The Ancient Mediterranean MOD (TAM)

Originally posted by Sodak
First, how about calling the Gauls the Gael? Gaul is a latin word. Small detail... As for the Greeks, does anybody contributing know enough about Dorian, Ionian, et al, to warrant having them separate civs?

How about Hittites or Assyrians? Both were quite important in the eastern mediterranean.

Whatever the final form, it looks to be an excellent mod! :goodjob:

Edit: O yeah, resource idea: MARBLE, olives (+figs, dates, very important foods)

Well, acutally "Gaul" isn't latin either but French/English. In Latin it's "Gallia". "Gael" is a good idea, but the only problem is that the city names are in Latin, too... Can you give the "original" names?

Ad Hominem already stated that the Ionians weren't a really important player in history.

The Assyrians and the Babylonians shouldn't be there at the same time, because they lived in the same area. And why create a new civ when you have one in the original game? ;)

Hittites were important, yes, but except for Hattussah I don't know any other city name, or leader name...

Olives... Yes, good idea. I don't have any picture, though, but I could make one. Harlan made a marble resource, I think? I'll check on that.
 
Dacia

--Leader: Decebalus


--Capital: Sarmizegetusa

--Cities:
Sarmizegetusa
Barbosi
Breaza
Pecica
Cugir
Piscul Crasanilor
Popesti
Stancesti
Cetateni
Capalna
Batca Doamnei
Zimnicea
Poiana
Patridava
Petrodava
Ziridava
Singidava
Piroboridava
Tamaridava
Dokidava
Porolissum
Apulum
Potaissa
Germisara
Azizis
Berzovia
Acidava
Napoca
Drobeta
Dierna
Sucidava

--Leaders:
Burebista
Deceneu
Dicomes
Dapyx
Zyraxes
Roles
Cotiso

--UU:
Apparently they were good riders, but I couldn't find any more info.

Info on Dacia
 
Here is a link to the Ancient Macedon mod I whipped a while ago - here.

It's got city names/leaders/etc. The only thing is I stuck to keeping Alexander the Great as their leader (which I feel is their unalienable right - the Greeks don't deserve him!!!). If you'd like, Philip II is a worthy candidate for the Macedonian leader, but I say go with Alexander the Great - the REAL leader of Macedon. (not greece!!!)
 
You shouldn't discount civilizations just cos you don't know much about them. The Arabs of the ancient world were quite different than the Arabs of Mohammed's day. The century just before Mohammed saw the conquest and near total destruction of this civilization (after a long decline), the great cities abandoned.

But prior to that destruction, Southern Arabia was the wealthiest part of the world, according to Herodotus. The largest city, Marib, had a peak of about 30,000 people, which made it one of the biggest cities of the time (the Alexander era, the one I know most about). They even had buildings up to 8 stories high! There were numerous cities there, and vast irrigation networks, catching water from the very high (and forested!) mountains. Queen Bliqis, the Queen of Sheba, would make a great leader.

You probably think more of the Arabs of the north, Mecca and Medina and all that. Even they did much better than in Mohammed's day, profiting from the trade passing through. A second Arabian power center developed around the city of Petra in the north (also to later crash with the decline of the trade routes).

Here's some stuff I grabbed off the web. I'll do the same for Lydians later (who by the way were nowhere near the Persians, you must be thinking of something else).


Sheba, region, Arabian Peninsula
  
biblical name of a region, also known as Saba, of S Arabia, including present-day Yemen and the Hadhramaut. Its inhabitants were called Sabeans. According to some passages in Genesis and First Chronicles, Sheba (the Hebrew spelling of Saba), a grandson of Noah’s grandson Joktan, was the ancestor of the Sabeans. According to other passages in those books, however, Sheba was a descendant of Abraham. The Semitic colonization of Ethiopia was established (10th cent. B.C.) from Sheba. In that century the biblical queen of Sheba (called in Muslim tradition Bilqis) made her famous visit to Solomon. Situated along the trade route from India to Africa, Sheba was known as a region of great wealth. Trade between Israel and Sheba is mentioned in First Kings. Elements of Sheba’s culture, which was at its height between the 9th and 5th cent. B.C., is evidenced by the dam (since collapsed) near Marib, the capital of Sheba, and by the many inscriptions found there. Written in Himyaritic, a Semitic language, the inscribed characters derive from Phoenician writing. Ethiopia conquered (c.525) Sheba. In 572, Sheba became a Persian province and, with the rise of Muhammad, fell under Islamic control and lost its separate identity.

