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The Australian Education System

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Masada, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Sharwood

    Sharwood Rich, doctor nephew

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    My ability to learn is limitless. And I can honestly say it taught me a whole heapin' helpin' o' nothin'.

    Although I just reminded myself of an old line I used when the Secretary to the NSW Education Minister visited our school years ago. He asked me what I was studying. I replied with this gem:

    "Well, mine English teacher done learned me to talk myself the English good."

    I think I escaped punishment because everyone was too horrified to come up with one.
     
  2. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    It's all a big Orwellian plot by the fascist state government to institute Newspeak.
     
  3. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Finally someone says the truth about language classes for native speakers where you have to read pure crap. And they even call it "selection of our best literature". Our best literature? Some crappy book written by John Doe cannot compete with the FULL versions of Verdaguer's poems or El Tirant lo Blanch, whose CUT versions are also mandatory at school.
     
  4. Sharwood

    Sharwood Rich, doctor nephew

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    I just remembered something we were forced to read. That eye, the sky, by Tim Winton, who's supposed to be one of Australia's best authors. If I ever meet the meet, I will punch him full-force in the face. I mean that.

    Only one girl in the class even bothered to finish it, and she actually had headaches for days afterwards. I've read literally thousands of books in my time, many of them bad, but this was hands-down the worst tripe I've ever seen. It made less sense than porn flicks, and the characterisations weren't as good either.
     
  5. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Even its title makes no sense at all. It must be really bad.
     
  6. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Your erroneous assumption not mine. Why would I in the Northern Territory be talking about a New South Wales specific course?

    You've misinterpreted what I wrote and placed it in the wrong context.

    It wasn't a fallacy, when properly contextualized. Confirmation bias ftw!

    Your trying to construe an argument I presented as something it is manifestly not. Confirmation bias ftw!

    ... your assuming that the advanced part of advanced English had a specific connotation for me. When it doesn't. "Advanced English" is called English Studies, or simply Studies in SSABSA, I was not aware that NSW used "Advanced Studies" as a course title. Confirmation bias ftw!

    Again I don't care, it was superfluous to my argument.

    Markers are overwhelmingly populist in inclination when it comes to marking, they read from a limited pool of literary sources and tend to be fairly conformist in mindset. It's common practice in private schools to choose obscure texts which the markers have not read on the same logic as your film example. I know I choose Dante Alighieri's, Divina Commedia: Inferno for my final year analysis specifically for that reason on the advisement of a former English exam marker and well regarded English teacher to choose something obscure. The same texts overwhelmingly crop up in English essays, including The Great Gatsby, 1984, A Brave New World for instance, which are populist classics and say Khaled Hosseni's works which are topical and populist at this present moment. The same poetry and films also overwhelmingly crop up, simply because it is easy for teachers to help students with works they are familiar with. Teachers tend to have a rotation of poetry and texts they will cover, they switch every year, but come back to the same texts in a few years with minor modifications.

    It is also eminently possible to pass English at a middle tier level with a very simplistic understanding of the texts. Most of which is derived from the teachers themselves dropping unsubtle hints or even sitting down and hammering out prepared notes.

    Context...? Is there such a thing?! Because the English I'm talking about doesn't have an exam. It also appears that adjusting for state boundaries in middle tierEnglish, that Victoria does indeed have an exam which requires

    It would help if you understood how the system operates, adjusted your expectations to fit everyone else and understood that your just being a fool (I've bolded the reason why).

    Contextually where do you think I was talking about? Because if you think I was talking about NSW specifically or anything aside from Australia in a broad contextual statement then you have issues. Bolded, confirmation bias ftw!

    Your also ignorant of the fact that the Territory operates under the Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia (SSABSA).

    You argued it because you were caught in a confirmation bias and ignored my repeated qualifications.

    I'm currently residing in a Hotel in less than sunny Russian climes. I'm not the one arguing at parallels :p

    *

    You were taught stuff in English?

    I lay the blame at the education system which taught me to sound out words when I couldn't spell them. Anything slightly curve-ball and it would throw me off. It's only been after I've forced myself to spell and ironically use my mobile phones auto-text thingy that I've improved my spelling to its present mediocre level. Sentence structure can probably be laid at the altar of Victoria's terrible education strikes when I was younger, one of my teachers was a Union Organizer and was out of class most of the year and left us to the tender mercies of a series of useless replacement teachers.

