hill N-NE of "your spot")
- I like your mines and things, where do I get that?
Regards
namliaM said:
I have no problem waiting for Soul, unless you're talking about a long wait. I can't recall, when did he say he would be available again?
Edit
as quoted from Soul:
Give's us time to discuss.
Edit2 Whoops, Bede already posted the rot.
Here's the thinking:
War will come with Sumeria sooner, rather than later and we will fight it with cats and archers. So, put the next town toward Sumeria but within three tiles of Washington (defensive movement) and on the river, uses a plains tile, using the hill forces a 'duct for growth past six and we want as many of our first ring cities at seven or better as soon and as cheaply as we can do that. The hill location will also have other defensive problems as the incoming Sumerians will have too many hills and mountains for defensive cover.
There is at least one downside, does anybody know what it is?
Here is a revised city location suggestion:
Don't hesitate to comment freely on any of my suggestions.
The American nation is going to be small but powerful until we can deal with the Sumerians. They have all the nice ground on our end of the map and we are going to have to fight for all of it, and without iron.
Superior tactics are the way. That means "Combined Arms", offense, defense and artillery (catapults). Preservation of force and mass will be the means.
Sumeria builds Enk warrriors from the start. They cost 8 shields each (10base*.8). As soon as we lose a battle against them they enter their Golden Age, their productivity increases, so we will face lots of them and very quickly.
My tactical manual says head straight for the strongest city, their capitol, taking archers, cats and no more than a couple of spears in a single massed group. Don't chase strays.
The objective for the war is annihilation of the enemy and protection of the homeland.
Rota:
namliaM - apply your magic if you can before Saturday
soul - on the count for Saturday
Methos - in the wings if the first two don't work out
S'ven - made a great debut
Bede - tried not to screw the pooch
War will come with Sumeria sooner, rather than later and we will fight it with cats and archers. So, put the next town toward Sumeria but within three tiles of Washington (defensive movement) and on the river, uses a plains tile, using the hill forces a 'duct for growth past six and we want as many of our first ring cities at seven or better as soon and as cheaply as we can do that. The hill location will also have other defensive problems as the incoming Sumerians will have too many hills and mountains for defensive cover.
There is at least one downside, does anybody know what it is?
Here is a revised city location suggestion:
Don't hesitate to comment freely on any of my suggestions.
The American nation is going to be small but powerful until we can deal with the Sumerians. They have all the nice ground on our end of the map and we are going to have to fight for all of it, and without iron.
Superior tactics are the way. That means "Combined Arms", offense, defense and artillery (catapults). Preservation of force and mass will be the means.
Sumeria builds Enk warrriors from the start. They cost 8 shields each (10base*.8). As soon as we lose a battle against them they enter their Golden Age, their productivity increases, so we will face lots of them and very quickly.
My tactical manual says head straight for the strongest city, their capitol, taking archers, cats and no more than a couple of spears in a single massed group. Don't chase strays.
The objective for the war is annihilation of the enemy and protection of the homeland.
Rota:
namliaM - apply your magic if you can before Saturday
soul - on the count for Saturday
Methos - in the wings if the first two don't work out
S'ven - made a great debut
Bede - tried not to screw the pooch
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
lurker's comment:
My tactical manual agrees with yours except it says, send a sacrificial warrior out.
My tactical manual agrees with yours except it says, send a sacrificial warrior out.
soul_warrior
Termite!
up and at'em
got a reprieve so im free friday too.
cant see save, but wll tommorow.
will also play friday noonish (GMT) so comments are welcome
got a reprieve so im free friday too.
i guess this is the plan.Master Blaster said:
cant see save, but wll tommorow.
will also play friday noonish (GMT) so comments are welcome
Since Soul is back will he be playing next or namliaM? My own suggestion would be Soul so that way he doesn't miss the first turn through all the players.
namliaM hasn't stated he has it or has started it yet so I see no problem.
Up to you Bede.
namliaM hasn't stated he has it or has started it yet so I see no problem.
Up to you Bede.
namliaM
Deity
Downside(s)?
Near no defence bonus
low growth in particular without irrigation
Lots people, greater unhappiness=> more lux (slider)
Being aggressor => WW= Greater unhappiness => More lux (slider)
Sumeria at the moment is backward vs the others.
We have no spears yet?!
Near no defence bonus
low growth in particular without irrigation
Lots people, greater unhappiness=> more lux (slider)
Being aggressor => WW= Greater unhappiness => More lux (slider)
Sumeria at the moment is backward vs the others.
We have no spears yet?!
soul_warrior
Termite!
im also DOWN with the homies.Bede said:
will play tonight... seems no beer for me tonight.
its Civ Fever season.
