Err, do you mean the modular construction idea? Or a literal space ship?
The way I see this one working out is that the hero is assembled much like how a civilization's spaceship is assembled in the main game, modularly. In fact what might be cool is that one could decide on different parts to use. Do you want a sword arm? Or bolt-throwing launcher instead? Are you going to invest in those sturdy legs, or go for the quick model? Depending on what parts you use, you can get very different results.
Who knows? Maybe you can scavange the map for especially powerful pieces of the original, whom others will value as important sources of mithril.
I believe that we can have the best of both worlds.
edit: maybe other RoK civs could could try to assemble their own, and conflicts between them could arise from for the juicy original bits! Thoughts of haphazardly constructed golems wailing on each other, struggling to rip the original components from each others frames fill my mind.
Infernal:
AI only, immensly powerful.
Hero: Hyborem
Kraz-Te-Kahn:
Dwarves Driven from the underhome by the corrupting influence of hell down into thier hidden caverns.
Leader: ?
Braduk Alliance:
Ragged Alliance of the Orcs and the Bannor Remnant, who have put thier differences behind them to work for a common end.
Leader: Brigid the Shining
Hero:
Illians:
Auric still seeks godhood
Leader: Auric Ulvin
Hero:
Elven Courts:
With the Death of Faeryl Viconia and Arendel Phaedra, and the Institution of Thessa as a queen acceptable to both courts, the elves live in an uneasy peace.
Leader: Thessa
Hero:
Alliance of the Free People:
As Hell spread over the plains of the Hippus, Rhoanna sought the help of the Pirate King Falamar in transporting her people to a place they could live free from the Infernal. They settled on a string of islands in the sea, and live happily and peacefully together.
Leader: Falmarson.
Hero: Grigori Adventurer Mechanic
The Repentant:
Sheim survivors that realise now that their previous leaders - those that knew that they were trying to destroy creation - betrayed them, and that they now have a debt to the World. They have turned away from the use of planar gates and pyre zombies, but they do bring their expertise in matters Arcane with them. they have also absordbed some of the former Elohim Empire.
Leader: Bar Duros
Hero:
Keelyn's Playground:
Demons have always loved Keelyn, her pets secreting her away from the main infernal attack on Jubilee. she took refuge out, far away from the infernal lands, and lives with her group of demon freinds, ready to retake her land.
Leader: Keelyn
Hero: Giggles
Laroth's Dominion:
Sidar that have become ghouls or spectres and are ruled by Laroth, having left the Underworld after gaining control of the Death sphere by destroying the God of Death. The Sidar now devour the souls of their victims, which join the armies of Laroth.
Leader: laroth
Hero:
Remnants of Patria:
In ages past the Sidar would have been revolted by the necromantic art they now parcticed. Now they saw it necessary. With the help of the Overlord of the Amurites, Dain,believed that hope and survival lay in the past, the land of Patria. Led by Laroth, who was granted life by Arwan as terms of a truce, the Remnants of Patria seek to revive the 21 mages of Patria and find Kylorin.
Leader: Laroth
Hero:
The Caravan:
On the road towards an uncertain future, an incredible sight it is, the Caravan. Combining knowledge and experience, the group that makes the Caravan is not a large force but it is elusive, unpredictable and constantly learning and improving. The courage of the Grigori Dragonslayers, the experience of the Bannor Paladins, the Malakims knowledge of the land, the covert tactics of the Svartalfar Assassins and the undeniable presence of an Angel. In combat, moving like a school of fish in perfect harmony - leadership changed naturally, depending on the challenge and the enviroment.
Leader: Shifts
Hero: An angel (I presume)
The Crimson Guild:
Calibim/Dovellio with a emphasis on slavery and slightly more arcane than physical vampires. The two cultures mixing to make a type of bandit kingdom.
Leader:
Hero:
Kuriotates:
How about bringing back the Kuriotites(sp) but instead of that snot nosed little boy. Let the Dragon be the actual leader and the head of the Cult of the Dragon. They already represent an eclectic mix of different races, yet now more than ever they need each other to survive. Instead of wanting peace and big cities they are secretly preparing for a final battle with Hyborem.
Leader: Eurabaties(sp)
Hero: Eurabaties(sp)
The Arcane swords:
a combination of Amurites (personal bias, they just have to be there), Sidar and Grigori. Basicly a civilization of stealthy warrior mages.
Amurites struggle for being powerful mages bent on research of the arcane. Sidar focus on combined power and non-interference and fight the undead. And Grigori focus on individual interest for the benefit of the whole...
This lore of theirs seems very close to each other to me.
Leader:
Hero:
The Possessed: (Comment by Giga-Gigan I think we need an obvious vassal civ.)
basically: Arcane mageocracy very similar to amurites except that spell casters use twisted forms of their magic, and instead of humans, deamons and possessed (mortals enslaved in their own minds, with a deamon in the front seat) make up the core of the population. leader would be a deamonic minor leader like Duke Sallos or such. would obviously be allied to hyborem.
Leader: Duke Sallos
Hero:
The Escapees:
with the coming of the deamon hordes and subsequent possessing of their civilisation, some amurite fled before the onslaught, and having witnessed first hand what the deamons could do with their magic they vowed to never again use the wicked craft. thus turning their substantial powers to acomplish the exact opposite of their life long dream. The Escapees focus strongly on anti-magic and anti-deamon, with magic UUs that have 'spells' that negate other spells and such. in addition to the amurite refugees we could incorporate Sidar refugees who escaped from Laroths undead enslavement and renounced their immortality. these would be strongly anti-undead.
Leader:
Hero:
The Horsemen (of The Apocalypse):
Basically, when the demons came calling some of the Hippus tribes decided to join Hyborem instead of perishing, betraying their own kind. The Horsemen now serve in hyborem's armies.
Mechanically, similiar to the Hippus but starting with a nightmare from the palace instead of a horse resource. Fits the theme of the Hippus always doing whatever is in their best interest.
Leader:
Hero:
Grigori:
(Comment by Giga-Gigan) What I gather from the post is that the civ without the aid of Cassiel, decends into an anti-religious force.
Leader:
Hero:
Luchuip: (definitely needs a new name in my opinion)
What I'm picturing is a Luichurp Empire led by a neutral Baranxes. And an empire made up exclusively of golems. Who knows the politics of what is essentially a mechanized empire? I imagine a rather ruthless society who cares more about meeting quotas and expanding then fighting the Infernal.
Leader: Barnaxus
Hero: The Mithril Golem
Here are some materials, that I had made/gathered when interesting ideas started to appear in the thread... They dont necessarily include some of the fractions that were added later on, they rather focus on the corruption/redemption of the cannon civilisations. Maybe some of those ideas can get implemented.
One personal note: In a certain way, its getting too expanded. Maybe the acceptance of new ideas could be stopped, before the first version gets optimized...
Kraz-Te-Kahn: Dwarves Driven from the underhome by the corrupting influence of hell down into thier hidden caverns..
Old Civs: Khazad, Luchuirp
Background/alignment: The dwarves, still revering the earth, still remain a sturdy folk. They are now planning to launch an armed offensive in order, with the help of Kilmorph, to regain control of their realm.
Leaders: Kandros Firs son (neutral) (industrial, ingenuity, financial)
Gameplay: Still a strong production bias, they are using Golems as siege engines, and since being focused on religion, they are training their disciple line, focusing on dwarven druids. Strong melee line. Neglect on arcane line still valid.
Braduk Alliance: Ragged Alliance of the Orcs and the Bannor Remnant, who have put thier differences behind them to work for a common end.
Old Civs: Bannor, Clan of Embers
Background/alignment: Part of the orcs now under the influence of Brigid, they are no longer the bloodthirsty animals they were, but are now trying to rebuild their society in the ways it was before the fall of Bhaal. Peace with the Bannor is uneasy though, for everyone is waiting to see if they can prove themselves when fighting side by side
Leaders: Sabathiel, Brigid the Shining
Gameplay: Strong melee lines. Orcs are now imunne (resistant?) to fire damage by the demons. Orcish units can go enraged without being turned barbarian...
Illians: Auric still seeks godhood
Old Civs: Illians
Background/alignment: Background icy, alignment sub-zero
Leaders: Auric
Gameplay: Same old Illians
Elven Courts - Gryalfar : With the Death of Faeryl Viconia and Arendel Phaedra, and the Institution of Thessa as a queen acceptable to both courts, the elves live in an uneasy peace.
The elves united seem fine, though Id much rather have them unite under a neutral/evil leader, than a good one.
Lore-wise:Seeing the nature been tainted so much and combined with Esus' distrust, they would plan on exterminating all the other races as to never have anyone call the demons again. Also a quest to purify the nature (from their point of view, it was not tainted only by the demons, but by everyone). Very fanatical. Also, Leaves of Esus sounds more interesting and brings a bigger resemblance between them.
Old Civs:Ljosalfar and Svartalfar (currently calling themselves Gryalfar – dawn elves)
Background/alignment: After their civil war ended upruptly, after all their leaders have been assasinated by the infernals, they faced a decade without any leadership after a period of constant war. They have now been united by the union of Viconias daughter, a druidess and Amelanchiers son. Under the Daughters leadership, they seek to bring back the beautiful forests saying that nature will eventually heal herself, however under the Sons leadership, they now want to eradicate the infernals for what they have done to them and all other non-elves who have helped call them into creation and tainted the forests. Alignment: Neutral-Evil
Leaders: Viconias daughter (neutral)-Spiritual, Expansive; Amelanchiers son (evil) Aggresive, Organized
Gameplay: Only Elven promotion allows access to Subdue Beast, extra attack and defence in forests; Focus on recon line and disciple line
Alliance of the Free People: As Hell spread over the plains of the Hippus, Rhoanna sought the Help of the Pirate King Falamar in transporting her people to a place they could live free from the Infernal. They settled on a string of islands in the sea, and live happily and peacefuly together.
The Alliance of Free People could also contain remnants of the Kuriotates - Lamia could go well with free Lanun (imagine Falamar charming half naked wizard women ) and the centaurs should do well with the Hippus
Old Civs: Lanun under Falamar, Hippus, Kuriotates
Background/alignment: At first they fled the first wave of attacks, but slowly they are now realizing, that it is only a question of time when the infernals start chasing after them. With the Lamia on their side, the Lanun are trying to wake Danalin
Leaders: Falamar, Rohanna, Captain of the High Centaur Guard
Gameplay: Strong (+1str, +1 move) ships able to withstand the new threats of the bloodocean. Strong mounted (horselord) and water/arcane line
The Repentant: Sheaim survivors that realise now that their previous leaders - those that knew that they were trying to destroy creation - betrayed them, and that they now have a debt to the World. They have turned away from the use of planar gates and pyre zombies, but they do bring their expertise in matters Arcane with them. they have also absordbed some of the former Elohim Empire.
Old Civs: Elohim, minor Sheaim, Calabim under new leader
Background/alignment: The Elohim are as usuall, trying to reduce the pain the world has to suffer. Some of the Sheaim have turned their backs on Os Gabella and Tebryn, now that they see what their race was really up to. They are using their knowledge of summoning to bring back the other dragons and help fight the summoned deamons. The Calabim minor fraction is trying to repent themselves in the eyes of Lugus, and are hoping to help turn as many Calabim as possible, to their cause.
Leaders: Ethne the White (good), Calabim female (good) creative,
Gameplay: Counter-summoning Arcane; trying to summon Drakes and the divine Dragons. Weak mounted and archer lines. Drakes are beast recons. Vampires gain 3 (more?) exp when defeating beasts of the tainted forests.
Keelyn's Playground: Demons have always loved Keelyn, her pets secreting her away from the main infernal attack on Jubilee. she took refuge out, far away from the infernal lands, and lives with her group of demon friends, ready to retake her land. Hero: Giggles
Old Civs: Balseraph, minor infernal(?)
Background/alignment: Keelyn just wants to play on her playground, and creation is such a better playground than hell (evil) as such she is doing good out of necessity
Leaders: Keelyn (summoner, creative) evil
Gameplay: Balseraphs with a small portion of demonic summons
The Crimson Guild:
Once mighty, the vampires who ruled the Kingdom of Calibim had one true weakness. Their entire society was based upon the ideal of a constant food supply. They tried to drive back the infernals, but too late. Their food supply dwindled, as the Calibim peasantry choked on the ashses of their cursed crop lands. Soon it wasn't just demons, but civil war as vampire's battled over ever more scarce resources. Some say Alexis and Flauros fled, others that they were slain by the demons. And some say their own subjects tore them limb from limb in a blood hungry rage.
No one thought much, few missed them. But rumours began to circulate. Caravans, towns, sometimes whole villages were taken by mysterious raiders. Slavers they said, who left none but the fallen defenders behind, stripped of their belongings, and sometimes half eaten. Strangely, they seemed to mostly attack at night. Only in the last ten years did the perpetrators make themselves known. The surviving vampires had united under a new leader, forming one last clan.
It was an acceptable arrangement, untill they completed their real goal. Finding some arcane path to push back the hell creep, so that they food supply could flourish once again.
Old Civs: Calabim, Doviello
Background/alignment: Their new leader realized he needed the humans for more than just cattle. And so instead of Alexi's iron grip, the Crimson Guild was a loose knit confederation that relied on a class system. Made up mostly of the survivng vampires, and the Dovelio. The Vampires sat at the top, but their loyal human companions could hold high rank. Making the bulk of the millitary and goverment. A vicious raider people, that preyed on others. Temporarily allying with the strong while enslaving anyone who couldn't defend themselves.
The Dovelio gained a measure of social structure from the Calibim refugees. Powerful captains that made their pack all the more deadly. The Calibim gained loyal subjects that didn't care what happened to the people they took captive. So the vampires ate them.. well the pack would do the same thing when food was scarce. For respect and guidance, the Dovellio would glady throw themselves at their foes.
Leaders: Flauros (evil)
Gameplay: Regular Calabim and Doviello upgrades (makes it a choice for the player to either gain strong Doviello, or even stronger Vampires, who are however hard to feed, due to lack of huge cities in the Tundras)
Mercurians:
Howabout a mechanic, that when you resurrect Basium, it turns out that he has been tainted by Hyborem, or some other minor infernal leader, and he becomes a schizophrenic angel/demon.
And let this event spawn Basiums twin sister Gyra, who effectively replaces him and lets you play for the mercurians again, instead of having to build the mercurian gate. Also some adjustments, since she is the angel of death under Arawn
Old Civs: Mercurians, Bannor
Background/alignment: Gyra has entered creation, in order to bring her brother Basium home.
Leaders: Gyra (expansive, charismatic, raiders) good
Gameplay: regular Mercurians
Arcane Blades - Lamnae Magi: combination of Amurites, Sidar and Grigori. Basicly a civilization of stealthy warrior mages.
Amurites struggle for being powerful mages bent on research of the arcane. Sidar focus on combined power and non-interference and fight the undead. And Grigori focus on individual interest for the benefit of the whole...
Old Civs: Amurites, Sidar, Grigori
Background/alignment: The remnants of the Amurites, Sidar and Grigori have formed a new fraction and are trying a new tactics. They now only allow their most powerful units to wage war in the battlefields, as all remaining life needs to be protected. This however lead to lots of deaths among the youngling, who are trying too hard to prove themselves ready to protect their nation.
Leaders: Amurite female - Kerya Nylombe (arcane, spiritual) neutral , Grigori female – Herkja Kizue (defender, charismatic) neutral
Gameplay: The high death rate of trainees reflects in the high production costs for new units (double price?). Their units however gain one of the following bonuses when built (heroic strenght, heroic defence, low chance of hero promotion)
Blacksea
Old Civs: Lanun under Hannah
Background/alignment: After being tricked into attacking Falamar, Hannah thought him dead by her hand and has become insane. As such she perfectly fell into the trap set up by the overlords. Currently beyond redemption, she seeks to kill everything that dares to enter her watery realm.
Leaders: Hannah the Insane (Evil) Insane
Gameplay: Not playable
The Caravan:
On the road towards an uncertain future, an incredible sight it is, the Caravan. Combining knowledge and experience, the group that makes the Caravan is not a large force but it is elusive, unpredictable and constantly learning and improving. The courage of the Grigori Dragonslayers, the experience of the Bannor Paladins, the Malakims knowledge of the land, the covert tactics of the Svartalfar Assassins and the undeniable presence of an Angel. In combat, moving like a school of fish in perfect harmony - leadership changed naturally, depending on the challenge and the enviroment.
Basicly a good barbarian fraction...
I don't like any of those civs really. I think a lot of the more recent suggestions are far better, and more appropriate to the situation.
I especially dislike the redemption theme. The whole, entire theme of FFH revolves around things falling. Things going from good to evil. Why would this change just because of Armageddon? Why would these people forget and forgive their age-long emnities?
EDIT: Eh, I'll comment anyway
On the redemption theme, people very often seek redemption/put aside differences when faced with their own destruction. It make sense, the jolt knocks sense into people. Or at least fear.
Actually this kinda falls away from the civ design topic, but I was kinda wondering what tweaks and changes were going to be made in order to represent the harder life style that people would encounter in the Age of Despair. I can think of a few things...
A post-Armageddon map script, with scarcer yet clustered resources, and poorer quality yields in general. This could hopefully promote conflict.
Modifiers could be changed so people hate each other more often than not.
As for alignments, evil could be better suited to subsistence in hell terrain, good receiving more anti-daemon units and or promotions, and neutral could provide little in and of itself thereby promoting black and white extremes. Which of course promotes conflict.
I feel that war should be the mainstay and people should be accustomed to it, war wariness should be dramatically reduced or non existent. Maybe except between good civs and between infernal vassals war should be the default stance until a certain tech is reached.
All-in-all though what I really hope is that this mod will feel like a new incarnation, not just Fall from Heaven 2 with a hellish coat of paint.
EDIT: Eh, I'll comment anyway
On the redemption theme, people very often seek redemption/put aside differences when faced with their own destruction. It make sense, the jolt knocks sense into people. Or at least fear.
With the sheaim-Elohim thing, who exactly from sheaim society are there? If it's just the common people then there's nothing specifically sheaim about them, they would just be the same as any other humans, just maybe a bit strange in terms of culture. Therefore although it could be mentioned in passing, the sheaim addition to the Elohim people would not really have much effect in terms of game play. If it's the mages and cultists you are proposing have migrated, why? These people knew full well what they were getting into when they sold their souls, they're now surely bound to the will of their demon lord?
Personally, I think the ELohim should have become corrupt. Their very purpose was to protect the holy places of Erebus, and they have failed in their purpose. Seeing the inevitability of Entropy they would probably have turned aside from their worship of Sirona, the weak God that has allowed Agares to come to power by insisting that he can be restored. If the Elohim had survived, they would not be happy bunnies.
With the sheaim-Elohim thing, who exactly from sheaim society are there? If it's just the common people then there's nothing specifically sheaim about them, they would just be the same as any other humans, just maybe a bit strange in terms of culture. Therefore although it could be mentioned in passing, the sheaim addition to the Elohim people would not really have much effect in terms of game play. If it's the mages and cultists you are proposing have migrated, why? These people knew full well what they were getting into when they sold their souls, they're now surely bound to the will of their demon lord?
Personally, I think the ELohim should have become corrupt. Their very purpose was to protect the holy places of Erebus, and they have failed in their purpose. Seeing the inevitability of Entropy they would probably have turned aside from their worship of Sirona, the weak God that has allowed Agares to come to power by insisting that he can be restored. If the Elohim had survived, they would not be happy bunnies.
Sheaim:
As mentioned elsewhere in the forums, only a handfull of the Sheaim leaders are aware of their ultimate goal being the destruction of the world. The general public is does not know of this...
Elohim: Noone said they would remain fully the same as before the armageddon. But they ARE tolerant, and from the flavour side, their goal is the preservation of the world. Since it has become a much more difficult task, they use any help they can get.
My original idea behind the cooperation of the minor sheaim fraction with the major elohim was the fight between the Reverend Mothers and the Honored Matre from Frank Herberts Dune series. In the book, the Reverend mothers who were of lesser numbers, managed to assimilate (although using subtlety) the uncontrollable Honored Matre in sight of a new common enemy who threatened to destroy all humanity...