    English taught me to learn nothing about nothing in the most possible time!

    Australia's authors are horrible for the most part. After reading Fly Away Peter by David Malouf's and asking a good literary friend of mine if he was as awful a writer as I thought I got a rather interesting response "He's an awful writer" this was the same person who had been a teacher for a good thirty years.
     
  7. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    One of my additional texts for this year is a Tim Winton (Dirt Music). The actual story and writing style seems horrific, and the characterisation just makes you hate all the characters. But English teachers love Tim Winton, because he is, apparently, technically masterful. Perhaps it's the lack of punctuation or the indecisive and ever changing tense. You can drag a great many techniques out of his writing, and that is what the BOS regards as technically proficient. But the stories themselves are not the most enjoyable, all though I did really enjoy his book of short stories, The Turning. Cloudstreet was marginally more enjoyable than Dirt Music, because you can actually develop empathy for some characters.

    Apparently, Dirt Music is being turned into a movie starring Colin Farrell, Russell Crowe (replacing Heath Ledger) and Rachel Weisz. Because Colin Farrell would be an accurate potrayal of Australiana.
     
  8. PiMan

    PiMan Deity

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    Any book, play or film that has to be studied is horrible. Maybe not always as bad as the book you discribed, but still bad.
    I would probably have liked Gattaca had I not been forced to study it in year 11, but studying it means I will never like it.
    Everything else I studied, I wouldn't have read or watched otherwise. My school had a weird thing of choosing books that I had no interest in whatsoever.

    The only Tim Winton I had to read was Lockie Leonard: Human Torpedo. That book was horrible, but I think the English teachers chose it because they wanted something we would like. They failed from my perspective.
    I'm not sure how anyone thought it should be made into TV series, I'm just glad the series was made after I passed year 8, else I would probably have been forced to watch it.
     
  9. Wong512

    Wong512 Chieftain

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    Being a year 12 NSW HSC student this year... being doing 3u maths and doing okay at it. 3u is slightly above 2u maths which is in my opinion the average level of maths, and then general maths which i wouldnt call directly below average.

    For those not educated in Australia, 3u studies a respectable more than 2u, and 2u has a concentration on trig functions, logs and the etc, nothing advanced. General mathematics is more on life maths like finance, and is a rehash on everything people learnt during year 9 and 10, it doesnt go into applications of algebra. There is a 4u course, which in my school would require quite mathematical talent to partake in, they learn a higher application of 3u. This is however all my opinion which ive observed in my school only, i cant speak for the more prestigious schools in sydney ;)

    I wonder how behind the NSW education system is behind for mathematics... ive heard in other parts of the world they learn calculus and integrals in year 9, while ive just learnt it only a year ago.

    Also im wondering if the physics i learn as part of the HSC course is very basic or average compared to others in the world
    Ive learnt Lenz Law, basic projectile motion, and applications of Newton's universal gravitation, as excerpts of the physics HSC course.

    Im particularly wanting to be compared to what Europe, Japan and China do at my age.

    someone care to enlighten me on my place in this world :p
    I am becoming more cynical towards my educational system, recent trivial news was that it was reconsidered whether marking in red pen was suitable towards students, it might be too "harmful" and "aggressive". In my opinion thats a tad... no comment. Any thoughts?

    lastly my english is a product of the Australian education system, ive been in it since kindy :)
    I dont know if it matters if im technically ESL, english second language, my first being chinese

    cheers
     
  10. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    The biggest problem I have with Tim Winton is he wants so desperately to make an overarching point using the most literary devices he can. What you end up with is a jarring mass of junk, it reads poorly, the characters become sock puppets ad the story is secondary at best. Malouf is also guilty of this, only infinitely worse.

    I believe that Australian mathematics standards are covered in a comprehensive national framework, so it's fairly uniform. I can compare it to New Zealand and Indonesia for mathematics if that will help. In which case I can say its broadly similar to the New Zealand model and the level of educational attainment is roughly parallel year on year. Indonesia's mathematics I gather broadly follow an Asian model which focuses more on basics, doesn't tend to rely on calculators and uses significantly more manual workings. You will not be as advanced mathematically if you come out of that system (assuming of course you finish high school) but you will have a stronger grasp of non calculator based mathematics.
     
  11. Sharwood

    Sharwood Rich, doctor nephew

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    It's about a kid who's father left who urinates on his new neighbours' petrol station - no reason is given - gets into a fight with his old neighbour and best friend when the guy calls his mother a "piss-tank" - no reason is given for the friend suddenly changing from a normal kid into an arsehole - and a random bum starts living with them out of the blue, and has epileptic fits while the kid looks at his erection - again, no reason is given for either. Said bum certainly isn't much of a replacement father figure, if that's his role, what with the public masturbation. Oh, and the 16 year old sister sleeps topless and goes swimming naked. The kid likes this, much as he enjoyed watching his parents have sex. The bum likes it also, leading to the aforementioned routine public masturbation.

    And no, the title is NEVER explained. Although, considering all I've mentioned, why would you want it to be?

    Because no-one in their right mind would ever discuss the Northern Territory when they could be discussing New South Wales. You don't even have an NRL team, nor did you have an ARL or Super :)rolleyes:) League team. Sissies.

    I was taught plenty, it was all just taught very poorly. It's sometimes difficult to distinguish poor teaching from no teaching though, so I'm not surprised you're a little confused.

    I believe I may have been part of the very last year who was actually taught to read and write correctly, instead of this "sound it out" crap. Either that, or my Kindergarten teacher, who was a really great teacher, just ignored the curriculum and just did what she thought was right. Considering how great Mrs Barton was, it was probably the latter.

    My sentence structure brings the awesome. That's actually the cause of one of my problems with creative writing; I write too well (from a technical standpoint, I make no judgements on my own creativity). People aren't used to reading such condensed and technically-sound stuff in stories - I basically rip off Timothy Zahn - and, unless they're more intelligent than average, get confused. How many people here find high school English teachers more intelligent that average?

    I think Communications at university might just top English. Depends on how long a course it is.

    Bryce Courtney is okay, but inconsistent. Then again, he's South African, so he doesn't count.

    My grandmother recently acquired the second copy ever printed of a book called Stumped, or something like that, about a murder involving the Australian cricket team, from some ****wit - my grandmother doesn't swear, so he made quite an impression - while holidaying in Tasmania. Said ****wit is the author.

    My grandmother consistently reads a good-size novel a week, and is probably part of the reason I loved reading as a child. Her taste in books, while different from mine, is good. The last book she recommended to me was Shogun; before that, The Bourne Identity. In other words, her opinion is valuable.

    She is bringing this book up for me to read as part of her quest to convince me to start publishing some of my older stuff, because in her exact words: "If this ****wit can get s*** like this published, you should win the ****ing Nobel Prize in Literature." Remember, my grandmother doesn't swear. So I may have something that knocks winton off his, ahem, pedestal soon. If it's as bad as she says, I'll make a thread about it, and even put it on Wiki.

    That guy who wrote Clockwork Orange is technically masterful. Shakespeare was technically masterful, despite his penchant for making words up and changing their pronunciation just for fun. Tim Winton is a true post-modern artist in literature - he writes weird bullcrap for the sake of it being weird bullcrap. Then we can all masturbate while drinking spring water and eating wet cucumber on triangles of bread while discussing how "ground-breaking" it all is.

    No, Stranger in a Strange Land was ground-breaking. Gulliver's Travels was ground-breaking. That eye, the sky, is pure grade A horse****. Put that on your damn bread triangle.

    I'd watch it if Mick Jagger was in it.

    I read a great book - the aforementioned The Year of Living Dangerously - and some fantastic poetry, the names and authors of which unfortunately escape me, when studying at TAFE. I've also read some great stuff at uni. It's not the fact that we're forced to study it that makes it horrible, it's the general crappiness of what is studied, copmbined with the pathetic manner in which it is taught that is the trouble.

    I really need to watch Gattaca, I watched it once while half-asleep years ago, I remember nothing except that Uma Thurman looked almost attractive for once. That could have been the sleep deprivation though. Also, that British guy who starred in the remade Alfie and screwed his nanny was in it.
     
  12. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    I don't mean I thought you were talking about NSW, but naturally assumed that what you were talking about was the equivalent of it, due to your invocation of that sacred word, advanced. And when you say Australia, as a whole, I don't usually think you are just referring to just the small and insignificant part, but more the whole in general.

    So, your original statement, saying that you could pass high school with flying colours in Australia with the 'advanced literary knowledge' of Harry Potter and Dan Brown, was in fact not referring to passing with flying colours, any sort of high school examination, or anything remotely pertaining to the word advanced (despite its ironic connotation, it's use invoked advanced English). Was I meant to interpret it as 'I left the fishcakes in the freezer, Moses'? Because from your attempted comedic use of 'advanced literary knowledge', meaning in fact, the opposite to just that, combined with the proclamation, and later clarification, that high-school English could be passed without a grasp of the language, would imply this statement about as much as the one you say it does.

    What can I say? I target insignificant details of what is intended to be meaningless passing comments.

    I still maintain that, from by context, your post was obviously stating that in passing Advanced English with a very high mark, you can employee JK Rowling, and be functionally illiterate (later added). Whether you were saying this or not, that is what my brain saw. And when my brain sees, it argues.

    See above.

    I apologise. I should instantly know and interpret your every desire and preference in what I add to my post.

    From my argument's point of view, though, it was quite relevant, which is all that matters. To me.

    This. I can't really remember what I'm arguing about that drew this response, but I gather it was somewhere along the lines of 'you can't use populist texts, firstly because they are generally of a lesser level, and secondly, because they are well known by markers'. Was that it? I think it was. But anyway, I concur with, and declare valid, the above.

    But, you still need to do less popular and familiar texts well, or at least sound like you are. Which would require functional literacy, and long words. You get extra marks for using long words. For example, in my last essay, instead of the saying something like, 'the desire to learn stuff was central to Bearing's life, due to Edson's context, in which the human was most important, compared to Donne's more religious context, creating religious like themes', I wrote, 'the inherent anthropocentricism of Edson's era and surroundings, caused the portrayal of Bearing's epistemological lifestyle, in comparison to Donne's antidisestablishmentarianist sentiments, causing his theocentric portrayal of thematic concerns in his works' This is needed to get a good mark, and is above and beyond what I would call the level of functional literacy. My favourite phrase in an essay was 'extemporaneous perspicacity', which one of my friends used to describe Duke Senior's role in a scene of As You Like It. Again, this shows that some importance is, in fact, put on language, and the good use of it, despite its use as padding, and its essential wanky-ness.

    But that's not what we're discussing, right? ;)

    Well, I'm not arguing that you can't pass, but arguing that you can't pass with flying colours, like you initially stated.

    Well, in life, it would help if you understood how everything operates, but that cannot happen. And I don't like the idea of only posting on a forum in subjects that I have a large fount of knowledge in. I would never have got far past 0 posts. But, I can add my thoughts to the argument, and understand how my system, the largest system in Australia, which is what you were referring to, works.

    And...a fool? Perhaps a naive, stubborn and ignorant child, but a fool?

    Sure I have issues. Issues with a statement saying that in Australia (with NSW being the dominant state (and NT not being)), you can pass (with flying colours, no less) English courses (with the word advanced invoked) if you are functionally illiterate, or resort to simplicity in your work.

    Okay then. Well, SA is small too. :p

    Do you not expect me to see statements from my own contextual perspective? I mean, come on, everything in life is seen from your own contextual viewpoint, and from mine, your statement was something that was completely wrong and was begging to be argued.


    I'm actually quite stuck as to whether I actually agree with what I now think you are saying or not. You still haven't straight out said that what I assumed you were saying, was something that you disagree with, although I have (perhaps only in this post) stated that I don't really have a problem with your statement that the education system sucks, and that generally, literacy standards have decreased. That would possibly be a more beneficial argument, as, quite frankly, I don't know what I think you think I think you think I'm arguing about, or something like that.
     
  13. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Yay! A fellow 2009er! I finished my half-yearlies today, so I'm on holidays! How's the endless pain and suffering going for you. Don't worry, you will belong here (in joke).

    To actually answer your question. I gather that in, say, Britain, subjects are more in depth, but whereas you have to do 5 here (5 2U courses, anyway), you have to do 3 there. Or something.

    Reasonable plots are so 19th century. Tim Winton needs no reason for this, he is the reason.

    :lol:

    Which highlights the obtuse and abstract nature of English. Rambling incoherently could be construed as a technique, so Tim Winton can be too.

    But I don't think it's meant to be a comedy.
     