4 turnsets i have to do today.
its gonna be a LONG night.
namliaM
Deity
I think we want some spears (soner rather than later)
1) They are needed anyway in our plan of attack
2) if/when the barbies (one tent near, that we know off) get horses, they will be handy to have around.
Edit: Also might be nice to be walking around with elite spears instead of "just" vets... That 1 hp can make a world of difference.
Should we keep them barbs around for promotional opportunities or get the tent for the gold?
Greetz
1) They are needed anyway in our plan of attack
2) if/when the barbies (one tent near, that we know off) get horses, they will be handy to have around.
Edit: Also might be nice to be walking around with elite spears instead of "just" vets... That 1 hp can make a world of difference.
Should we keep them barbs around for promotional opportunities or get the tent for the gold?
Greetz
Always take the gold. The yokeols just get annoying otherwise and the jungels will be a fertile source of camps in the future anyway.
And we do need spears, but not a lot.
One downside on Boston is that it will cause corruption/waste to increase in New York.
And we do need spears, but not a lot.
One downside on Boston is that it will cause corruption/waste to increase in New York.
soul_warrior
Termite!
playing now, so i can play SGOTM uninterupted in the morning.
plan - get that city up, 3 tiles form washington.
get a spear or two, get more archers if i can.
plan - get that city up, 3 tiles form washington.
get a spear or two, get more archers if i can.
soul_warrior
Termite!
TGOMTG - sw, unworthy pupil 1750bc-1500bc
preturn - nada
1- move free worker to start roading towards boston.
2- cloud busting.
3- settler out of WDC. start a spear.
get the gold from the barb hut (stupidly using the E archer, not the Vet one. sorry)
lower lux to 10.
4- in the IBT sumer bbuilds a camp on the ridge. hence forth to be called Heartbreak Ridge
finish that mine out of WDC, so i road it.
5- NY archer > archer. leave it be as it can double as an MP for now.
build Boston and start a rax (due in 20), no real purpose here, but wont grow fast enough for a worker and a reg warrior will not be built on my watch.
worker moved to the Bostonian BG.
6- greeks are building the Oracle. WDC finishes spear > archer
road bostonian BG.
move WDC spear due west to clear way for workgang.
IBT Xerses demands Alpha. as i checked earlier nobody has anything we really want and Xman is dirt poor. we are also not strong to his troops, so i give.
its very hard to teach this old dog new tricks. i think its the third time ive caved to demands. ever.
7-nada, worker reached the west coast and is getting ready to pave Venice Beach.
8- minor mishap in WDC (infact its in a suberb called Watts. something to do with police brutality. but i told them - there IS NO police yet! the people wont listen, and the burn the house down)
mine bostons BG
9- NY archer > archer (but it can squeeze a settler out on growth. no granary there though)
archer sent south to hunt.
10- WDC archer > settler,
move the Venice worker onto the bog to road.
archer finds pray.
post attaching oopsy - its not Bede that saved this but me. atleast i got the date right.
and the barb in the pic is NOT a typo. thats what he is doing
preturn - nada
1- move free worker to start roading towards boston.
2- cloud busting.
3- settler out of WDC. start a spear.
get the gold from the barb hut (stupidly using the E archer, not the Vet one. sorry)
lower lux to 10.
4- in the IBT sumer bbuilds a camp on the ridge. hence forth to be called Heartbreak Ridge
finish that mine out of WDC, so i road it.
5- NY archer > archer. leave it be as it can double as an MP for now.
build Boston and start a rax (due in 20), no real purpose here, but wont grow fast enough for a worker and a reg warrior will not be built on my watch.
worker moved to the Bostonian BG.
6- greeks are building the Oracle. WDC finishes spear > archer
road bostonian BG.
move WDC spear due west to clear way for workgang.
IBT Xerses demands Alpha. as i checked earlier nobody has anything we really want and Xman is dirt poor. we are also not strong to his troops, so i give.
its very hard to teach this old dog new tricks. i think its the third time ive caved to demands. ever.
7-nada, worker reached the west coast and is getting ready to pave Venice Beach.
8- minor mishap in WDC (infact its in a suberb called Watts. something to do with police brutality. but i told them - there IS NO police yet! the people wont listen, and the burn the house down)
mine bostons BG
9- NY archer > archer (but it can squeeze a settler out on growth. no granary there though)
archer sent south to hunt.
10- WDC archer > settler,
move the Venice worker onto the bog to road.
archer finds pray.
post attaching oopsy - its not Bede that saved this but me. atleast i got the date right.
and the barb in the pic is NOT a typo. thats what he is doing
