The Balkan Peninsula

[Sideral]

Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, F.Y.R. of Macedonia, Greece, Serbia-Montenegro, Romania, Turkey.

These are the countries that are considered to be the Balkan countries.

Often, threads related to these countries, like mods and scenarios, are full of debates concerning the past and the present of these countries. I have therefore created this thread hoping that all vivid discussions not related to the original purpose of other threads could be posted here.

There is another thread titled "The Balkan Wars" but it refers only to a small time period of history.

The only thing I wish is that this thread will be a civil one and that comments will be "Civ-Fanatic" and not just plain fanatic...

 

[Che Guava]

Anything in particular you were looking to discuss?

 

[Dreadnought]

What a broad topic...is this thread about the entire history of the area?

 

[thetrooper]

What a broad topic...

Indeed.

I have no idea in which direction this thread will go so I'll just throw in my favorite hitorical quote (by Bismarck):

"If there is ever another war in Europe, it will come out of some damned silly thing in the Balkans."

Came true some 16 years after his death.

 

[Che Guava]

"If there is ever another war in Europe, it will come out of some damned silly thing in the Balkans."
.

Bismark has to be one of my favourite european historical characters. Cunning as Macheavelli, agressive as Napoleon, and as witty as Churchill...

And definitely smart about the balkans. They didn't call it the powder keg of Europe for nothing. On that note, here's a question that has always been at the back of my head: how in the heck did Tito manage to keep nationalism under control in yugoslavia during his rule, given the violent history of the area? I know he ruled with something of a firm hand, but there must have been carrots as well as sticks, no?

 

[fing0lfin]

Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, F.Y.R. of Macedonia, Greece, Serbia-Montenegro, Romania, Turkey.

These are the countries that are considered to be the Balkan countries.

Often, threads related to these countries, like mods and scenarios, are full of debates concerning the past and the present of these countries. I have therefore created this thread hoping that all vivid discussions not related to the original purpose of other threads could be posted here.

There is another thread titled "The Balkan Wars" but it refers only to a small time period of history.

The only thing I wish is that this thread will be a civil one and that comments will be "Civ-Fanatic" and not just plain fanatic...

Give a certain topic and we will discuss.
As for the Balkan wars...i am amazed by the untrue and even foolish information which i see in most of the scenarios about the Balkan Wars.

 

[Mirc]

Everyone knows Romania is a Balkan country but if you look on a map you will see it's not in the Balkan Peninsula. It's like saying that Germany is in the Italic Peninsula. Romania is outside the Peninsula, on the continental mass to the north of it. Anyway I don't want to argue on this topic, and I don't want it deleted from that list.

Anyway give us a topic !

 

[Heretic_Cata]

@mirc - yea but we have lots of balkan traits

 

[Louis XXIV]

Bismark has to be one of my favourite european historical characters. Cunning as Macheavelli, agressive as Napoleon, and as witty as Churchill...

And definitely smart about the balkans. They didn't call it the powder keg of Europe for nothing. On that note, here's a question that has always been at the back of my head: how in the heck did Tito manage to keep nationalism under control in yugoslavia during his rule, given the violent history of the area? I know he ruled with something of a firm hand, but there must have been carrots as well as sticks, no?

Well, if we want a "narrow" topic for now, that might be a good one.

I don't know the answer, though.

 

[Mirc]

@mirc - yea but we have lots of balkan traits

It's true.

 

[Che Guava]

Well, if we want a "narrow" topic for now, that might be a good one.

I don't know the answer, though.

Well, from what I know, most of the supression of nationalism came through the secret police of yugoslavia, the OZNA and the UDBA. The former of the two was mostly responsible for the collection of information on individuals, while the latter took action (read: assasinations) on those individuals. Individuals were singled out based on thier (supposed) refusal to participate in the 'brotherhood of the state', which as far as I can tell, meant anything that went against the social harmony that Tito had in mind for Yugoslavia, which of course would include ethnic nationalism.

(I'm really talking out my trousers here, so if anyone knows better, please speak up!)

What I would really like to know is if Tito managed to quell any nationalism indirectly through national programs, or if direct coercion was the only tool he used? And was the disintegration of Yugoslavia after his death a direct effect of suppressing nationlist pride (as opposed to dealing with the root causes), or did it have more to do with the failures of those that followed him?

 

[Bungus]

Well if anyone is burning to impart upon me some knowledge about the lifestyle of the Slavs of the balkan region during the early middle ages, I even have a thread in which they could do so..