  14. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Apparently I write rather well apparently (I maintain that is a load of hogwash). In any case it tends to be dreamy, hazy and deeply metaphorical. Typically without much in the way of punctuation; I like it to read like prose poetry. I had a number of teachers who had no idea what it was I was writing about and had to submit it to senior teachers to read and mark. It's not my fault they couldn't follow my metaphors and analogies.

    Often overwritten and often boring.

    Good book, less keen on Bourne...

    Post modernist literature is terrible. I don't know why... but it rings false to me. Cormac McCarthy more or less summed up my literary beliefs via Wikipedia:

    To be entirely honest I don't read enough quality literature... I don't have a decent bookshop and I'm to caught up in either work or my studies to devote the time. A current audit of the books on my bed and desk gives you a hint:

    O.W Wolters: Early Indonesian Commerce
    Coedes: The Indianized States of Southeast Asia
    Munoz: Early Kingdoms of the Indonesian Archipelago and the Malay Peninsula
    O.W Wolters: Indonesian Trade and Society
    Kilcullen: The Accidental Guerrilla;
    W. Durant: Our Oriental Heritage (reccomended by Dachs it's a solid read)
    Various: The Cambridge History of Southeast Asia Volume One, Part One
    Wicks: Money, Markets and Trade In Early Southeast Asia
    Findlay and O'Rourke: Power and Plenty: Trade, War and the World Economy in the Second Millennium

    I discounted all the government stuff I have sitting at home including annual reports.

    EDIT: I missed the other pile :( and I'm ignoring the whole rest of the books not in a pile on my desk which are patiently awaiting my attentions nicely stacked against the wall.
     
  15. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    You've again placed it in the wrong context.

    Re: above.

    Confirmation bias?

    I was a hundred percent aware of the contextual significance of "Advanced English" to you Camikaze! You have a very simple way of extricating yourself from this, acknowledge that you contextualized a part of my post in a way I did not mean and let it go. [refer above]

    You've erroneously made the same argument again and again, despite clarifications and codifications which effectively neutered your argument. You've also admitted to understanding that your arguing at parallels to what I've said. You've also missed the whole point of the argument, you've posted for a portion of the New South Wales system and not the portion that anyone else seems to be talking about or the part I intended (re: Sharwoods post, I'm guessing qualitatively it seems closer to what I suggested; re: PiMan's post which I've referenced as well).

    Much as I hate to say it, I did much the same, but then I didn't do communications (which is what we are looking at for about the fifth or so time). Nevertheless I can assure you that it is possible to get 80%+ with minimal skill in Communications English, I actually tutor people who are functionally illiterate (I tick all the boxes in the first session usually) and then walk them through some simple techniques, this is an analogy, this is symbolism, this is alliteration, I point out the very basic examples, help them write out an assignment there and them check it and get paid for allowing them to write crap. It's also amusing that they write essays which are simply summaries of the plot with the occasional technique I've provided stuck in like a sore thumb. I'm not exaggerating, and this is something I'm fairly knowledgeable about.

    You are correct for about the first time thus far. :lol:

    Re: above. Re: previous argument about your relative standards.

    I personally believe your ignoring the mid tier or bottom level of New South Wales English education and deliberately attempting to be disingenuous in the doing. That is what my argument was about and yet to my knowledge you have thus far only invoked Advanced English as proof to the contrary which isn't reassuring given what I'm talking about.

    It's a Federation and to be honest in the Federal stakes, Queensland matters more. NSW is hardly ever subject to a major swing nor does it ever significantly deviate from what the pollsters and statisticians predict will happen. It is also fairly static in its voting patterns. You make up numbers in the House of Representatives but seldom decide on who will be in government. Your also ignoring the Senate your equal to everyone bar the Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory in those stakes. New South Wales is also the most fiscally and politically dysfunctional state in Australia, even Western Australia has more competent governments and the opposition there has Troy Buswell. You've been overtaken in influence at the Federal level by Victoria and Queensland, the political machines of both your major parties at a state level are either at the point of collapse or collapsed. Most other states also immensely dislike your attempts to leverage the Commonwealth for more money every-time your state government messes things up, it's the only reason that the Territory manages to keep its relatively large chunk of per capita funding because every-time New South Wales raises the issue everyone else uses it as an excuse to strike back. Even Victoria which is against the Territories high stake of Federal funding normally sides against New South Wales out of spite.

    Again I refer you to the above argumentation for the rest of your point, I really only had a desire to shoot down New South Wales supposed ascendancy in the Federal Stakes.

