"The Art of War" Mod Ideas Thread

[Master Kodama]

A few comments and suggestions:

*The Iybyon were Korean guerillas that fought against Toyotomi Hideyoshi (who Tokugawa Ieyasu later betrayed to become Shogun of Japan) invasion of Korea.

IIRC, Tokugawa did not betray Hideyoshi. Rather, Hideyoshi died, and Tokugawa fought with Hideyoshi's son over the right to succeed Hideyoshi as Shogun. Not directly relevant to the scenario, but I thought I'd mention it.

As for the unit line, Nodachi Samurai is, I think, TOO specific. Nodachi were not the mainstay of feudal Japanese infantry by any means; I believe their primary purpose was as anti-cavalry infantry. Try "Samurai Infantry" -- it's more inclusive, and matches up nicely with Samurai Cavalry as well.

Also, be careful with the multiple UUs. When I was working on my East Asia mod, I gave each civ 4 UUs, thus aproximately 1 per era. Each civilization had only 1 really useful UU at any given time. With 6, avoiding overlap could be difficult, and you'll want to consider game balance and avoid clustering a civs UUs too close together in the eras, which could give certain civs a massive advantage at certain points in the course of the game. I'm not recommending that you get rid of any of the UUs you're planning, just suggesting you keep this stuff in mind and remember that some of these "UUs" could actually be flavor units with the same stats as the standard unit.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Actually, I meant Toyotomi Hideyori. Their names are so much alike (at least to me ) that I often get it confused. Tokugawa did betray Hideyoshi to a certain extent in that Tokugawa pledged loyalty to the Toyotomis, but later plotted against them.

Most of the UUs are flavor units. Half of them have the same stats as normal units. They are simply there to represent a period of history. Each civ only really has 2 UUs.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Another option is to do away with UUs altoghether, instead have each civ have their own flavor units(with a few overlaps if necessary). Instead, the Unique wonders would start a Golden Age(For this mod), this approach I am strongly considering for both the Heart of Destiny Epic Mod and the Battlefield Asia mod....

 

[Master Kodama]

Actually, I meant Toyotomi Hideyori. Their names are so much alike (at least to me ) that I often get it confused. Tokugawa did betray Hideyoshi to a certain extent in that Tokugawa pledged loyalty to the Toyotomis, but later plotted against them.

Most of the UUs are flavor units. Half of them have the same stats as normal units. They are simply there to represent a period of history. Each civ only really has 2 UUs.

Splendiferous! Everything else looks tip-top. But trust me on the Samurai Infantry thing

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Another option is to do away with UUs altoghether, instead have each civ have their own flavor units(with a few overlaps if necessary). Instead, the Unique wonders would start a Golden Age(For this mod), this approach I am strongly considering for both the Heart of Destiny Epic Mod and the Battlefield Asia mod....

I thought of that before, but then decided not to do it. One of the reasons was because it's still relatively difficult to find ancient to pre-Industrial flavor units (though we have a seemingly endless supply of modern and World War II units ) The UUs are simply there to express a particular period of history when the civ was at its height of power. I also took a page out of the DyP mod by giving unique techs to each civ. Each civ will have a unique wonder. China will have the "Forbidden City", Japan will have "Himeji Castle", Korea will have "Changdeokgung Palace", the Mongols will have "The Mongol Horde", and Tibet will have the "Potala Palace".

By the way, I'll change that "No-dachi Samurai" to simply "Samurai Infantry."

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Your correct of coarse. Currently, Japan is the only Asian Civilization which I can safely say has enough pre-industrial age units. China is of coarse, second place, followed by Korea(Thanks entirely to DPII's fine work), and then the Mongols.

 

[Master Kodama]

Hey, this is great! It's like I get a new redesign of my old unfinished Asia mod, and I don't even have to do any work

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Everything is location, location, location. Each civilization has relatively unique starting conditions. Some civilizations will be dangerously close to Barbarian camps will others will be relatively safe. Some will start with relatively rich terrain (rivers, plains, and grassland) while others will be forced to expand soon due to poor terrain (desert).

Similar to the Mesoamerica campaign in Civ3 Conquests, each civ will also battle minor civs for dominance.

