The 2 gig wall from 32 bit games & Civ 6

[civvver]

For reference here are the original specs for vanilla Civ5 (from the retail box)

Minimum: Windows XP/Vista/7 DX 9 ; Core 2 Duo 1.8 ghz or AMD Athlon X2 64 2.0 ghz; 2GB RAM; 8 GB HDD. Graphics:256 MB ATI HD2600 XT or better, 256 MB nVidia 7900 GS or better, or Core i3 or better integrated graphics

Recommended: Windows XP/Vista/7 DX 11 1.8 Ghz Quad Core CPU; 4GB RAM; 8GB HDD.
512MB ATi 4800 series or 512 MB nVidia 9800 series

Back to Civ6
I have a GTX 970 so i should be ok for DX12 support right?

civ5 was the game that pushed me over the edge and made me build a new pc. I had an athalon x2 dual core at 1.8 ghz, and overclocked to something like 2.2. Barely above min but hey still min. And I had a 256mb card and 2gb of ram. And I couldn't play civ5. Like at all. Not on min settings, just couldn't play it at all.

And even now on recommended, what a joke, is anyone playing with a pc that bad? It's gotta crawl.

 

[joncnunn]

civ5 was the game that pushed me over the edge and made me build a new pc. I had an athalon x2 dual core at 1.8 ghz, and overclocked to something like 2.2. Barely above min but hey still min. And I had a 256mb card and 2gb of ram. And I couldn't play civ5. Like at all. Not on min settings, just couldn't play it at all.

And even now on recommended, what a joke, is anyone playing with a pc that bad? It's gotta crawl.

That minimum line back then required using the DX9 shortcut rather than the DX11 one (and having set the graphic settings to minimum.)

It's known that Beyond Earth abolished the DX9 option. Here were the Beyond Earth specs:

Civilization: Beyond Earth System Requirements

​Minimum:
OS: Windows Vista SP2/Windows 7
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8 GHz or AMD Athlon X2 64 2.0 GHz
Memory: 2 GB Ram
Graphics: 256 MB ATI HD3650 or better, 256 MB nVidia 8800 GT or better, or Intel HD 3000 or better integrated graphics
DirectX: Version 11
Hard Drive Drive: 8 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
Additional Notes: Other Requirements: Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++2012 Runtime Libraries and Microsoft DirectX.

Recommended:
OS: Windows Vista SP2/Windows 7
Processor: 1.8 GHz Quad Core CPU
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: AMD HD5000 series or better (or ATI R9 series for Mantle support), nVidia GT400 series or better, or Intel IvyBridge or better integrated graphics
DirectX: Version 11
Hard Drive: 8 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card

 

[stealth_nsk]

Some more thoughts to gather.

1. Even new engine uses a lot of libraries. We can't tell for sure whether all of them work well in 64 bit.

2. Being 32-bit doesn't mean the game can't use more than 2GB of memory. It means 1 process can't have more than 2GB addressable space. Using cacheable files, spawning child processes, etc. allows to overcome the limitation if needed.

3. Huge map in Civ5 is 128x80, which is 10240 tiles. Even if the game uses 1Kb of data (basic terrain id, terrain feature id, improvement id, road status, up to 3 units with ids, owner, health, experience, something else), that's roughly 10Mb of data. Of course, there's a lot of other info to be stored in the memory, but I wouldn't say it's the limit.

 

[Larsenex]

Civ 5 cannot be played for mid game and beyond on a HUGE map with 17+ civs. Its because of that wall that we cannot play.

The game NEEDs to be 64 bit if you want a HUGE map with many civs and a long game. Otherwise its going to be small to medium maps only.

 

[dexters]

Some more thoughts to gather.

1. Even new engine uses a lot of libraries. We can't tell for sure whether all of them work well in 64 bit.

2. Being 32-bit doesn't mean the game can't use more than 2GB of memory. It means 1 process can't have more than 2GB addressable space. Using cacheable files, spawning child processes, etc. allows to overcome the limitation if needed.

3. Huge map in Civ5 is 128x80, which is 10240 tiles. Even if the game uses 1Kb of data (basic terrain id, terrain feature id, improvement id, road status, up to 3 units with ids, owner, health, experience, something else), that's roughly 10Mb of data. Of course, there's a lot of other info to be stored in the memory, but I wouldn't say it's the limit.

You make good points. The thread I quoted had a poster who quoted Sirian so I cosidered it better than random speculation. It's possible Sirian was wrong about hexes.

 

[Larsenex]

Over on Reddit there is a combined info thread that says its confirmed that Civ 6 is both Multi threaded for the Ai AND is 64 bit!!

Now I just want to confirm this...

 

[Nikolai II]

Over on Reddit there is a combined info thread that says its confirmed that Civ 6 is both Multi threaded for the Ai AND is 64 bit!!

Now I just want to confirm this...

Last time I checked that thread, it was full of "confirmed" with no cite... One can only hope though.

 

[toft]

-----

 

[CaptainUnknown]

No source = worth nothing

https://youtu.be/K0RGfYAiuR8?t=26m11s

Marbozir asked when he was at his press event (Answer given was that game is 64 bit).

 

[Larsenex]

Ok there ya go. Thanks CaptainUnknown!

 

[historix69]

3. Huge map in Civ5 is 128x80, which is 10240 tiles. Even if the game uses 1Kb of data (basic terrain id, terrain feature id, improvement id, road status, up to 3 units with ids, owner, health, experience, something else), that's roughly 10Mb of data. Of course, there's a lot of other info to be stored in the memory, but I wouldn't say it's the limit.

Civ5 graphics are much more detailed than those of Civ 1-4.

It is imaginable - in order to avoid uniform looking tiles - that each map tile is generated individually with individual 3D data and texture ... so each mountain, river, coastline, forest, etc. really looks individual but also uses a lot more memory when loaded ...

Tiles usually may also contain improvements and units (consisting of multiple persons, animals or vehicles) ... and everything on a tile is usually animated ...

All this might add up to some hundred MBs or more (in late game) just for the map which have to be stored in memory (RAM and/or Video Card) to avoid delay when scrolling the map.

(I remember the massive problems of vanilla Civ5 when scrolling a huge map on my new PC in 2010 (Win7 64bit, 8 GB, 2GB video memory).)

 

[Haig]

Maybe someone could make a new thread with the title CIV 6 is 64bit - confirmed! so it would end speculation.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Maybe someone could make a new thread with the title CIV 6 is 64bit - confirmed! so it would end speculation.

We continue discussion for fun. There are still 32-bit games released out there.

Civ5 graphics are much more detailed than those of Civ 1-4.

It is imaginable - in order to avoid uniform looking tiles - that each map tile is generated individually with individual 3D data and texture ... so each mountain, river, coastline, forest, etc. really looks individual but also uses a lot more memory when loaded ... )

You need to store in-memory models and textures for each object type only once if game engine done right. The rest is handled by graphic memory, which is not addressed directly.

 

[AriochIV]

The game has been confirmed as being 64 bit. It has?

Marbozir asked them specifically and they said it will be available as 64 bit. This is not a particularly big deal, since modern compilers can easily produce both 32 and 64-bit executables.

I'd like to clarify that this does NOT mean that it will be 64-bit only. That would be absurd, as a large percentage of even those on Win10 are still using 32-bit. So folks assuming that this 64-bit news means anything about the game features may be getting ahead of themselves. They can't do anything that isn't 32-bit compatible.

 

[MadDjinn]

Marbozir asked them specifically and they said it will be available as 64 bit. This is not a particularly big deal, since modern compilers can easily produce both 32 and 64-bit executables.

I'd like to clarify that this does NOT mean that it will be 64-bit only. That would be absurd, as a large percentage of even those on Win10 are still using 32-bit. So folks assuming that this 64-bit news means anything about the game features may be getting ahead of themselves. They can't do anything that isn't 32-bit compatible.

Actual stats show 64 bit CPUs dominating the market. 64bit OSs also are edging out 32 bit OSs (weirdly on a 64 bit CPU) by a fair bit as well.

So it's just better to suggest an upgrade rather than assume 32 bit still.

But yes, nothing has been clarified other than there will be a 64 bit version. Not that it's the only version, or that there's an option or limitation on the code for a 32 bit version.

 

[AriochIV]

So it's just better to suggest an upgrade rather than assume 32 bit still.

Asking a mainstream audience to change their operating system just to play a game like Civilization seems... implausible.

For the record, I'm on 64-bit Win10.

 

[rastak]

Asking a mainstream audience to change their operating system just to play a game like Civilization seems... implausible.

For the record, I'm on 64-bit Win10.

Someone recently showed some steam stats that showed 64 bit OS as far outpacing 32.

I don't have a link.

 

[AriochIV]

Someone recently showed some steam stats that showed 64 bit OS as far outpacing 32.

I believe it and I'm glad to hear it. But even if the 32-bit base is as low as 25% (which I doubt), that's HUGE number of customers to be cutting yourself off from.

 

[MadDjinn]

Asking a mainstream audience to change their operating system just to play a game like Civilization seems... implausible.

For the record, I'm on 64-bit Win10.

Cost vs revenue ratio

Won't get people who refuse to go to 64 bit, or worse actually have a 32 bit CPU and OS that couldn't run the game even if there was a 32 bit version.

Vs

Spending a lot of the budget to make the game work on 32 bit OSs as well as 64 bit OSs.


Not saying which way they could come down on that (both are plausible) but one makes a lot more sense than the other.

 

[dexters]

Cost vs revenue ratio

Won't get people who refuse to go to 64 bit, or worse actually have a 32 bit CPU and OS that couldn't run the game even if there was a 32 bit version.

Vs

Spending a lot of the budget to make the game work on 32 bit OSs as well as 64 bit OSs.


Not saying which way they could come down on that (both are plausible) but one makes a lot more sense than the other.

Also future proofing. Sales in October will be to hard core players who sometimes time their hardware upgrades to major releases like civ.

This game and expansions will be on steam sales for years and I would bet a vast majority of its sales will come after the launch quarter. For those users the benefit of back supporting 32-bit may be limited. There will always be luddites of course but they've successfully launched 64bit products already.

People probably also overstate the wide appeal of Civ. The majority if sales to soft fans and casual players will be in the future. Day 1 people want 64bit