I sent three archers at Isin at one point but two of them were killed immediately. Not wanting to lose the third one I withdrew. After that disasterous attack I was extremely hesitant to try it again. 
TGOMTG Conquest Class Challenge (C3C)
- Thread starter Bede
- Start date
soul_warrior
Termite!
ahh. i see.
revision A: skip ISIN and go staright for the upper town?
then come back south (at which time more troops will be on hand)?
revision A: skip ISIN and go staright for the upper town?
then come back south (at which time more troops will be on hand)?
namliaM
Deity
Personally i would not build any more Spears for now...
I would switch all Barracks towns to Horsemen
Send the spear from Boston to Atlanta
3 Archers is to few I would take all -non injured- archers from our "home land" meaning
2 from WDC
2 from NY
1 from Atlanta
1 from Lagash
=== Total 6, take these and the spear from Chicago and go for Isin
The horses will finish soon enough and the 3 Archers that are left behind(together with the spears ) can hold their own if they must.
Take the non-injured units near summer meaning 4 vet Archers and 2 Elites
Plus the 3 non-injured Archers from Agade
=== Total 9 (but no spear, that is why we need a few more... no defence) and go for Umma.
Move the injured, but leave the injured that are allready in city's, into Erech to heal, good place to heal and strike at units running out of Ur going to either sumer or Erech
I woiuld "love" to have lookouts on the mountain ranges near Ur, 1 N-NW of Lagash and 1 NE-NE-NE of Agade
SF has a spear and is not yet worthy of a better defence (it is dispencable)
The other 2 are more valuable, tho Philly is protected for now... (it has a warrior but we can see trouble long before it gets there)
Arrakis on the other hand is a bit exposed, but to build spears....
On the building ques: I think Barracks will be in order for Agade and Atlanta after they finish their current builds.
On 'research': Is currency out there? Markets mean more $
On peace with Sums, Would love to get Akshak as well before peace....
On trusting AIs ... I never do any of them....
@Methos: Are you stacking workers (near Agade) to road? You should not do that...
I would switch all Barracks towns to Horsemen
Send the spear from Boston to Atlanta
3 Archers is to few I would take all -non injured- archers from our "home land" meaning
2 from WDC
2 from NY
1 from Atlanta
1 from Lagash
=== Total 6, take these and the spear from Chicago and go for Isin
The horses will finish soon enough and the 3 Archers that are left behind(together with the spears ) can hold their own if they must.
Take the non-injured units near summer meaning 4 vet Archers and 2 Elites
Plus the 3 non-injured Archers from Agade
=== Total 9 (but no spear, that is why we need a few more... no defence) and go for Umma.
Move the injured, but leave the injured that are allready in city's, into Erech to heal, good place to heal and strike at units running out of Ur going to either sumer or Erech
I woiuld "love" to have lookouts on the mountain ranges near Ur, 1 N-NW of Lagash and 1 NE-NE-NE of Agade
SF has a spear and is not yet worthy of a better defence (it is dispencable)
The other 2 are more valuable, tho Philly is protected for now... (it has a warrior but we can see trouble long before it gets there)
Arrakis on the other hand is a bit exposed, but to build spears....
On the building ques: I think Barracks will be in order for Agade and Atlanta after they finish their current builds.
On 'research': Is currency out there? Markets mean more $
On peace with Sums, Would love to get Akshak as well before peace....
On trusting AIs ... I never do any of them....
@Methos: Are you stacking workers (near Agade) to road? You should not do that...
Methos said:I sent three archers at Isin at one point but two of them were killed immediately. Not wanting to lose the third one I withdrew. After that disasterous attack I was extremely hesitant to try it again.
That's why artillery of some form is so useful.
Mailguy said:
Agreed they need the food but we need boats in the water first, then harbors. Not having the other continent mapped is costing us.
I think we can safely strip the core of attacking units to send north against Sumeria. A couple of archers handy, probably to the SE to deal with incoming bogies is all you need along with a couple of spears in each town.
Sending the newly trained horsemen against Isin may be in order while gathering the Ur strike force in either Erech or Lagash.