The most prominent and celebrated figure of Yemen’s ancient history is the legendary Queen of Sheba (named Bilqis in the Arabic Tradition) , who visited King Solomon during the 10th century B.C. bringing with her a large retinue and an abundance of gold and spices . Challenging Solomon with riddles, she eventually had to capitulate to his wisdom and accept his God . This exotic story has sparked the imagination of countless generations and has found entry into three Holy Books: the Bible, the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast and the Holy Koran. Prehistoric tools and settlements have been found in various places in Yemen. Archaeologists recently discovered that irrigation in the Marib oasis dates back at least 5 millennia . The ancient South Arabian Kingdoms which started out as theocracies, all developed in the mouths of large wadis between the mountains and the great desert .

The kingdom of Saba with its capital at Marib was the most powerful, at times dominating all of the South Arabia . The great Marib Dam, built to harness and exploit the seasonal floods by means of an elaborate irrigation system , provided sustenance for some 30,000 inhabitants and was counted among the wonders of the ancient world. The Sabaeans were not only great builders and technicians, but also successful traders . The Greeks and Romans called the southern part of the peninsula "Arabia Felix", glorified by the fabulous wealth enjoyed by its inhabitants. Since the domestication of the camel (around 1500 B.C.) large Sabaean caravans moved north along the edge of the desert , covering in 60 - 70 days the distance from Qana on the Indian ocean to Ghaza on the Mediterranean sea. The trade route, which was protected by the kingdoms along the way, became famous as the "Gold and Incense Road". Incense was an item of high prestige, burnt in large quantities in the temples of the Mediterranean civilizations. It grows naturally only in the lower Hadhramaut.  

Among the luxury goods supplied by Sabaean merchants were spices, ebony, silk, fine textiles from India, rare woods, feathers, animal skins, and gold from East Africa. To secure their trade monopoly , the Sabaeans kept the origin of their riches a secret. At the end of the second century A.D., a new power emerged in south Arabia : the Himyarites . They eventually conquered Saba and established their rule over all Yemen . But the first centuries A.D. were a time of great changes in the world, that eventually also led to the downfall of the ancient South Arabian civilization . The trade monopoly was broken when the Romans started to deal with India directly via the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean. The overland route declined , and social and religious structures began to disintegrate. Negligence caused the final destruction of the great Marib Dam in 570 A.D. which, according to Arab traditions , caused thousands of Yemenis to emigrate to the north and establish new Arabic countries. Judaism and Christianity spread among the people, and the old celestial gods lost their power . Eventually, Yemen became deeply involved in the Persian-Byzantine power struggle . In 530 A.D. a joint Himyarite and Persian army cooperated to free Yemen from Ethiopian colonists. The Persians remained in power until the arrival of Islam in 628 A.D.

Here are some pictures:

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2007/landmark.html
 
Exsanguination

Get a grip to reality, will ya? Or are you one of those who believe that Alexander is of... slavic origin? Historical evidence has proved beyond any doubt that the Macedonian higher classes were purely of Greek ancestry (Dorian/Doric) and the population under them if not of Greek origin (as were most) was later hellenized.

Plus Alexander conquered the world under the banner (and he was quite proud of it) of the Greek civilization.

So, what's your problem? The rivalry between southern and northern Greeks? If you know anything about history, you should know that the Greeks kept fighting each other much more than they did against others.
 
Harlan,

you are right about discrediting nations, but it's impossible to include anything I don't know about. ;)

Thanks for the info, now I also have a new Wonder: Marib Dam.

I think it is possible to include more than 16 CIVs, I'll find out how. Provide me with data. Having the Queen of Saba in CIV3 would be really cool! :)

One problem: Jemen is not on the map that I made. But I could put them in the southeasternmost point of the map (which is a little east of Mecca) and give them tons of Oases.
 
Here's some scoop from off the web on the Lydians.

LYDIA

Lydia was situated in the Western part of Asia Minor, on the river Galis, with its main city Sardis. It was first mentioned by Homer already in the 8th century B.C. under the name Maeonia. It was celebrated for fertile soil, rich deposits of gold and silver. Lydia became most powerful under the dynasty of the Mermnadae, beginning about 685 BC. In the 6th century BC Lydian conquests transformed the kingdom into an empire. Under the rule of King Croesus, Lydia attained its greatest splendor. The empire came to an end, however, when the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great captured Sardis about 546 BC and incorporated Lydia into the Persian Empire. After the defeat of Persia by Alexander III, king of Macedonia, Lydia was brought under Greek - Macedonian control. Soon after that, Lydians were assimilated by Greeks, Greek language and Greek culture, and though Strabo in the 1st century A.D. talks about Lydians as an ethnos, they did not have much of their original language at that moment.

CROESUS

The expression "as rich as Croesus" comes from the legendary wealth of the king who reigned from 560 to 546 BC over Lydia in western Asia Minor. Gold from the mines and from the sands of the River Pactolus filled his coffers to overflowing. The Lydians in the time of Croesus, it is believed, were the first people to coin money.

The fame of the splendid court of Croesus at Sardis attracted many visitors. One of these, according to a legend, was Solon, the lawgiver of the Greeks. The king proudly displayed his treasures and asked Solon who was the happiest man that he had met. Solon named two or three obscure men who had lived and died happily. Croesus was surprised and angry and said: "Man of Athens, dost thou count my happiness as nothing?" "In truth," replied Solon, "I count no man happy until his death, for no man can know what the gods may have in store for him."

There was indeed great misfortune in store for Croesus. Cyrus the Great of Persia, extending his vast domains, was soon threatening the kingdom of Lydia. Croesus consulted the oracle of Delphi in Greece. The oracle replied: "If Croesus goes to war he will destroy a great empire." So Croesus went out to meet the army of Cyrus and was utterly defeated, he destroyed his own great empire.

The old story goes on to relate that Cyrus ordered Croesus to be burned alive. When Croesus saw the flames creeping upward to consume him, he remembered the words of the wise Solon and cried out, "O Solon! Solon! Solon!" Supposedly Cyrus was so moved by the story of how Solon had warned the proud king that he ordered Croesus to be released. Cyrus asked to Croesus why he shouted Solon's name, and Croesus asked him another question "what your soldiers are doing now?", showing the persian soldiers taking all the treasures and destroying everything; Cyrus replied "They are plundering your city"; then Croesus said "They are not plundering my city, it's your city now and your soldiers are destroying your city". After that short conversation Cyrus the Great stopped his soldiers.

----

Here you can read about the founding of the Etruscan civilization by the Lydians (the current general theory is that Lydians came and mixed with the local population, forming a hybrid group):

http://members.tripod.com/~Centime/Etruscans/history.html

Lots of other good Etruscan info there.

Here is some stuff on the theory that the legend of Atlantis was an early Lydian city. Probably the least exotic/ sexy Atlantis theory, so it doesn't get much attention. But it seems the most probable to me. Regardless, the text you can read here gives a good idea of how early Lydia existed, even though only bits and pieces of history can be found about it:

http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/james/

Someone else mentioned Ionia as a possible Greek civ. Lydia was basically the same area as Ionia, and many Greek cities, such as Ephesus, where probably founded by the Lydians and later Hellanized.
 
By the way,
Regarding the problem of Yemen not being on the map - easy - make a new map! :) The map thumbnail in the Ancient Med map thread has a loooooot of problems. Obviously hand drawn. You should use LookANinja's program and have a map graphic converted into Civ3 format, so you know everything is accurate. At the same time, you could have some more of Persia, and put the Persians where they belong.

Just did a check - the map you posted in Troqulet's Ancient Med Mod thread is pretty much exactly the kind of map you need. Lots more of Persia in that one. Except you should tilt it, so that you get more of Arabia, and less of the Sahara and Russia areas (the northeast and southwest corners). Then you'd really have a great map!

As an aside, how did you make that map so wide? I thought maps had to be as wide as they were tall.
 
Here's an example of a better map angle I was talking about in the previous post. This took me just a couple minutes to whip up, I'm sure with a little more work one could maximize the important areas better.

With LookANinja's program, you could get the very below image converted into a Civ3 map in an hour or two.

 
Sorry for the stretch... :p

Harlan:

You're funny... hand drawn! This is a 100% accurate conversion from a map, done by a program that was posted on Apolyton. The map is as wide as high, 140x140. I know it seems to be different. That's because civ3 maps are in a 3d-view.

I didn't make the map larger because I wanted the -in my opinion- most important parts of the ancient med to be large enough to look good. Italy and Greece are a real problem when the map is too small / the covered area too large!

Since this is not a scenario, but a mod, it's no problem to include several maps! I changed the civ3mod.bic, the rules are not in the map file... That's what I was aiming for: different maps with different civs! Thus we could make several maps with different foci. On huge one going up to Persia, the one I made concentrating on the Roman Empire, and one of Greece to Persia to replay the Persian wars or the Trojan Wars!

Also, we should include all civs that we can think of - more than 16. In each map we can allow / disallow the correct civs for the map and therefore have a really huge and good mod! We could even make different maps in different time periods (for those who want historical accuracy) that have different civs! :D

I attached the map it was converted from:
 

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Dacians: Civilopedia Entry


#RACE_Dacians
^The Dacians or Getae were a people that lived in the Carpathian-Danube territory of modern Romania. The Greeks often thought of them of northern Tracians, but the political history, the archeological findings and especially the little that we know of the two languages, prove that the Thracians and the Dacians are two distinct peoples, well individualized, that spoke two different Indo-Europeans languages, and that were only related to one another.
^Herodotus was the first to note the Dacians. When the persian Darius I tried to attack the Scythians he crossed the Bosporous with a vast army and continued north. The Dacians tried to stop him but were defeated easily. Later the Greeks founded colonies at the coast of the Black Sea (ca. 700 BC) and had contact to the Dacians.
^Dromihetes was the first king of all Dacia. When the Macedonians attackt Dacia in 300 BC Agatocles, son of Lisimah, the leader of the Macedonians was captured. After Dromihetes treated the prisoner nicely, gave him gifts and sent him back to his father, peace was restored. Dromihetes even married a daughter of Lisimah.
^In 82 BC Burebista became king of the Dacians. In several campaigns he captured northern Greek cities, which resulted in more wealth for Dacia. He also fought the Celts back who tried to invade Dacia.
^After Burebista's death Dacia split into several kingdoms. In the 1st century AD Dacia slowly adapts the Roman culture. The Romans expanded very close to the Dacian borders.
#DESC_RACE_Dacians
^
^
^In 87 AD Diurpaneus (Decebalus) fought the Romans at Tapae. He wins the battle and totally destroys the Roman legion. The war machines are captured. After the battle Decebalus ("The Powerful One") became king of all Dacia. One year later, there is another battle at Tapae, but this time victory is on the Romans. There are peace negotiations which result in a peaceful compromise. Trajan becomes emperor and Decebalus violates the peace of 89. After several years of planning the Roman armies leave in March 101 AD. They cross the Danube and besiege Dacia. Rome defeats the Dacians, and in 102 there is peace again - this time on bad terms for the Dacians. Between 102 and 105 AD both Trajan and Decebalus prepare for another war. In 105 AD Roman legions cross the Danube and victoriously fight the Dacians. In 106 AD all Dacian resistance is defeated. Now Dacia was a Roman province - the only province "on the other side" of the Danube.


Any suggestions?
 
Okay, I added Dacia (see above) and Macedonia (with the data from Exsanguination's MOD). Both with Civliopedia entries.