Starting Conditions (part 1)

China
Starting Location: Rich
Barbarian Threat: Under Siege
Relative Difficulty: Easy

The cradle of Chinese civilization is the fertile and rich lands near the Huang He (the Yellow River). With this rich territory, civilization can thrive, grow, and expand in all directions. All that stands in the way are hordes of barbarian tribes that constantly threaten the rise of the Middle Kingdom. Though the Chinese have a tremendous advantage of fertile terrain and access to numerous natural resources, it faces the menacing Xiong-Nu raiders. Two empires also have the potential to prevent China from realizing its place as "All Under Heaven" - the mighty Kingdom of Tibet and the rampaging Mongolian Hordes.

Japan
Starting Location: Good
Barbarian Threat: Moderate
Relative Difficulty: Moderate

The islands of Japan arose from the drops of the spear tip of the great deities Izanami and Izanagi. A land forged by war, Japan must establish supremacy over all of the Japanese Islands by defeating the Ainu to the north. Once the Yamato are established and the barbarian threats crushed, the land of Japan can thrive in relative safety, as it is seperated from the mainland by the great barrier of the sea. If unchecked, the Koreans can easily become fierce competitors.

Korea:
Starting Location: Decent
Barbarian Threat: Moderate
Relative Difficulty: High

Throughout its history, Korea has had the misfortune of being in between three powerful forces - the Chinese, the nomadic tribes of Mongolia, and the Japanese. The lands of the Koreans are dangerously close to the Japanese and can be overrun swiftly should the Japanese launch an amphibious assault. The threats do not lie with this dubious neighbor alone, as the Chinese and Mongols can become overwhelming powers to contend with. In order to succeed the great trials ahead, Korea must depend on its ingenuity and will to survive. Should the Kingdom of Korea fend off the the powerful threats it faces, the true power of the Koreans can be realized through its mastery of technology.

 

[RedAlert]

Hey, what a good idea! And quite interesting at that. Those descriptions really had me 'immersed'. I await part two...

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Starting Conditions (part 2)

Mongols
Starting Location: Poor
Barbarian Threat: Intense
Relative Difficulty: Moderately High

The Mongols have long since been a people of the horse for it is the horse that carries them far to new lands...and new conquests. The lands of Mongolia are simple vast steppes, populated by wandering nomadic tribes. However, to the south are lands of great riches, all ripe for the taking. For the Mongols to become a true power in this land, they must conquer by the speed of their horses and the sharpness of their blades. But before they can, the lands all must be unified under the rule of a great Mongol warrior - a mighty Khan. In such a world, a Mongol conqueror need only remember one thing:
Muurand togloom, hulgand ukhel. (What is a joke for a cat will be death for a mouse.)

Tibet
Starting Location: Poor
Barbarian Threat: Moderate
Relative Difficulty: Moderate

Like the great magical Yidam beings, the people of the "roof of the world" are both spiritual and wrathful. Indeed, the mysteries of Tibet taunts the imagination and the secrets of its great monasteries and sages are well-kept. The lands of Tibet is a vast harsh mountainous land. And such adversity can create the fiercest of warriors. While the lands of Tibet are poor and rugged, there is much profit to be sought north. All that stands in the way is the empire of the Middle Kingdom.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Must play....

How is the tech tree in this mod btw? I need all the ideas I can get for Battlefield Asia...man...why do I have to pick all the hard projects?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

The tech tree is the hardest part (besides searching and requesting for flavor units ). I have the Post-Neolithic/Bronze Age techs completed and am working on the Iron Age techs. There's going to be 4 eras, so I still have a lot of research to do.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Feel free to use the techs I've made so far btw...(Although I have no idea where to put some of them in the tree)...another option I'm considering is replacing all the non-asian tech icons with Asian equaleviants, and replacing a few techs with more appropriate ones(Religion techs instead of Polytheism, Monotheism, and Theology)

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Wonders list (part 1)

Wonders symbolize landmark achievements, but they are not all-powerful and all good. Wonders can be double-edged swords, as they may bring good results, but can cause other problems.

Great Wonders
Wan Li Chang Cheng (The Great Wall)
Pros: Doubles strength against Barbarians, Doubles City Defenses, Builds Walls in all cities
Cons: -1 happiness in all cities; costs 5 gold per turn
Reqs: Stone Quarry Resource, 2 Work Camps

"The Art of War"
Pros: Increases Army Value, builds Barracks in all cities
Cons: None
Reqs: 3 Barracks

The Silk Road
Pros: Treasury earns 5%
Cons: None
Reqs: Silk Resource, 4 Marketplaces

The Treasure Fleet
Pros: Increases ship movement, builds "Baochuan" (Treasure Ship") every few turns
Cons: costs 4 gold per turn
Reqs: 2 Harbors, Timber Resource

The Forbidden City (Chinese Unique Wonder)
Pros: Reduces Corruption, builds Magistrate in all cities
Cons: costs 6 gold per turn
Reqs: Timber Resource, Jade Resource, 2 Work Camps

Small Wonders
Jingdezhen Porcelain Artisans
Pros: Increases production, +1 trade in all trade-producing tiles
Cons: costs 4 gold per turn
Reqs: 3 Artisan Shops, Clay Resource

Grand Fortress
Pros: Builds Army without leader
Cons: costs 3 gold per turn
Reqs: 4 Barracks

 

[Master Kodama]

Very interesting take on the wonders. Keep it up!