The workers need to get out of the jungle. It's way too early to be chopping marshland and the like, though we do have enough of it. If you have nothing better to do with them start mining some hills.
K... Erm, guys, sorry, but I feel that I keep on forgetting about this SG, and that you guys should get someone more commited than I am. So I'm just going to resign... I haven't checked this in the past few days, and it was pure luck that I remembered it today.
Sorry you feel you have to leave, but I understand. If you are still interested I have found using the forums 'User Control Panel' and subscribing to certain threads is the best way to keep track of those threads I'm interested in.
First thing I do is re-order the forces so they are gathered together, then swap all the archer builds to horsemen, and the coastal peninsula to boats.
Then after counting heads and technology make the following deals:
Literature from Germany for 201g. Then Literature and 294g to Greece for Construction, then Literature and 273g to Persia for an alliance against Sumeria.
In 110Bc I lose an elite archer to an unfortfied rArcher in the open. But another elite attacks the crippled rArcher and Washington is spawned. Washington hies into Sumer and forms the Minutemen who will become a mounted army. He could have rushed the Forbidden Palace in Sumer but I want an army to finish off Sumeria, who have built at least three wonders and are working on a fourth, the Great Library. The population at Ur has dropped two points, probably from the application of the whip.
In 90 BC move the army out of Sumer and load it with two horse and kill two Sumerian archers, then add a worker to NY so it makes 10spt. The population at Ur has dropped another point. Then Erech deposes back to Sumeria and we lose the garrison.
By 10AD we are in position with a cat, archers and the horseman army to finish Ur, the cat wounds an Enk, three archers kill their targets, the fourth dies, and then the army finishes the job. We now control the Pyramids and the Mausoleum of Marsalos.
In 50AD reorganize the forces around Sumer and bring forward workers to reconnect the horses. Kill a Sumerian archer at Lagash landed from a galley.
Currency is out there owned by the Germans and the Persians but is still way too expensive to buy. A galley was sunk trying to reach the other continent. Getting Kish from Sumeria with the Great Lighthouse is going to be huge for us. Umma with the Colussus will be a nice to have.
Our new holdings:
Then after counting heads and technology make the following deals:
Literature from Germany for 201g. Then Literature and 294g to Greece for Construction, then Literature and 273g to Persia for an alliance against Sumeria.
In 110Bc I lose an elite archer to an unfortfied rArcher in the open. But another elite attacks the crippled rArcher and Washington is spawned. Washington hies into Sumer and forms the Minutemen who will become a mounted army. He could have rushed the Forbidden Palace in Sumer but I want an army to finish off Sumeria, who have built at least three wonders and are working on a fourth, the Great Library. The population at Ur has dropped two points, probably from the application of the whip.
In 90 BC move the army out of Sumer and load it with two horse and kill two Sumerian archers, then add a worker to NY so it makes 10spt. The population at Ur has dropped another point. Then Erech deposes back to Sumeria and we lose the garrison.
By 10AD we are in position with a cat, archers and the horseman army to finish Ur, the cat wounds an Enk, three archers kill their targets, the fourth dies, and then the army finishes the job. We now control the Pyramids and the Mausoleum of Marsalos.
In 50AD reorganize the forces around Sumer and bring forward workers to reconnect the horses. Kill a Sumerian archer at Lagash landed from a galley.
Currency is out there owned by the Germans and the Persians but is still way too expensive to buy. A galley was sunk trying to reach the other continent. Getting Kish from Sumeria with the Great Lighthouse is going to be huge for us. Umma with the Colussus will be a nice to have.
Our new holdings:
soul_warrior
Termite!
one Umma and one Kish coming right up.
we can now built the Epic and soon afterwards the Pentagon, right?
will see what i can do to fix our FP troubles.
nice trades too. were, what? 1 tech from the MA now?
hopefully i can fix that.
plans d'guerre - let the immoratal eat through southern sumer, while i get the prime north.
build loads of horses, and some cats.
keep pushing sumer into submission.
build more boats and suicide them.
BTW - got it.
we can now built the Epic and soon afterwards the Pentagon, right?
will see what i can do to fix our FP troubles.
nice trades too. were, what? 1 tech from the MA now?
hopefully i can fix that.
plans d'guerre - let the immoratal eat through southern sumer, while i get the prime north.
build loads of horses, and some cats.
keep pushing sumer into submission.
build more boats and suicide them.
BTW - got it.
namliaM
Deity
Nice trading... To bad about Erech, tho I probably would not have brought Persia into the war with Sumeria. I think we could have handled them, now we lost controle over "leaving" sumeria stuck in one (useless) jungle town. For Persia will go at those.
Not rushing the FP in Sumer and/or Ur is a good idea at the moment, they are still at fliprisk...
Not rushing the FP in Sumer and/or Ur is a good idea at the moment, they are still at fliprisk...
Bede said:
This way itll keep the southern Sumerian cities off our backs (as well as Persia). Im not worried about losing the southern Sumerian cities as currently they would take way too long to make them productive whereas the northern half of the nation is in excellent condition. Besides, we can always take them back.
Bede said:
Being used to Regent level Im amazed at how easily the cities defect at this level. During my turnset I successfully whipped Sumer down to 1 and built a temple, than wham they defect. Hmm, did the application of the whip raise the chances of defection?
namliaM said:
Originally I believed building the FP in a captured town caused it not to flip but read differently in a separate thread a couple of weeks ago. Definitely want to wait until we have full control.
Soul Warrior said:
Yep! All we need is currency to reach the MA! BTW, which government do we want, Monarchy or Republic? I prefer Republic but if we plan to have many more wars Monarchy might be better?
BTW, according to CAII SF has a 1.8 to 3.4% chance to flip, we may want to whip that temple up ASAP.
As soon as we receive our lands in the north we should build a few settlers to fill out the area too.
soul_warrior
Termite!
TGOMTG SW 50ad-250ad
preturn - as usuall, not much.
1- Boston archer > galley,
move troops toward the Kish area.
kill a sumerian archer.
cant rush the SanFran temple. pray that it wont flip.
workers busy connecting the horses.
2- WDC archer > archer, Lagash cat > worker (on growth), NY archer > archer, Chicago archer > archer,
horses connected so switch ALL archers into HORSES.
almost lose a horse to an archer, but he runs back losing face, but gaining another day.
troops are converging.
IBT - MUNICH BUILDS THE GREAT WALL.
just to check how expensive REP would be i try. 357g + 28gpt. as that would kill us. nope.
3- a spare archer got down south as additional back up.
nothing much else.
IBT - lose a spear and a worker on the horses, due to some serious arrow action.
4- Boston galley > harbour,
kill that archer and grab our worker back.
the Kish taskforce is now 5 archers, 4 cats, 3 horses, 1 spear and one army.
the word is go.
Galley survived the western run. continue due west.
5- WDC horse > horse, NY horse > horse, Atlanta rax > horse,
more moves.
6- NY riots? why? fix it.
Agade worker > worker, Phily harbour > galley,
move on Kish. lose a horse to an archer.
strike next turn.
IBT - our glorious galley meets the pirates. its sunk.
7- Lagash worker > cat, Chicago horse > horse,
see that Sumer has Currency, Rep and Monarchy. as they are willing to give us ALL of them for peace, stop bothering looking for trades. we end our persian alliance in 4. take it then.
Kish - 3 cats hit. it has 4 defenders min.
lose an archer, a horse kills an enk, army kills 2.
8- Ur worker > cat, WDC horse > HEROIC EPIC (in 19),
DAMMMMMMMM - Sumer has flipped.
and is taken back by our horse guarding archer. > temple,
another 3 cats hit.
2 archers kill 2 enk, though no leader luck,
army finished it off.
WE NOW CONTROL THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE
move the army out and put in 2 horses for short term MP duty.
prepare to move up on Umma.
rest a bit for the wounds to heal.
9- NY horse > horse, Arrakis harbour > cat,
babylon want big books.
army is looking on Umma from its mountain top perch. looking good. waits for more troops to arrive.
IBT - un frigid believable, SUMER did it. again
next time its burning time.
10- Boston harbour > galley,
moved a bit.
picture tells all
preturn - as usuall, not much.
1- Boston archer > galley,
move troops toward the Kish area.
kill a sumerian archer.
cant rush the SanFran temple. pray that it wont flip.
workers busy connecting the horses.
2- WDC archer > archer, Lagash cat > worker (on growth), NY archer > archer, Chicago archer > archer,
horses connected so switch ALL archers into HORSES.
almost lose a horse to an archer, but he runs back losing face, but gaining another day.
troops are converging.
IBT - MUNICH BUILDS THE GREAT WALL.
just to check how expensive REP would be i try. 357g + 28gpt. as that would kill us. nope.
3- a spare archer got down south as additional back up.
nothing much else.
IBT - lose a spear and a worker on the horses, due to some serious arrow action.
4- Boston galley > harbour,
kill that archer and grab our worker back.
the Kish taskforce is now 5 archers, 4 cats, 3 horses, 1 spear and one army.
the word is go.
Galley survived the western run. continue due west.
5- WDC horse > horse, NY horse > horse, Atlanta rax > horse,
more moves.
6- NY riots? why? fix it.
Agade worker > worker, Phily harbour > galley,
move on Kish. lose a horse to an archer.
strike next turn.
IBT - our glorious galley meets the pirates. its sunk.
7- Lagash worker > cat, Chicago horse > horse,
see that Sumer has Currency, Rep and Monarchy. as they are willing to give us ALL of them for peace, stop bothering looking for trades. we end our persian alliance in 4. take it then.
Kish - 3 cats hit. it has 4 defenders min.
lose an archer, a horse kills an enk, army kills 2.
8- Ur worker > cat, WDC horse > HEROIC EPIC (in 19),
DAMMMMMMMM - Sumer has flipped.
and is taken back by our horse guarding archer. > temple,
another 3 cats hit.
2 archers kill 2 enk, though no leader luck,
army finished it off.
WE NOW CONTROL THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE
move the army out and put in 2 horses for short term MP duty.
prepare to move up on Umma.
rest a bit for the wounds to heal.
9- NY horse > horse, Arrakis harbour > cat,
babylon want big books.
army is looking on Umma from its mountain top perch. looking good. waits for more troops to arrive.
IBT - un frigid believable, SUMER did it. again
next time its burning time.10- Boston harbour > galley,
moved a bit.
picture tells all
Soul Warrior said:
I had that same problem when WDC rioted and I couldnt figure out why. I check CAII every turn and it never said anything about WDC is about to riot. The only thing I could figure was I had just dismissed an inquiry from Germany for peace though that shouldnt have done it. Were despotic and dont have ww.
About SF: Just checked and we can rush a temple at the cost of two citizens. Itll drop us down to a pop of two but itll help us keep the city from flipping.
About Sumer: To be honest I wouldnt even bother with it for now. Instead move our horse over and block them for the horse resource and well just take Sumer in trade for peace. Out of curiousity how close was Sumer to growing? If it grows to pop two Sumeria may not be willing to trade it.
About Peace: As Soul said we can get Currency, Republic, and Monarchy for peace. They will also give us in addition to the techs Sumer, Isin, and Kissura (though I dont believe Kissura is worth it too far away). The question is do we want peace? If we take the deal well leave Sumeria with nothing but two cities in the north and whatever Persia doesnt take so its not like theyll be a problem. Eventually (in 20 turns) we can go back and finish them off.
We need to watch Ur as it still has two Sumerian citizens. Itll really suck if we lose Ur.
Edit: One reason why I think we may want to settle for peace is in the past 20 turns we have captured and kept two cities and taken/lost Erech once and Sumer three times! It's beginning to drag out and I wonder if we are losing ground in the total pictures. I hate to become too weak compared to everyone else. Just a thought.
Great game Soul! Hopefully we can maintain the Sumerian cities and build up our empire! Once peace is settled do the chances of a captured city flipping decrease?
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
lurker's comment: Culture is the biggest factor in flips, right? If you guys aren't building culture you're gonna get a lot of flips.soul_warrior said:IBT - un frigid believable, SUMER did it. again
MeteorPunch said:
True, but the first time I whipped the citizens to get a temple and than it defected several turns after it was completed. Is there any other way to keep it from flipping until the culture can kick in?
soul_warrior
Termite!
good call on sumer.
i never thought of checking for towns in peace.
but to make sure, take it, abandon!!! and resettle.
i also agree on peace. its been a long bloody (mostly sumerian blod, but still).
time to consolidate for a few turns.
also remember we have bismark to deal with (our peace expires in 2-3 turns)
so why not let sumeria build us some cool towns?
i never thought of checking for towns in peace.
but to make sure, take it, abandon!!! and resettle.
i also agree on peace. its been a long bloody (mostly sumerian blod, but still).
time to consolidate for a few turns.
also remember we have bismark to deal with (our peace expires in 2-3 turns)
so why not let sumeria build us some cool towns?
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
Methos said:
lurker's comment: I meant your overall civs culture, not the cities. I'm sure Sumeria is lapping you guys in that department even though they are almost gone.
MeteorPunch said:
My mistake, I understand now. You're right about Sumeria since I believe four of their cities all had/have a wonder in them. Looks like we might want to start building up some culture, not necessairily for Sumeria (though they may still be a problem) but for all the other AI's around us.
I'd say yes to the peace, it sounds like we need to build up our infrastructure, especially since with the new gov techs we'll be switching to a better gov soon. BTW, will we be going Republic?
I am going to cast the "hawk vote". We want the surviving Sumerian cities in the jungle, not the north. That is ours.
The flipping thing is a direct result of our lack of core culture, not culture in the captured towns. The only way to deal with it is with garrisons and culture at home. The application of the whip has no impact on the cultural conversion rate. The two biggest factors are total national culture and distance from the respective capitols, then comes local culture and garrison size. You can reduce flip risk to zero with a big enough garrison but it is often not worth it when you have a war to fight. Best thing to do is either burn the city or position troops outside and retake it.
So in this case we want Sumeria out of the north before even thinking about peace. That will make the flip risk in the northern area close to nil and it will reduce as the population of furriners goes down.
I think you all are beginning to get a glimmer of why I chose the Americans for this one. Cheap culture is a tremendous crutch.
What I recommend we do next is drive Sumeria into the jungle, then make peace. Our economy is strong enough that we can buy any techs we need.
And indeed a nice bit of warring Mr Warrior. (You have been brevetted Ensign in this army).
The Persian alliance was simply a way of covering our back. Sumeria could have bought Persia in against us and that would have been really painful. This way the Persians are happy, and the southern Sumerian towns are not contributing anything to the war effort in north.
Anyway, I would capture or burn Isin, Sumer and Erech. Definitely keep Umma for the Colussus tourist trade. Once Gil is in the jungle we can consider a peace treaty.
If we are worried about falling behind in infrastructure and culture, we can afford to shift some core towns to those two projects as it looks like we have enough troops to finish the job.
The flipping thing is a direct result of our lack of core culture, not culture in the captured towns. The only way to deal with it is with garrisons and culture at home. The application of the whip has no impact on the cultural conversion rate. The two biggest factors are total national culture and distance from the respective capitols, then comes local culture and garrison size. You can reduce flip risk to zero with a big enough garrison but it is often not worth it when you have a war to fight. Best thing to do is either burn the city or position troops outside and retake it.
So in this case we want Sumeria out of the north before even thinking about peace. That will make the flip risk in the northern area close to nil and it will reduce as the population of furriners goes down.
I think you all are beginning to get a glimmer of why I chose the Americans for this one. Cheap culture is a tremendous crutch.
What I recommend we do next is drive Sumeria into the jungle, then make peace. Our economy is strong enough that we can buy any techs we need.
And indeed a nice bit of warring Mr Warrior. (You have been brevetted Ensign in this army).
The Persian alliance was simply a way of covering our back. Sumeria could have bought Persia in against us and that would have been really painful. This way the Persians are happy, and the southern Sumerian towns are not contributing anything to the war effort in north.
Anyway, I would capture or burn Isin, Sumer and Erech. Definitely keep Umma for the Colussus tourist trade. Once Gil is in the jungle we can consider a peace treaty.
If we are worried about falling behind in infrastructure and culture, we can afford to shift some core towns to those two projects as it looks like we have enough troops to finish the job.
