ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Cameron will be busy tonight.
And you know you have to give the money back, right?
And you know you have to give the money back, right?
TH4 - The Age of Sail - OPEN SG
- Thread starter T-hawk
- Start date
"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women." - Tony in Scarface
Here's how I see it happening -- the truck crashes, I snag enough money to live "comfortably" without having to work anymore (I don't want to be too greedy or anything), then Cameron calls me up and we live happily ever after.
A guy can dream, can't he?
Here's how I see it happening -- the truck crashes, I snag enough money to live "comfortably" without having to work anymore (I don't want to be too greedy or anything), then Cameron calls me up and we live happily ever after.
A guy can dream, can't he?
T-hawk
Transcend
Heh.
Actually... I think I'm gonna take Reagan up on that "anyone else want to play" offer, and get in a turn here myself. Got it, and should be able to play and post back by around 6 PM Eastern.
Actually... I think I'm gonna take Reagan up on that "anyone else want to play" offer, and get in a turn here myself. Got it, and should be able to play and post back by around 6 PM Eastern.
T-hawk
Transcend
Argh, double post.
T-hawk
Transcend
OK, time for me to get a look at my own creation here. 
Wow, I'm surprised we got this far with the islands so fast. We haven't even gotten to Astronomy either; this was all done with the sea-navigation at Engineering and the 4-move caravels. Although I guess "fast" is in relation to the tech pace, not the game date; usually by 1130 AD I'm building infantry.
I think we may as well go up to Military Tradition before shutting off research; we can get Metallurgy in 6 turns.
We've probably got quite some ways to go for domination; remember coastal water tiles count, and there's almost as many of those as there are land tiles on this map.
==========
Inherited turn: Change some build orders to settlers since we'll need to do a lot of filling in for domination (unless we do want to go for conquest?) Change production at home to horsemen for cavalry upgrades.
1140 AD: Tenochtitlan falls; it had three defenders left. Thanks for the great setup, Arathorn.
We trade Chemistry to England for Education and cash. They've got Banking and Astronomy, both monopolies.
Spain declares war on us! They attack and capture Lindum, on the island next door to their homeland. Looks like we've got our next target, although they're in a corner of the world where we have almost no troops.
1150 AD: Tlatelolco falls to four gallic swords and an MDI. We've got more than enough troops on Aztec Isle to finish them off.
Positioning boats to eventually evacuate Aztec Isle in the direction of Spain.
1180 AD: Teotihuacan falls, and capturing the city gives our fast units access to Texcoco. This is the first time I've used Gallics; they are pretty cool, at least once you've already invested that massive build cost. Texcoco also falls; Aztec Isle is ours but the civ is not yet elimintated. Guess they're doing the settler-on-a-boat routine...
Also this turn, our two boats full of troops reach Spain and lands. Also also, two boats full of MDI have reached Japan, on whom we declare war this turn, and two more will arrive in another turn or two.
1190 AD: Metallurgy has come in, and we trade it plus cash to England for Astronomy! Ahh, galleons.
Bigger and faster, although they can't navigate ocean yet.
Heh. The Aztec settler landed on a mountain on an island that we control. Fortunately we have two warriors there, although it'll take a few turns to get any strong units there.
1200 AD: Our offensive at Japan actually fizzles out, with four MDI killing only one spear in Osaka, and then Japanese archers nibble us to death. I pile back onto the boats and retreat until we can get a better force there. AIs tend to build gazillions of units when cramped up on islands; the Japanese cities are going to have 4-5 spears each, and expect a dozen in Kyoto as were in Tenochtitlan.
The Aztecs plop down a city with a different settler next to Knossos, and apparently that counted as a respawn because four units jumped out of the city advancing towards ours. Well, rather than lose our city, I make peace. We can get troops in position and kill them in 20 turns. That also ends our war weariness.
1210 AD: Positioning. Don't ask why Entremont doesn't have a harbor anymore; I screwed up.
1220 AD: We land at Madrid with 11 MDI, one Gallic, and two muskets. I hope it's enough.
1230 AD: Let's count the spears (all regulars) in Madrid. One, two, three - and that's it? I brought a dozen MDIs for that? Well, we now own the Spanish capital.
I pass off in 1230 AD with most of the rest of the units unmoved. Next leader can take the stacks around Agedincium-Monguntiacum Island down to Japan now, or wait to upgrade those horses to cavalry.
I think we should go for conquest rather than domination. It's cleaner; settling in all the little crannies and waiting for temple expansions is a bit of a pain. I was worried about one-square islands, but we own one of them, and we have cities within two squares of two more (both southeast of Spain) so I don't think the AI will settle on them (and it would've by now if it were going to do so.) I can't see any more one-square islands; I don't really recall if there are any more on the map.
Military Tradition is due in 4-5 turns and we can go nuts with cavalry after that. England will have muskets, so we'll want the cavalry to beat that. We should have enough troops at Spain already to finish taking them out.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/th4-1230ad.zip
Wow, I'm surprised we got this far with the islands so fast. We haven't even gotten to Astronomy either; this was all done with the sea-navigation at Engineering and the 4-move caravels. Although I guess "fast" is in relation to the tech pace, not the game date; usually by 1130 AD I'm building infantry.
I think we may as well go up to Military Tradition before shutting off research; we can get Metallurgy in 6 turns.
We've probably got quite some ways to go for domination; remember coastal water tiles count, and there's almost as many of those as there are land tiles on this map.
==========
Inherited turn: Change some build orders to settlers since we'll need to do a lot of filling in for domination (unless we do want to go for conquest?) Change production at home to horsemen for cavalry upgrades.
1140 AD: Tenochtitlan falls; it had three defenders left. Thanks for the great setup, Arathorn.
We trade Chemistry to England for Education and cash. They've got Banking and Astronomy, both monopolies.
Spain declares war on us! They attack and capture Lindum, on the island next door to their homeland. Looks like we've got our next target, although they're in a corner of the world where we have almost no troops.
1150 AD: Tlatelolco falls to four gallic swords and an MDI. We've got more than enough troops on Aztec Isle to finish them off.
Positioning boats to eventually evacuate Aztec Isle in the direction of Spain.
1180 AD: Teotihuacan falls, and capturing the city gives our fast units access to Texcoco. This is the first time I've used Gallics; they are pretty cool, at least once you've already invested that massive build cost.
Texcoco also falls; Aztec Isle is ours but the civ is not yet elimintated. Guess they're doing the settler-on-a-boat routine...Also this turn, our two boats full of troops reach Spain and lands. Also also, two boats full of MDI have reached Japan, on whom we declare war this turn, and two more will arrive in another turn or two.
1190 AD: Metallurgy has come in, and we trade it plus cash to England for Astronomy! Ahh, galleons.
Bigger and faster, although they can't navigate ocean yet.Heh. The Aztec settler landed on a mountain on an island that we control. Fortunately we have two warriors there, although it'll take a few turns to get any strong units there.
1200 AD: Our offensive at Japan actually fizzles out, with four MDI killing only one spear in Osaka, and then Japanese archers nibble us to death. I pile back onto the boats and retreat until we can get a better force there. AIs tend to build gazillions of units when cramped up on islands; the Japanese cities are going to have 4-5 spears each, and expect a dozen in Kyoto as were in Tenochtitlan.
The Aztecs plop down a city with a different settler next to Knossos, and apparently that counted as a respawn because four units jumped out of the city advancing towards ours. Well, rather than lose our city, I make peace. We can get troops in position and kill them in 20 turns. That also ends our war weariness.
1210 AD: Positioning. Don't ask why Entremont doesn't have a harbor anymore; I screwed up.
1220 AD: We land at Madrid with 11 MDI, one Gallic, and two muskets. I hope it's enough.
1230 AD: Let's count the spears (all regulars) in Madrid. One, two, three - and that's it? I brought a dozen MDIs for that? Well, we now own the Spanish capital.
I pass off in 1230 AD with most of the rest of the units unmoved. Next leader can take the stacks around Agedincium-Monguntiacum Island down to Japan now, or wait to upgrade those horses to cavalry.
I think we should go for conquest rather than domination. It's cleaner; settling in all the little crannies and waiting for temple expansions is a bit of a pain. I was worried about one-square islands, but we own one of them, and we have cities within two squares of two more (both southeast of Spain) so I don't think the AI will settle on them (and it would've by now if it were going to do so.) I can't see any more one-square islands; I don't really recall if there are any more on the map.
Military Tradition is due in 4-5 turns and we can go nuts with cavalry after that. England will have muskets, so we'll want the cavalry to beat that. We should have enough troops at Spain already to finish taking them out.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/th4-1230ad.zip
Summary:
Izzie's dead.
Japan's next.
Lizzie beware.
Great leader.
I left movement on some loaded boats and the troops on the Japanese mainland. We have a great leader, who is on a boat bound for our mainland. He can either rush an army (which we might need to knock out muskets in size-12 cities) or a cav (in a city with a barracks, please). If we had more time left in the game, he might be useful for Mag's.
We're now at war with England and have eight turns of peace left with the Aztecs. Japan should fall on the next player's turn and the game shouldn't last much longer. I think we could achieve domination quicker than conquest, but it's close. Have fun!
the save
Izzie's dead.