[Edit] [Re-edited] "edit" content moved to new post so I could bump this thread

 

[Master Kodama]

As an alternative to "treasury earns 5%" for the Silk Road, I might suggest that it pay maintainance costs for trade-based buildings. The 5% thing seems like more of an investment-based thing, but its not a big deal so pick whichever you like, I suppose.

Oh, and if you are going into the industrial as I take it, perhaps the Zaibatsu should be a wonder?? The zaibatsu were big, government-contracted corporations that were key in Japan's fast rise to industrial power. Not sure what such a wonder would do though.... Just a thought.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Actually, the scenario will span the time from the years 2070 BCE (the theoretical date for the rise of the Xia Dynasty) to 1722 CE (the death of Emperor Kangxi of the Qing Dynasty). The reason it ends at the year of Kangxi's death is because in the reign of the emperors after Kangxi, China (and much of East Asia as well) began to decline in power compared to the rising empires in Europe and European contact began to increase at an increasingly larger scale. Of course, arguably, one of the causes of the decline of the Asian powers was because they suffered from hubris and became too self-satisfied. Since this is a "what-if" scenario, the object is to build an extremely wealthy, powerful, and relatively advanced civilization capable of withstanding invasion from abroad.

As for the "Silk Road" having the "treasury earns 5%" flag: I haven't entirely decided what its stats would be just yet.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Just an announcement to notify everyone that this mod project isn't dead yet.

Here is a list of what is done so far:
-Units are 50% complete (just need the graphics and civlopedia done).
-Tech Tree is 50% complete (this is turning out to be the hardest part).
-Governments are 75% complete.
-Resources are 75% complete.
-Buildings are 50% complete (again, graphics and civlopedia need to be done).

My progress has been kind of slow as of late since I've been working on new city graphics. I'm attempting to give each civ its own unique graphics. By mid-March, I should have the Chinese city graphics series completely finished and the Japanese city graphics re-done. Right now, I'm working on Tibetan city graphics.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Good to see that you, like me, haven't given up yet..

But yes, the tech tree is a pain in the #@%

Currently I'm just replacing the icons of the first two eras, and leaving the positions of the techs relatively intact

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Unit Line Revisions:

China:

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Shang Axeman -> Buzi -> Zhanmadao Swordsman

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Zhuge-Nu -> Fire Lancer

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
War Chariot -> Tang Cavalry -> Heavy Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Fanchuan

Navy (War)
War Junk -> War Tiger

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

Tibet:

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Nomad Warrior -> Infantry -> Ke Tri Swordsman

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Composite Bowman -> Khampa Archer

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Tibetan Warrior Monk

Cavalry
Horseman -> Himalayan Raider -> Khampa Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Galley

Navy (War)
*This is largely "what-if" since Tibet is a landlocked country. Had Tibet conquered China completely for a while, they probably would have utilized Chinese warships the same way Mongols utilized Korean warships.
War Junk -> Cannon Junk

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

Korea:

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Ko-Choson Axeman -> Swordsman -> Iybyon

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Hwarang -> Choson Arquebusier

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
Horseman -> Koryo Horse Archer -> Heavy Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Galley

Navy (War)
War Junk -> Kobukson

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Hwach'a

Mongolia:
*The Mongols were willing to recruit various ethnicities into their army, taking advantage of their expertise.

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Nomad Warrior -> Infantry -> Turkic Auxilaries*

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Composite Bowman -> Khampa Archer*

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
Nomad Raider -> Mongol Light Cavalry -> Keshik

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Galley

Navy (War)
War Junk -> Cannon Junk

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

Japan:

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Yayoi Axeman -> Bushi -> Samurai

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Daikyu Archer -> Ashigaru Arquebusier

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Yari Ashigaru -> Sohei

Cavalry
Horseman -> Cavalry Archer -> Samurai Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Galley

Navy (War)
War Junk -> Cannon Junk

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon