The Barbarian Challenge
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
I tried messing with this one again with a different variant. I tested to see if we could get stonehenge, as I thought it might help with border pops. I was just barely able to get it before the AI and not get killed, although it took building a few warriors in between to save our capital. It didn't really end up helping that much, as each new city didn't really benefit all that meaningfully from the free border pop, and it didn't end up helping the fogbusting as much as I thought it might. I don't think it would have led to an earlier finish date.
King Pluto
Emperor
Thread necro time!
I remembered this game after seeing a mention of it in another topic and realized I never got around to finishing it. Well, tonight, I finally achieved a slow and steady domination...
...in 2084 AD
Anyone who hasn't tried it and wants an exercise in slaughter and frustration should give it a shot.
I remembered this game after seeing a mention of it in another topic and realized I never got around to finishing it. Well, tonight, I finally achieved a slow and steady domination...
...in 2084 AD
Anyone who hasn't tried it and wants an exercise in slaughter and frustration should give it a shot.
Still struggling with different variants.
One discovery I've made is that you can help with economy if you build 5-10 chariots and latter horse archers and just go barbarian on barbarians. Raze, pillage. They will respawn but you can fogbust some areas and gain enough gold to tech.
In my experience pure fast stacks are better for conquests than swords/maces/elephants + catapults. Since they can move faster and you can make up by speed of destroying enemy's production capacity and reinforcements arrive faster.
How do you guys deal with economy as all cottages get pillaged and it's not worth to build or keep many cities but you need cities and units. Also how do you deal with emancipation?
One discovery I've made is that you can help with economy if you build 5-10 chariots and latter horse archers and just go barbarian on barbarians. Raze, pillage. They will respawn but you can fogbust some areas and gain enough gold to tech.
In my experience pure fast stacks are better for conquests than swords/maces/elephants + catapults. Since they can move faster and you can make up by speed of destroying enemy's production capacity and reinforcements arrive faster.
How do you guys deal with economy as all cottages get pillaged and it's not worth to build or keep many cities but you need cities and units. Also how do you deal with emancipation?
Imperator Knoedel
Simperator Knoedel
Trying my hand at this game here when suddenly what is this:
Spoiler :
I settled on wine hill and started archery. While hinduism is doable, you will have about 5 cities for the most game and you can whip monuments. Happiness is not such a problem as there are plenty of luxuries.
My second city was south on hill next to two pigs. Reasoning for this is that you can keep the pigs by having two archers on hills and also you can chop under cover of archers or in between barbarian waves.
Then the aim was to block of north so I settled two cities west at bend and east near coast on the river.
I built 7 chariots and razed one barbarian city, then added another 5 (2 from first stack didn't survive and one got killed on the way)
Really key tech is currency as it enables you to run wealth. Until you have currency you can't have many units outside or many cities. Usually warring games are production constrained but this one is economically constrained as you can't build cities or have many units.
I aimed to block and fogbust the northern part, so I built two cities, one on the hill close to horses in the middle and the other near 8 gems by the river on the west coast. At this point maces were starting to show up and I had to resupply archers. The new cities all got walls, monument, library. Toward the west I placed archers on hills until the coast. After I did this, the barbarians started spawning much less.
After currency I went feudalism and construction. Since now I could build wealth in some cities, I was able to amass 15 swordsmen, 5 longbows and 5 catapults. With this I was able to take first barbarian city defended by grenadiers. Research was directed towards education, then rifling.
As I think this is now a purely mop-up stage - 20 maces and 10 catapults can take out 5 five grenadiers/riflemen and once city is secured, longbows can defend it. I stopped.
Great challenge and great learning experience
My second city was south on hill next to two pigs. Reasoning for this is that you can keep the pigs by having two archers on hills and also you can chop under cover of archers or in between barbarian waves.
Then the aim was to block of north so I settled two cities west at bend and east near coast on the river.
I built 7 chariots and razed one barbarian city, then added another 5 (2 from first stack didn't survive and one got killed on the way)
Really key tech is currency as it enables you to run wealth. Until you have currency you can't have many units outside or many cities. Usually warring games are production constrained but this one is economically constrained as you can't build cities or have many units.
I aimed to block and fogbust the northern part, so I built two cities, one on the hill close to horses in the middle and the other near 8 gems by the river on the west coast. At this point maces were starting to show up and I had to resupply archers. The new cities all got walls, monument, library. Toward the west I placed archers on hills until the coast. After I did this, the barbarians started spawning much less.
After currency I went feudalism and construction. Since now I could build wealth in some cities, I was able to amass 15 swordsmen, 5 longbows and 5 catapults. With this I was able to take first barbarian city defended by grenadiers. Research was directed towards education, then rifling.
As I think this is now a purely mop-up stage - 20 maces and 10 catapults can take out 5 five grenadiers/riflemen and once city is secured, longbows can defend it. I stopped.
Great challenge and great learning experience
Attachments
If you peek at worldbuilder, you'll see AIs don't really have anything to do but research.... no room for expansion.
In any case, most VC are disabled so you have nothing to worry about
Mec AntiKythera
King
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 980
I agree, great challenge and learning experience. Funny to see your top 5 cities in exactly the same location as mine. I think we had pretty similar games though I am not done yet. My first invasion force of WEs+Cats got caught off-guard by previously unseen Grens that we coming my way.
edit-- Lib went at 1100 AD or so in my game, there was some warring going on I think.
I played this a few months back, but didn't want to necro bump the thread. 
IIRC, I got swamped on my first run through, and the second was ok. A little slow going, but I guess that was the point. Things soon fell into a basic pattern: settle a city, consolidate the front line, stabilize the economy, push on. Early commerce sites are important, and you need to get to Alphabet and Currency ASAP.
A lot of the dynamics overlapped with AW. Except... no units could exceed 10XP.
In spite of the Protective leader, all defenders outside of cities should be Melee units, for the Woodsman III promo (first strikes + healing).
IIRC, I got swamped on my first run through, and the second was ok. A little slow going, but I guess that was the point. Things soon fell into a basic pattern: settle a city, consolidate the front line, stabilize the economy, push on. Early commerce sites are important, and you need to get to Alphabet and Currency ASAP.
A lot of the dynamics overlapped with AW. Except... no units could exceed 10XP.
In spite of the Protective leader, all defenders outside of cities should be Melee units, for the Woodsman III promo (first strikes + healing).
Mec AntiKythera
King
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 980
I played this a few months back, but didn't want to necro bump the thread.
IIRC, I got swamped on my first run through, and the second was ok. A little slow going, but I guess that was the point. Things soon fell into a basic pattern: settle a city, consolidate the front line, stabilize the economy, push on. Early commerce sites are important, and you need to get to Alphabet and Currency ASAP.
A lot of the dynamics overlapped with AW. Except... no units could exceed 10XP.
Woodsman III !! I didn't think of that, but then I didn't have metal for a long time anyway.
It seems crucial to make some room for cottages and actually work them. Teching w/o tech trades or even foreign trade routes is an uphill battle to be sure. I think that is the main lesson I learn from this challenge, create a safe pocket for cottages and get them worked as quickly as possible. Having a couple Chariots ready to pick off any barbs that make it through, before they pillage, is a must.
I didn't get enough Great People, that is also a struggle when production is priority number one. The first GS went for Mathematics, the second for an Academy. The third didn't come for a long time. How did you guys handle GP?
It is strange to play a game through w/o GGenerals and completely free of religion, both are sorely missed.
This is a very fun challenge, it sounds like nearly everyone is playing it several times looking for ways to improve. Great work, Kossin.
Mec AntiKythera
King
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 980
I have a lot of playthoughs on this map and collected tendencies.
After several playthrough I found that it is possible to withstand reliably first 70T with only 4
Warriors. One goes for Shock against Barbarian Archers, 3 others for Medics2. Medics will be useful
for a later game.
As reported earlier in this thread it is possible to found own religion in this map (we are isolated
from other AIs with mountains ridge).
While Meditation (Buddhism) is cheaper to get IA goes for Hinduism first and there is no way to
overtake Hinduism from AI as Roosevelt doesn't have Mysticism.
With little situational failgold I found I can complete Oracle reliably.
=====
The problem with thit map - early workers aren't useful as you can't defend land improvements.
Author of map stated that sea area are safe (nearby coast is blocked by icy tiles).
So it is natural to settle near coast with sea foods and Wine tile on a plain hill is best choice.
You get ciry with extra hammer and commerce (total: 2F2H2C).
Commerce is important to have time to found religion.
Another problem with map - you can't start large number of cities on Deity. I am unable to carry
early research with 3-4 cities around (( So I want to get to Writing/Currency as fast as possible to
be able to carry on research even with broken income.
=====
So I started game with plan:
* found religion (Shrine gives me +1C per city)
* get to Writing as fast as possible (Library and 2 scientist boost significantly 1 city research)
* as shorted path to Writing is via Priesthood I will have an opportunity to build Oracle
* get Mathemetics / Feudalism before building any Workers to start with +50% chop & +50% Worker speed boost
* with established economy start fog busting by building frontier cities
I moved settler to Wine plain hill near the ocean. We have good defence (+25% from hill) and
production and extra commerce.
I started with sequence: Mysticism => Meditation.
First goal is to get +2F from Crab. I made Work Boat in 6 turns with 3T forest hill.
Production was switched to Warriors. I need 4 of them.
Next goal is to get to Meditation first, so everithing is into commerce: I switched to Crab for +2C
and sea tile later when city got to size 2.
I learned Mysticism on T9.
I learned Buddhism on T17.
Next goal is to improve commerce. I went for Sailing to enable coast tiles (with +2C!!) and extra
+1F for Crab to maintain 2 Scientists.
I learned Sailing on T29.
I learned Priesthood on T36.
I built Lighthouse on T39.
I went for Buddhist Monastery to get +10% reasearch boost (12 => 13).
I learned Writing on T47.
I built Buddhist Monastery on T47.
Next goal is to defend from Axman/Spearman attacks. I enabled 2 Scientists and my research speed is +17B.
I learned Hunting on T51.
London grows to size 7.
I learned Archery on T55.
I built Library on T58.
I built one Archer on T60. No need any more. Just gave him City Harrison and Hill promotions.
I learned Masonry on T62.
I learned Polytheism on T71.
I built Oracle on T73.
With Oracle I chose "Code of Laws" and found Confucianism. 2 Shrines, isn't it beautiful, +2C per city?
Also Oracle helps with Greate Prophets needed for!!
Great Scientist born on T87.
Great Prophet born on T118.
Shrine was built on T119.
Later game isn't so interesting but I think my opening is quite strong though it employs map features and impossible to achieve with zero map knowledge.
After several playthrough I found that it is possible to withstand reliably first 70T with only 4
Warriors. One goes for Shock against Barbarian Archers, 3 others for Medics2. Medics will be useful
for a later game.
As reported earlier in this thread it is possible to found own religion in this map (we are isolated
from other AIs with mountains ridge).
While Meditation (Buddhism) is cheaper to get IA goes for Hinduism first and there is no way to
overtake Hinduism from AI as Roosevelt doesn't have Mysticism.
With little situational failgold I found I can complete Oracle reliably.
=====
The problem with thit map - early workers aren't useful as you can't defend land improvements.
Author of map stated that sea area are safe (nearby coast is blocked by icy tiles).
So it is natural to settle near coast with sea foods and Wine tile on a plain hill is best choice.
You get ciry with extra hammer and commerce (total: 2F2H2C).
Commerce is important to have time to found religion.
Another problem with map - you can't start large number of cities on Deity. I am unable to carry
early research with 3-4 cities around (( So I want to get to Writing/Currency as fast as possible to
be able to carry on research even with broken income.
=====
So I started game with plan:
* found religion (Shrine gives me +1C per city)
* get to Writing as fast as possible (Library and 2 scientist boost significantly 1 city research)
* as shorted path to Writing is via Priesthood I will have an opportunity to build Oracle
* get Mathemetics / Feudalism before building any Workers to start with +50% chop & +50% Worker speed boost
* with established economy start fog busting by building frontier cities
I moved settler to Wine plain hill near the ocean. We have good defence (+25% from hill) and
production and extra commerce.
I started with sequence: Mysticism => Meditation.
First goal is to get +2F from Crab. I made Work Boat in 6 turns with 3T forest hill.
Production was switched to Warriors. I need 4 of them.
Next goal is to get to Meditation first, so everithing is into commerce: I switched to Crab for +2C
and sea tile later when city got to size 2.
I learned Mysticism on T9.
I learned Buddhism on T17.
Next goal is to improve commerce. I went for Sailing to enable coast tiles (with +2C!!) and extra
+1F for Crab to maintain 2 Scientists.
I learned Sailing on T29.
I learned Priesthood on T36.
I built Lighthouse on T39.
I went for Buddhist Monastery to get +10% reasearch boost (12 => 13).
I learned Writing on T47.
I built Buddhist Monastery on T47.
Next goal is to defend from Axman/Spearman attacks. I enabled 2 Scientists and my research speed is +17B.
I learned Hunting on T51.
London grows to size 7.
I learned Archery on T55.
I built Library on T58.
I built one Archer on T60. No need any more. Just gave him City Harrison and Hill promotions.
I learned Masonry on T62.
I learned Polytheism on T71.
I built Oracle on T73.
With Oracle I chose "Code of Laws" and found Confucianism. 2 Shrines, isn't it beautiful, +2C per city?
Also Oracle helps with Greate Prophets needed for!!
Great Scientist born on T87.
Great Prophet born on T118.
Shrine was built on T119.
Later game isn't so interesting but I think my opening is quite strong though it employs map features and impossible to achieve with zero map knowledge.
Seems like a recipe for disaster.
Yes. It takes too long to get to Feudalism but not so long to Mathematics.
Note: This particular map ask for late workers. I see no reason for heroic fog busting to keep workers' improvement before turn 100. No need to delay workers just for the Mathematics but I see them at same time.
My opening performance is similar to others expect I can't find details if anyone went for early workers and fog busting (with goal to prevent improvements destruction, not just to reduce barbs volume). Though I haven't checked saves.
Actually I'd like to see Deity with early workers on this map. I thought about frontier cities instead of fortified archers for keeping barbs out of improvements... It's after T100 game as I see it...
Donald Duck1
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2019
- Messages
- 83
Author is wrong. In my most recent attempt, the crab resource got pillaged by a barb galley.
Spoiler :
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Last edited:
I saw this in one of my attempt. This happened because I delayed settling second coastal city. There is a coast line guarded by ice tiles from both sides. It is your responsibility to keep it out of fog to prevent galley to spawn.
Have you scouted settling area?
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