Japan's next.
Lizzie beware.
Great leader.
I left movement on some loaded boats and the troops on the Japanese mainland. We have a great leader, who is on a boat bound for our mainland. He can either rush an army (which we might need to knock out muskets in size-12 cities) or a cav (in a city with a barracks, please). If we had more time left in the game, he might be useful for Mag's.
We're now at war with England and have eight turns of peace left with the Aztecs. Japan should fall on the next player's turn and the game shouldn't last much longer. I think we could achieve domination quicker than conquest, but it's close. Have fun!
the save
1290 - Wake some of our troops and take out the japanese warrior on the hills of gold. Other than that, nothing much.
1295 - Not much.
1300 - We raze Edo (?).
1305 - We raze Kyoto and Tokyo, destroying the Japanese. IBT, the English begin Bach's and Magellan's
1310 - We raze an English city, capture York (along with the Great Wall), and raze Hastings.
1315 - Rush Cop's Observatory in Entremont. We raze Warwick.
1325 - Not much. Troop positioning.
1330 - We declare war on the Aztecs. We raze London and Leo's workshop and Nottingham.
1335 - We capture Canterbury and Sun Tzu's, Norwich. Unfortunately, we were 1 hp short of destroying the Aztecs this turn.
1340 - We destroy the Aztecs. I decide to play until 1350 AD to even out the turns...
1345 - We get a GL attacking Coventry. We capture Coventry and the Sistine Chapel, raze Newcastle. We get another GL attacking Oxford. The English have only 2 cities left.
1350 - We capture Oxford. Since the English are down to only one city, and it can be taken next turn, I don't see a reason to pass the game off...
1355 - We capture Leeds and destroy the English.
Our final score was 5598 (England had the next highest at 909).
Here is the final save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/TH4AOS1355AD.zip
Thanks for designing this scenario/map T-hawk. Thanks to everyone else for playing. It was too bad there wasn't more interest...
(although, I think there were a number of reasons for the low interest (the game coincided with the end of school for many people, the beginning of summer, several people moving, etc.))
JMB
1295 - Not much.
1300 - We raze Edo (?).
1305 - We raze Kyoto and Tokyo, destroying the Japanese. IBT, the English begin Bach's and Magellan's
1310 - We raze an English city, capture York (along with the Great Wall), and raze Hastings.
1315 - Rush Cop's Observatory in Entremont. We raze Warwick.
1325 - Not much. Troop positioning.
1330 - We declare war on the Aztecs. We raze London and Leo's workshop and Nottingham.
1335 - We capture Canterbury and Sun Tzu's, Norwich. Unfortunately, we were 1 hp short of destroying the Aztecs this turn.
1340 - We destroy the Aztecs. I decide to play until 1350 AD to even out the turns...
1345 - We get a GL attacking Coventry. We capture Coventry and the Sistine Chapel, raze Newcastle. We get another GL attacking Oxford. The English have only 2 cities left.
1350 - We capture Oxford. Since the English are down to only one city, and it can be taken next turn, I don't see a reason to pass the game off...
1355 - We capture Leeds and destroy the English.
Our final score was 5598 (England had the next highest at 909).
Here is the final save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/TH4AOS1355AD.zip
Thanks for designing this scenario/map T-hawk. Thanks to everyone else for playing. It was too bad there wasn't more interest...
(although, I think there were a number of reasons for the low interest (the game coincided with the end of school for many people, the beginning of summer, several people moving, etc.))JMB
T-hawk
Transcend
Great! Glad to finally see this thing reach a conclusion. Thanks to you too, JMB, for playing us through some of those spots of low interest as well as Grimjack and Reagan and to everyone else who played. [dance]
What did we learn, if anything? Well, the AIs are pretty bad at beelining for mapmaking and expanding out to islands, and absolutely horrible at making those islands productive via rushed harbors and a well-placed FP, but I guess we already knew all of that.
Managing all the sailboats was fun, although did get a bit tedious near the end (although what conquest victory doesn't?) Another lesson learned is to keep open SGs small and easy to jump into; Arathorn commented on that aspect when he played.
By the way, there was at least one island that we never found (I intentionally didn't go to it on my turn). In the far southeastern corner of the map, there's a rock with some coal and I think some gems. But we didn't need it.
Thanks to you too, JMB, for playing us through some of those spots of low interest as well as Grimjack and Reagan and to everyone else who played. [dance]What did we learn, if anything? Well, the AIs are pretty bad at beelining for mapmaking and expanding out to islands, and absolutely horrible at making those islands productive via rushed harbors and a well-placed FP, but I guess we already knew all of that.
Managing all the sailboats was fun, although did get a bit tedious near the end (although what conquest victory doesn't?) Another lesson learned is to keep open SGs small and easy to jump into; Arathorn commented on that aspect when he played.
By the way, there was at least one island that we never found (I intentionally didn't go to it on my turn). In the far southeastern corner of the map, there's a rock with some coal and I think some gems. But we didn't need it.
Thanks for putting this together, T-hawk. I liked the concept.
The one-tile islands could have come more into play had the game gone in a different direction.
I'm probably going to be more inclined to play an open SG this summer than to participate in any that are structured. Hopefully we can have one or more of those this summer. So, put your thinking cap on and try to outdo yourself yet again! It probably won't be all that creative (certainly not like yours are), but I might even jump in and create a game.
The one-tile islands could have come more into play had the game gone in a different direction.
I'm probably going to be more inclined to play an open SG this summer than to participate in any that are structured. Hopefully we can have one or more of those this summer. So, put your thinking cap on and try to outdo yourself yet again! It probably won't be all that creative (certainly not like yours are), but I might even jump in and create a game.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Great game all who played.
I kept downloading this but could never complete my turns in 24 hours. The large map with islands everywhere was very disorienting. I'm so impressed with players that could quickly get a handle on where everything was and where it was going.
I look forward to an Open that I can grab and play in a 24h period. Keep up the good work THawk! (Think small map/panagea or continents )
I kept downloading this but could never complete my turns in 24 hours. The large map with islands everywhere was very disorienting. I'm so impressed with players that could quickly get a handle on where everything was and where it was going.
I look forward to an Open that I can grab and play in a 24h period. Keep up the good work THawk! (Think small map/panagea or continents
)
T-hawk
Transcend
I don't think anyone would've objected if you took past 24 hours to play, given that we were playing a turn every three days or so for a while. Maybe I should've stated to allow more time to play, once we expanded out to all the islands and things started taking more time.
I'm so impressed with players that could quickly get a handle on where everything was and where it was going.
You think so? I, at least, had several "What in the world is this boatload doing" moments - even late in the turn after I'd been moving them around for several years
Maybe I should've stated to allow more time to play, once we expanded out to all the islands and things started taking more time.I'm so impressed with players that could quickly get a handle on where everything was and where it was going.
You think so? I, at least, had several "What in the world is this boatload doing" moments - even late in the turn after I'd been moving them around for several years
You're not alone in that, T-hawk. I had one settler on a boat that must've made 3 U-turns, at least, in the middle of my turns. He was hopelessly confused. And full boats vs. empty boats. And where to send them. Oy. Fun, loads of fun, but confusing. Even after my turn, I didn't have a handle on where stuff was and where it was going and why. Made it feel very real. A game crying for extended goto's, if I ever saw one.
Might have to try a solo game with a similar set-up, though, just to see how it goes. Would have to get a friend to make the map, though.
Arathorn
Might have to try a solo game with a similar set-up, though, just to see how it goes. Would have to get a friend to make the map, though.
Arathorn
I too often had the exact same problem... Part of it might have been that there was little discussion about our overall goal (or at least, I rarely knew where we were going until the end of the game...), but I think the biggest reason was that there were just so many little islands and it was just difficult to plan something and accomplish it within 10 turns (It might have been easier if the overall turns were longer, that way, one person would have the game long enough to actually set up a gameplan for thier reign and perhaps outline a goal or two for the next player...)
JMB
JMB
Naming conventions would help, there. With most 'pelago maps, you can name the significant landmasses (our island, Persian island, Big Island, East Island, West Island, Western France, etc....) and then discuss minor sub-islands off the side (e.g. just east of West Island). With this one, there were SO MANY islands, it was hard to keep track. I find the concept very cool but the execution a bit....problematic. I know I want to send this settler to this point, but how do I communicate that?
My lack of familiarity with the Celtic city names didn't help at all. Knowing which city is where, approximately, can lead to better directions. A similar set-up, on deity, with a fixed rotation, would probably see better communication arise. Maybe even some kind of agreed-on goto conditionality.
Oh well. The team still way out-performed the AI. My guess is corruption management, settlers on ships and blind exploration are tough to code but not as bad to do. The AI will probably always perform even more poorly than a human when things get tough/confusing.
Arathorn
My lack of familiarity with the Celtic city names didn't help at all. Knowing which city is where, approximately, can lead to better directions. A similar set-up, on deity, with a fixed rotation, would probably see better communication arise. Maybe even some kind of agreed-on goto conditionality.
Oh well. The team still way out-performed the AI. My guess is corruption management, settlers on ships and blind exploration are tough to code but not as bad to do. The AI will probably always perform even more poorly than a human when things get tough/confusing.
Arathorn