    It's more or less the same as Western Australia's system apparently, normally has solid dealings with Queensland and provides technical assistance to Tasmania :p

    No, you saw my statement as being completely wrong, based on your own contextual awareness. I qualified what I said and you still continued to build up your own argument via the judicious use of confirmation bias.

    Your discussing the functional bit of the English sector; I'm dicussing the dysfunctional bit serves the other 60% by your own numbers. If that helps.
     
  16. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I just realised it doesn't actually matter what people study in English in high school. Most of what people study in HS doesn't matter cos the majority gets forgotten very very quickly. I guess what matters is the bull****ting and writing and analytical skills that get taught, not the content.

    Hmm.
     
  17. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Really? Well, in linguistics what you learn in high school is an elementary basics and without it you can't go anywhere in this field. I suppose that the same happens with mathematics, even though this last one isn't my field.
     
  18. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Well, firstly, in my previous post I had subtly suggested just that. I admitted to seeing it from a different context, before explaining that viewpoint, asking what you actually thought about that viewpoint (OMG! I deviated from your sacred argument! How could I possibly have done that!), which you haven't yet done, before stating that a different argument would be more beneficial. And that sounds like it's slightly bordering on confirmation bias to me.

    My erroneous arguments were admitted repeatedly as not being applicable to what you had said your clarification was. They have instead addressed the points which my 'confirmation bias' caused me to see as flagrantly wrong. And I have been meaning to address those points, and have stated that I agree that there is a lower standard of literacy in Australia.

    It would not have generated much discussion if I addressed your second post of 'low level English courses require low levels of English skills, and low levels and standards of literature, and knowledge about literature, no pass'. A simple 'yes' would not have brought about a conversation fully discussing the pros and cons of the English courses of Australia.

    As for Standard English, the Area of Study used is the same as Advanced English, but with slightly varying texts. It is obviously at a lower standard, but still requires a reasonable use of techniques, not just plot regurgitation. It does have a lower level of texts, that's a given, but as stated in previous posts, this does not lead to passing with flying colours. And why are you wanting to know about the Standard English course of NSW when you are so fixated with the comparatively small NT & SA system representing a thread, and a post, referring to the 'Australian' system?

    This is one of those things I agree with. But it seems more like dodgy marking, and a dodgy course, than obligatory illiteracy. And my point was not to comment on the NT & SA system, but the NSW one, which is the largest one in Australia (I assume), and therefore is a better representation of your comments regarding the Australian system.

    Band 6 refers to a mark of over 90. I don't know how you regard the statement 'passing with flying colours', but a mark of 70%, whilst being regarded as excellent by some people, would not be regarded as passing with flying colours on a general scale, unless you insist that over half the population does, in fact, pass with flying colours. But, that, of course, would mean that marks are relative anyway. Getting in the top 10% could possibly be considered passing with flying colours, and for that, as previously outline, you would need a Band 6.

    See above in this post.

    Of which NT is not a state.

    I am by no means trying to elevate NSW to the supreme and onely worthy state. I am not saying that it has most influence on government. I am not saying that NSW is the best state in which to live. I am saying that, as it has the largest population and the biggest education system, when referring to the Australian education system, it is more applicable to talk about the NSW system, like I am, than the SA & NT system, like you are.

    The Victorian system is similar to the NSW one, as PiMan, I think, has clarified.

    Yes! And that is what I have been saying, what you have been saying I should say, and what I am now telling you I have already said!

    But I was only trying to argue the point I saw, not you. By arguing that first point of yours, or what I saw in it, I did not automatically bind myself to compulsory argue all of your points. I bound myself to argue that one point I saw, and you have obviously bound yourself not to argue that one point. You are only arguing things from your perspective, and are refusing to see mine.

    I addressed the non-dysfunctional 'dysfunctional bit' of the system above in this post.

    And I clarify those figures a bit. 43% for Advanced English. 50% for Standard English.

    To summarise this post: I am trying to not argue this anymore, but you have sustained the argument. Besides, the SA & NT system aren't really representative of the Australian system that you referred to, and you have continued in your refusal to listen to my arguments about the largest education system in the country.
     
  19. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    LOL! That eye, the sky is the garbage day of literature!!! I must read it!!
     
  20. Arwon

    Arwon

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    We don't do linguistics in HS, we start from zero at uni.
     

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