The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

[thamis]

Thamis, this is the best mod in the history of Civilization series, btw. I don't really like playing civ 4 single player, but with your mod I actually enjoy it. Now if someone would just use this same effort for an age of exploration mod, I will be happy. And please, no more world war 2 mods. For that I thank you, using your skills for something OTHER than stupid world war 2 mods.

Hey, I'm glad to hear that. Have you checked out Dale's Age of Discoveries mod?

And yes, WWII is way overrated as a historical period...

 

[Dionysius]

I don't think Carthage should be Seafaring. From what I understand, the Romans dominated the seas.

whuh whuh WHAT?! Carthaginians not Seafaring?!
what Planet are you living on?!

i know lifaquatic already answered this, but good GOD...

[in response to below post]

I honestly haven't heard of the Carthaginians as being consummate traders -- at least, not like the Greeks or the Phonecians. It's my understanding that Carthage started as a Phonecian colony, so it makes sense that they would be, but nonetheless it isn't something I've read or heard. Perhaps I should go die of shame again...

please do [go die of shame].
Carthage was THE mercantile megalopolis. it permeated more or less every carthaginian thing.
i take it you only really know that the carthaginians attacked rome and later payed for it.
another thing; the carthaginians are phoenicians, obviously with african influences.
didnt you pay attention in GreekWorld?
good lord, i`m evil.

 

[Hypnotoad]

whuh whuh WHAT?! Carthaginians not Seafaring?!
what Planet are you living on?!

i know lifaquatic already answered this, but good GOD...

You are right. How could I go from thinking that the Romans dominated the seas in the second punic war to thinking the Carthaginians didn't have a sea-based military advantage? I might just die of shame.

You realize, of course, that most people don't know what the second punic war is, right?

So first off, there are a couple of ways that people have been thinking about seafaring: sometimes it is a more trade-based advantage and sometimes a more military-based advantage. I was thinking of it in the later way. I'm happy to stand corrected in such a well-mannered way.

Second, I honestly haven't heard of the Carthaginians as being consummate traders -- at least, not like the Greeks or the Phonecians. It's my understanding that Carthage started as a Phonecian colony, so it makes sense that they would be, but nonetheless it isn't something I've read or heard. Perhaps I should go die of shame again...

It occured to me afterwards that Hannibal was never the leader of Carthage (it was Hanno, I think), but it didn't seem worth correcing in a separate post...

-- Hypnotoad

 

[Hypnotoad]

On the game-balance side, I am getting somewhat tired of running out of techs. Is there any chance that in the next version (or perhaps an alternate version of the next version), you could just increase the cost of all techs in the classical era two-fold and all techs in the imperial era three fold? I would rather be unable to research all the techs than to run out...

On a somewhat related note, is it possible to make the years go by more slowly during the classical era (say 450 B.C.-1AD) and then faster thereafter? It is a bit weird how it slows down during the AD 400's...

-- Hypnotoad

 

[Gladi]

You are right. How could I go from thinking that the Romans dominated the seas in the second punic war to thinking the Carthaginians didn't have a sea-based military advantage? I might just die of shame.

You realize, of course, that most people don't know what the second punic war is, right?

So first off, there are a couple of ways that people have been thinking about seafaring: sometimes it is a more trade-based advantage and sometimes a more military-based advantage. I was thinking of it in the later way. I'm happy to stand corrected in such a well-mannered way.

Second, I honestly haven't heard of the Carthaginians as being consummate traders -- at least, not like the Greeks or the Phonecians. It's my understanding that Carthage started as a Phonecian colony, so it makes sense that they would be, but nonetheless it isn't something I've read or heard. Perhaps I should go die of shame again...

It occured to me afterwards that Hannibal was never the leader of Carthage (it was Hanno, I think), but it didn't seem worth correcing in a separate post...

-- Hypnotoad

Which Hanno? AFAIK there are two known Hannos, one is legendary sailor who got all the way to bay of Guinea, the other member of oligarchy during Second Punic War who was old foe of Hamilcar's and opposed politically Hannibal.

And yes, after first Punic War, Carthago was weak at sea compared to Roma. The peace treaty limited number of their ships and their tonnage. Before that combined Carthago-Etruscan fleets defeated decisevely Greeks.

Oh and the corvi were quickly abandoned- they made ships less sea worthy.

 

[Ick of the East]

The point is that you can still build a swordsman without iron (using bronze, for example), but he won't be as good as those with iron (which requires a smithy to equip them). The units in TAM do not only represent advances in metalworking, but also advances in tactics, training, and logistics.

No, I'm questioning how you can build metal-using units at all, without having access to copper, tin, or iron.
Or am I completely mistaken? But it seems that I can.
Apologies if I am way screwed up, but my coffee is just kicking in.

 

[Gladi]

No, I'm questioning how you can build metal-using units at all, without having access to copper, tin, or iron.
Or am I completely mistaken? But it seems that I can.
Apologies if I am way screwed up, but my coffee is just kicking in.

Volcanic glass? Or seeing how bountiful iron is, or used to be before we mined it all out, you can say that iron resource represents high quality ore veins.

 

[thamis]

Volcanic glass? Or seeing how bountiful iron is, or used to be before we mined it all out, you can say that iron resource represents high quality ore veins.

Precisely. There are metals all over the place, but we can't fill the map with metals. The metals here represent large quantities or high qualities of that metal. Once you have that, you can melt it in a smithy and make high quality equipment from it.

 

[AndreasS]

Have you seen these pictures from early stages of the warlords xp?

http://www.latenightpc.com/pictures/view/E3/2006/south-hall-day-1/civilization-4-warlords-expansion/

Have a look at picture: IMG_2761a and especially IMG_2765a. I think we here have the paved roads the TAM needs...... They are probably from the scenarios, and acts like vanilla game railroads.....

 

[Gladi]

Precisely. There are metals all over the place, but we can't fill the map with metals. The metals here represent large quantities or high qualities of that metal. Once you have that, you can melt it in a smithy and make high quality equipment from it.

Going round that, is it possible to show effects of switch from surface mining to deep mining?

 

[thamis]

Going round that, is it possible to show effects of switch from surface mining to deep mining?

How do you mean?

 

[thamis]

Have you seen these pictures from early stages of the warlords xp?

http://www.latenightpc.com/pictures/view/E3/2006/south-hall-day-1/civilization-4-warlords-expansion/

Have a look at picture: IMG_2761a and especially IMG_2765a. I think we here have the paved roads the TAM needs...... They are probably from the scenarios, and acts like vanilla game railroads.....

Actually... I'll test-play Warlords to see what's possible. Why haven't I done this before...?

 

[Der_Meister]

Hi. I found some problems with the latest version. The text is not appearing when discovering a new tech. Cities name don't appear neither, etc. is it my fault? never had any problems with old versions of TAM, don't know if those are bugs or not.

 

[Gladi]

How do you mean?

As in new veins appearing...

Technologic improvement (not advancement) is something sorely to me missing from vanilla and all mods. Our grain yields are twenty times as large as in ancient times and vanilla gives only +1 . Stable herding incresed meat production several times... list goes on and on.

 

[Mayan Raptor]

Playable Civilizations:
...
- Egypt (Hatshepsut)
...
- Nubia (Taharqa) (not on this map)

I have no idea why you have divided the various Nilotic polities into two distinct powers called "Egypt" and "Nubia". The so-called "Nubians" actually consisted of various cultures which differed as much from each other as any of them did to Kemet. I find doing so analogous to dividing the ancient Iraqi city-states into "Mesopotamia" and "Sumer". Historically speaking, I would consider it more sensible (certainly more consistent) to either lump ALL of the Nilotic powers (Kemet included) into one collective "Nile Valley" civilization or to replace the generic "Nubia" with one of Kemet's southern siblings (Kush, Meroe, take your pick).

 

[Gladi]

I have no idea why you have divided the various Nilotic polities into two distinct powers called "Egypt" and "Nubia". The so-called "Nubians" actually consisted of various cultures which differed as much from each other as any of them did to Kemet. I find doing so analogous to dividing the ancient Iraqi city-states into "Mesopotamia" and "Sumer". Historically speaking, I would consider it more sensible (certainly more consistent) to either lump ALL of the Nilotic powers (Kemet included) into one collective "Nile Valley" civilization or to replace the generic "Nubia" with one of Kemet's southern siblings (Kush, Meroe, take your pick).

Sumer and Akkad divide is very much real. Sumerians while divided for a long time were of one ethnic stock, while the Akkadians of another very very different.

 

[Dionysius]

i think the akkadians [babylonians] were semitic; like the arabs, judaeans,
and phoenicians. the sumerians were likely indo-european; i dont really know.

 

[Mayan Raptor]

Sumer and Akkad divide is very much real. Sumerians while divided for a long time were of one ethnic stock, while the Akkadians of another very very different.

I never mentioned Akkad.

Also, back to Egypt, I don't understand why thamis used Leanor Varela to represent Hatshepsut. Although I think Ms. Varela did a good job portraying Cleopatra (or at least she looked much like Cleopatra would have looked), I don't think she looks like Hatshepsut at all.

This is Hatshepsut:

Though the paint has faded and worn off over a few thousand years, you can see that she had a medium brown complexion as typical of Kemet, not the fair hue of Leanor Varela.

Since you use stills from movies and television for your leaderheads, thamis, in my opinion this portrayal of an Egyptian queen by Somali model Iman in Michael Jackson's Remember the Time music video comes at least slightly closer to Hatshepsut's actual appearance.

I think so, anyway.

EDIT: Holy f**k, Taharqa's a white guy? I though northern Sudanese people had quite dark skin.

 

[Dionysius]

I never mentioned Akkad.

i was replying to Gladi`s post.

 

[Mayan Raptor]

i was replying to Gladi`s post.

I never replied to you.