Now we need:

-Lykians (everything) (Harlan?)
-Arabs (everything) (Harlan?)
-Minoans (pedia text for civ -done- and for UU) (Ad Hominem?)
-Dacia (UU) (Harlan?)
-Macedonia (UU pedia text)
-Coracle pedia text (What is a Coracle, anyway?)
-Goth city names (hard, they didn't build much, only on the Krim penninsula)
-Iberia (UU, pedia texts, leaders, more cities)
-Huns (cities, pedia text)
-Gallia (UU, pedia texts)
-Scythians (UU, pedia texts)
-Carthage (pedia texts, more cities)
-Welsh (UU, pedia texts)

We could replace the Welsh with a more general term for the British Celts... Ideas? Were the "Britons" a tribe?

Also, we need animations for the Leader heads. IMHO we don't need an animation, a static picture is fine.

I will do the new government types soon.
 
Thamis: I think you're doing the Phoenicians great injustice by saying that the Carthagenians were more important historically than they. Good thing they were peaceful merchants, or they would for sure have risen from their graves and whooped you for it ;)

Other than that, this looks like it will be a great mod, I'm looking forward to finding the time to play it soon. :goodjob:

Some more Carthagenian (pah!:p ) city names (just to give myself the impression I am helping out as much as I would like to)

Carteia
Mainake
Sexi (I'm not kidding - hope this doesn't get bleeped out)
Abdera
Lixus
Hippo Regius
Hadrumentum
Sabrata
Soleis
Motya
Tharros
Sulcis
Nora
Mago
Palma
Ebusus

Incidentally, they would all pass as Phoenician city names as well if the need should arise ;)
 
Thamis, first of all, your mod is really great! Probably the best mod arround here! I like to play especially the Troians and the Carthagenians.

Some remarks and ideas: I found a small bug around 230 BC: The program terminated without any obvious reason. I used the Savegame-Editor to analyse the problem: The Welsh tried to build the Broadswordman, but the directory of this unit including all the files were named Broadswordsman. Renaming the files and there content solved the problem.

I think it would be a good idea to convert the map into a flat map. This should be no problem with the MultiTool.

I like the TechTree very much. I was annoyed by the late appearance of naval units and the tech necessary for exchanging world and territory maps at first, but this perfectly reflects the isolated development of the ancient civ. I hope the in-game TechTree and the civilopedia texts will be done soon.

Is there any way to restrict the computer players from settling all over the dessert? Playing the Carthagenians, I faced Egypt surrounding my territory by settling all of the sahara ... I read something about creating a new terrain type (Sand or something), which basically is a renamed jungle terrain. The settler are given a wheeled flag, so they are prohibited to enter the "sand" square.

I would like to see some kind of "wood" ressource. Many parts of the mediterranean were deforested in ancient times, for example Tunesia, Croatia or the Lebanon. The huge fleets of roman times were the reason for this. I think you should make the wood ressource a prerequisite for building naval units.

Is it possible to change the color of the Carthagenians? Grey is no good contrast to the mini map terrain ...
Thamis, continue your good work!
 
Here is the civilopedia entry for the minoan civ. Enjoy.


To find the roots of the Minoan civilization we'd have to travel through the mist of the late Neolithic era. The first inhabitants of the island of Crete seem to have arrived there during the 6th millennium BC. There is no clear evidence where they came from. Asia Minor looks like a good candidate, but it's not the only one.

The new inhabitants of Crete had already the knowledge of cultivating the soil and kept domesticated animals. They also knew how to make fine pottery. They also travelled to the nearby Cyclades islands in seek for obsidian, which they used to create tools and statuettes.

The Neolithic civilization was followed by the bronze age civilization, which is actually what we call today "Minoan civilization". This civilization lasted over 1500 years, from 2600-1100 BC, and reached the height of its prosperity in the 18th - 16th centuries.

Very little was known about Minoan Crete before the great excavations of Greek and foreign archaeologists that began about 1900, and the discovery of the palaces of Knossos and Phaestos, with their astonishing architecture and wonderful finds.

Its history had passed into the realm of legend and remained a distant memory in Greek tradition and mythology.

The ancient authors speak mainly of Minos, the king who had his capital at Knossos, and was a wise lawgiver, a fair judge (who therefore judged souls in Hades after his death, along with Rhadamanthys and Aiakos) and a great sea - dominator. Homer calls him "..companion of mighty Zeus..", and Thucydides informs us that he was the first man to hold sway over the Aegean with his fleet, and that he captured and colonized the Cyclades, driving out the Carians, and freeing the seas from piracy.

Plato speaks of the heavy tribute that the inhabitants of Attica were compelled to pay to Minos - the historical basis of the myth of Theseus can easily be recognized - and Aristotle attributes his thalassocracy to the geographical position of Crete.

This position was, in fact, particularly favorable, both for the Minoan domination of the sea, and for the growth and development of their wonderful civilization. It was the crossroads linking three continents, and the racial elements and cultural strands of Asia, Africa and Europe met and mingled here to produce a new way of life, a new philosophy of the world and an exceptionally fine art that still strikes one today with its freshness, charm, variety, and mobility

The mixture of racial elements in Crete is demonstrated by the different skull - types discovered in the excavations there.

In general terms, however, the Minoans form part of the so - called "Mediterranean type", they were of medium height and had black curly hair and brown eyes.

Their language is not known, for the written texts have not yet been deciphered, but it appears to have belonged to a separate category of the Mediterranean languages.

After 1450 BC when the Achaeans had established themselves in Crete, a very archaic form of Greek was used as the official language and gained some dissemination. This is the language that may be read in the Linear B texts that are already deciphered.
Homer was aware that the inhabitants of Crete were divided into a number of tribes, and mentions the names of five of them: the Pelasgians, the Eteocretans, the Kydonians, the Achaeans and the Dorians, adding that each spoke its own language. He also emphasizes how densely populated Crete was, with its 100 cities, and mentions some of them, such as Knossos, Phaestos, Gortys, Lyttos, Kydonia, and Rhytion.
Excavation has demonstrated the truth of Homer's comments, revealing a host of Minoan sites, four of which were "palace" centers, developing around a large palace. Those known today, apart from Knossos and Phaestos, are at Malia and Zakros.

The Minoan civilization had reached a point of great strength and power in the eastern Mediterranean, and they had regular contacts and trade with the Egyptian kingdoms of the same era. They also sailed as far as the British islands, according to some historical evidence.

In the height of the minoan civilization the Cretan ships were the dominant force in Aegean Also, Cretans had a great tradition in the use of the bow and the sling. That tradition carried over well into the ancient world, and the Cretan archers and slingers (along with their neighbours the Rodians) were sought after as mercenaries in the whole ancient world.
 
Lares:

I'm sorry to tell you that the Troians will probably be removed from the standard map. They're my faves, too, though. ;)

Thank you for telling me about the bug. I had the same problem and didn't know what caused it (I thought it had something to do with the Hanging Gardens). I didn't think of looking at it with the savegame editor. :eek:

In the next vesion there will be a wood resrouce that will be required for ships and maybe other units/buildings.

I will post the tech tree first, so that everyone can give his opinion before working out the in-game tech tree (which is quite a pain is the a... butt).

Settlers will have to settle the desert because we will include the Arabs - settling in modern Jemen. Also, the Carthaginians are supposed to build ships and conquer the coast of Spain... :p

The color of the Carthaginians is black. I know that CIV3 sometimes changes coulours for no apparent reason. Anybody an idea how to fix this?

Ad Hominem:

Thanks for the Minoans, I'll put it in. Good text!

I will post an update later this evening (CET).
 
Two more bugs: Building the Longswordman will cause a crash. The reason for this is the .ini file in the art directory. It should be named longswordman.ini instead of longwordman.ini -- well, this might be another greek unit with the tech of rhetoric as prerequisite ;-)

Another bug seems to be connected with the oracle, but I`m still working on this ...

If you`re doing another version, please allow a maximum of 16 civs! If you think that less civs are best suited for your scenario, you could give some kind of recommendation. But a restriction to, say 12 civs, in the scenario bic can`t be by-passed by players like me.
 
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