Edit:
Due to the large destruction of the world, I had imagined, that most of the civilizations would be reduced to separate communities, lone fortresses defending against the demon hordes. More focus was put on the individual/collective rather than civilization level of society. As such, this gives greater opportunity for redemption. The whole aim of the modmod was "how much resourcefull can a man get" and how desperate he is in getting it.
E.g. the "good vampires": I imagined them more like a victim of sadistic games of Flauros/Alexis. Not really for mass production, gameplaywise it would use the same mechanic that the Children of Kyrolin were made in Age of Ice... special great people...
Just wondering that whether as time stretches out, and if the Infernals are pegged back, whether there could be a mechanic added where the use of magic becomes shunned by the general populace? In - in a, "well okay we needed it to combat Daemons, but it was meddling around with magick that got us into trouble in the first place."
- Perhaps may need a modifier if the leader is Arcane / Summoner (presuming these societies would be more magic tolerant)
This could mean the player could be faced with the prospect that the tools he/she has built to combat the Infernals steadily become unpopular within the civ...
Would possibly mean the need for additional later game mechanical/religious weapons that could be used against the Infernals
My first ideas were focused on a mechanic, where a unit first needed to defeat an enemy unit in order to receive a temporary promotion, that would allow it to receive exp from combat. Otherwise, the units would receive free exp using the same mechanic the priests get it.
The aim was to avoid the exp inflation that FFH has. In some cases i received 6exp from defeating a regular opponent, which in some cases was game breaking. As soon as my unit got to level 6 and had combat I-V plus more, it was basicly indestructible. When defending, he stopped all other units from geting exp and lead to a few powerful units...
Another mechanic was meant to be the use of city ruins all over the world, where you count build any settlers, but you would have to use them to rebuild the ruins using the old Law 2 spell "restore city". Problem was that if Age of Despair was to be a mod, you couldnt hand pick spots for the cities as the game would place them randomly.
2 solutions came into my mind. Either you would need to be one spot away from a ruin to rebuild a city in the spot you are (possibly hard to implement), or you would be able to salvage the city ruins into a "supplies-like" unit and build the city where you'd like (possibly using a mechanic similar to rebuilding barnaxus mechanic). This would lure the player into exploring new territories looking for the resources necesary to expand. Simply limiting the number of cities by the amount of hammers you could produce didnt seem attractive enough for an environment like the the world after the apocalypse...
The ruins of canon cities could also be implemented as unique features, that would provide mana without the need of mana nodes.
I have however no idea on how easy or difficult it would be to implement any of these. They would however make the game more different than Vanilla FFH...
Ideas?
An idea occurs. we could make the 21 capitals (excluding those who are direct descendants of former civs) into ruins that are "tapable" for the mana the former civ represented (ala Brajuk the Burning for fire mana, Innsmouth for water, ectra), and make other undedicated nodes into either entrophy or fire mana. The reason for this is two fold; it would help represent the warped balance of Erebus into hell, and it would help make mana rarer, and strategically important.
An idea occurs. we could make the 21 capitals (excluding those who are direct descendants of former civs) into ruins that are "tapable" for the mana the former civ represented (ala Brajuk the Burning for fire mana, Innsmouth for water, ectra), and make other undedicated nodes into either entrophy or fire mana. The reason for this is two fold; it would help represent the warped balance of Erebus into hell, and it would help make mana rarer, and strategically important.
I like this idea a lot, but there is one tiny problem. What are we going to do about 3 mana types that aren't in the game? Kwythellar, for example, represents the creation mana which we can't add because it simply refuses to exist. But maybe Thomas.beruberg has something in his mind...
theoretically, if we went with that idea, then we could base our mod on Fall Further. but that would mean redoing alot... (which i don't mind, in the interest of a good mod)
what do people think. I'm completly unnopposed to this idea.
Well, cities such as Dis would not have been destroyed. Migdar would probably not still be around when they came, as the same for the city of Kwyethellar. But possibly Grottiberg may not have been destroyed when the Infernals took over
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