 

[fing0lfin]

I think that not only in Jugoslavia but in other countries(which were communistic) there weren't ethnical problems until the fall of the regime. It's simple for me.. under the regime the minorities could not separate. But when the 'democracy' came, an anarchy occured. Everybody wanted autonomy, the minorities began to seek their rights and we all see what happend.
For me is more interesting tha Tito broked his conection with Moskow and Stalin. Tito kept the private properti in Yogoslavia.

 

[Sideral]

I understand that this topic is broad; it comprises more than 4,000 years of history and many people, ethnicities, countries.

I have often replied to posts concerning the ancient Macedonians, the modern country of Macedonia, the ancient Illyrians, the modern Albanians, Alexander the Great, the role of the Balkan countries during WWII, Turkey, Kossovo, etc.

I get angry by propaganda and by nationalists. I have often read posts that are rude, short-sighted and vulgar. I wish that posts not related to the original subject of a thread, could be transferred here and that people from the Balkans could learn things from each other.

Whenever I read something that astonishes me, I try to read some unbiased articles before I blindly deny it.

I could quote here old posts related to this part of Europe/Mediterranean, but I do not wish to be a fire-starter and I will copy-paste here only new posts from other threads.

Now, to answer one question, Romania geographically seems not to be included in the peninsula, but it is considered to be a Balkan country.

Have a nice day

 

[Mirc]

Illyrians. I don't know much about them. Could someone tell me what's with them (when they existed, what contribution they had, etc.)?

 

[sydhe]

Wallachia seems as much a part of the Balkans as Bosnia and Croatia and it would seem strange to have Wallachia and not Moldavia. Transylvania is really outside but it gets dragged into the discussion because it's currently attached to Romania.

 

[Dreadnought]

I have a question: What was the big arguement about FYR Macedonia's flag a decade ago?

 

[sydhe]

They had a Vergina Sun symbol on the flag, a symbol which was found in the tombs of ancient Macedon, and Greece protested. Finally, Macedonia changed the flag to show a different solar symbol.

 

[Sideral]

Illyrians. I don't know much about them. Could someone tell me what's with them (when they existed, what contribution they had, etc.)?

I will quote a small, harmless introduction to the Illyrians:

Illyria and Illyricum

ILLYRIA AND ILLYRICUM [Illyria and Illyricum], ancient region of the Balkan Peninsula. In prehistoric times a group of tribes speaking dialects of an Indo-European language swept down to the northern and eastern shores of the Adriatic and established themselves there. The region that they occupied came to be known as Illyria, and therefore the name has vague limits. Among the Illyrian peoples were the tribes later called the Dalmatians and the Pannonians; therefore Illyria is sometimes taken in the widest sense to include the whole area occupied by the Pannonians, and thus to reach from Epirus N to the Danube. More usually Illyria is used to mean only the Adriatic coast N of central Albania and W of the Dinaric Alps.

The Illyrians were warlike and frequently engaged in piracy. The mines of the region, located inland, attracted the Greeks, but the terrain was too difficult. Greek cities were established on the coast in the 6th cent. BC, but they did not flourish, and generally the Greeks left the Illyrians alone.

Philip II of Macedon and later Philip V warred against them, but without permanent results. An Illyrian kingdom was set up in the 3d cent. BC with the capital at Scodra (present-day Shkodër, Albania), but trouble over Illyrian piracy led the Romans to conduct two victorious wars against Scodra (229-228, 219 BC). After the Dalmatians had split from the kingdom, the Romans conquered Genthius, king of Scodra, and established (168-167 BC) one of the earliest Roman colonies as Illyricum. The colony was enlarged by the total conquest of Dalmatia in several wars (notably 156, 119, 78-77 BC). The southern Illyrians were finally conquered (35-34 BC) by Augustus—a conquest confirmed by the campaigns of 29-27 BC Illyricum was expanded by conquests (12-11 BC) of the Pannonians.

At the time of the stubborn revolt of the Illyrians (AD 6-9) the territory was split into the provinces of Dalmatia and Pannonia, but the term Illyricum was still used. It was later given to one of the great prefectures of the late Roman Empire. Illyricum then included much of the region N of the Adriatic as well as a large part of the Balkan Peninsula.

When Napoleon revived (1809) the name for the Illyrian Provs. of his empire he included much of the region N of the Adriatic and what is today Slovenia and Croatia. Roughly the same region was included in the administrative district of Austria called (1816-49) the Illyrian kingdom.

Bibliography: See S. Casson, Macedonia, Thrace, and Illyria (1926).

 

[Mirc]

Thank you, Sideral.

it's currently attached to Romania.

:a smiley: