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The best trait.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Angst, Sep 19, 2007.


Which Trait is the best?

  1. Aggresive

    16 vote(s)
  2. Charismatic

    63 vote(s)
  3. Spiritual

    31 vote(s)
  4. Protective

    9 vote(s)
  5. Imperialistic

    6 vote(s)
  6. Expansive

    5 vote(s)
  7. Financial

    191 vote(s)
  8. Philosophical

    43 vote(s)
  9. Creative

    31 vote(s)
  10. Industrious

    48 vote(s)
  11. Organized

    23 vote(s)
  1. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

    Apr 9, 2005
    Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2)
    Sorting traits by tiers, I would probably say

    1. Cha, Fin, Phi
    2. Cre, Exp, Org, Spi
    3. Agg, Imp, Ind
    4. Pro

    Protective is the only trait which I consider useless. Walls and Castles are only built if I'm neighbouring an angry Monty or Ragnar, or if I've built just about everything else. Plus Drill I and CG I aren't that great, especially since fighting in your own territory means you are probably losing the war anyway.
  2. laserburn

    laserburn Chieftain

    Oct 6, 2007
    My tiers would look like this:
    1. Fin, Org, Cha
    Combinations of these are great. Hannibal is very strong, but Napoleon is unstoppable war machine.
    2. Cre, Ind, Spi, Phi
    3. Agg, Exp
    4. Imp, Pro
    I’ve always viewed Imperialistic and Protective as punishment for leaders of nations that have very powerful UU and/or UB. This is very important for the overall balance of the game, but still some leaders are too powerful.
  3. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

    Nov 29, 2005
    Riverdale, MD
    You think so? I'm not much of a warmongerer myself. I mean, I do war, but I love building a nice, well-rounded civ. I honestly think its versatility is exceeded only by financial, and, even there, creative isn't far behind, imo. It is good for consolidating land during a conquest, but its also good for pushing out your borders and increasing your culture, making aggressors' jobs more difficult. You get libraries faster, so you get a bit of a research boost early on. You get faster coliseums, which come online right about the time where city size makes happiness troublesome, and it also makes use of those cheaper libraries to help that particular problem.

    For a long time I only played random civs, but lately I've been gravitating towards leaders with the Creative trait. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll continue doing that, at least for the time being.
  4. Swein Forkbeard

    Swein Forkbeard Nintendo Fan

    Jan 13, 2007
    Hello, Sir!
    I think the double production speed of libraries should go away; Creative was good enough before that.
  5. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

    Aug 29, 2004
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    All I can think of once I saw the name of this thread was:

    Jim Halpert: Which bear is the best?

    Dwight Schrute: That's a stupid question.

    Jim: False. Black Bear.

    Dwight: That's debatable....


    [/off topic]
  6. King of Town

    King of Town Adventuring

    Apr 6, 2007
    Wilamette Valley
    @Capt Ajax... you are advertising bringing power to Rome in your Sig, and then have Hannibal as your avatar hehehehhe
  7. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Sep 2, 2006
    I would remove the Colosseum double production. It seems to make more sense to me that libraries reflect "creativity" more than gladiatorial combat.
  8. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

    Jan 19, 2002
    I don't think any trait should be nerfed, since Financial is superior to every one and it can't be nerfed. If anything, all the other traits shuold be improved. :goodjob:
  9. Permanganate

    Permanganate Chieftain

    Aug 24, 2007
    True, but not much of a nerf. Colosseums suck, so only those Creative leaders with a Colosseum UB would get hit by your small nerf...and that's only Pericles.

    Preach it! ;)
  10. Mortac

    Mortac Warlord

    Aug 15, 2006
    Karlskrona, Sweden
    I prefer Financial/Organised. Financial as best trait. So I always play Darius. Why? All that cash coming in gives me:

    -Expansion in the beginning = more cities = more of everything.
    -Boost to research (through Financial).
    -A constantly high research level at or close to 100%.

    This means I get a big nation and technologies earlier than anyone. This in turn allows me to start building wonders before anyone else, as well as building up an army that is more modern than my enemies'. Lots of cash gives you a boost in most aspects of the game.

    Yes, I love Charismatic too, but if that cash flow that Financial/Organised gives me allows me to build one more wonder, that alone might make it worth it, but it gives a whole bunch of other advantages too.
  11. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Sep 2, 2006
    That's why I advocate that solution over taking away double production libraries. Creative doesn't need nerfing.
  12. Dark_Jedi06

    Dark_Jedi06 "Deus ex Machina."

    Jul 19, 2006

    I'm a wonder-monger. :king:

    Financial was my favorite back during vanilla Civ IV, not only did you get the extra gold on plots with two but double production of Banks made things easier. :rolleyes:
  13. Esgaro

    Esgaro Chieftain

    Feb 5, 2006
    I have to go with philosophical. The ability to generate more great people earlier is a huge boon. Half-price universities are just icing on the cake. Of course, if you don't take good advantage of the trait, it won't do anything for you.

    Financial IS good, but I feel it is overrated, and often misused. Its best synnergy is with windmills, watermills, and coasts, not with cottages. A fully developed cottage with financial isn't that much different than a fully developed cottage without.

    As for industrious, you people voting for it are crazy, it isn't nearly that good. Any game in which you are able to effectively wonderspam is easy enough that you could win it without the wonders. It can be nice if you have a key wonder you want to knock out quickly, like the pyramids, but even then it seems like a waste. The half-price forges are hard to knock however.

    Charismatic is a very strong, but I feel it particularly shrines with a specialist economy. You are probably going to be running representation, so you won't have access to the easy happy boost of hereditary rule. The decreased experience required to promote troops is really the star of the show though.

    Lincoln's combo is probably one of my favorites. If only he wasn't an American leader. Now, Lincoln of Byzantium is another matter entirely.
  14. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Sep 2, 2006
    The reason why I voted Charismatic is because extra happiness always helps, no matter what kind of game you are playing, and better troops are just that: better troops. It combines so well with other traits, and the traits are never alone in Civ, they always come in twos.

    I agree with most of Esgaro's statements...although it is hard to turn down 9 commerce towns along rivers. Those just rock. However, it is useful with a number of other things...and as I have found out recently, plantations, especially sugar plantations along rivers, where you get +1 for river, +1 from plantation, and that trips the additional +1 commerce. I think adding back a double-production building to Financial wouldn't be game-breaking.

    Industrious is seriously overrated. I'll take Philosophical for a culture win any day over Industrious. And for production boosting, give me Organized: cheaper factories with cheaper courthouses as well.
  15. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

    Jul 7, 2006
    Austin, TX, USA
    I have never in over 20 BTS games had any problem with happiness outside of war, compared to which I have constant health problems. Happiness just 2-4 resources that I naturally acquire, Rep/HR, religion can handle. For health, I need to build granaries and harbors all the time. Sometimes I even beeline for Guilds for grocers!
  16. ShunNakamura

    ShunNakamura Warlord

    Jul 21, 2005

    Drago I always have happiness issues. Of course I don't whip population off very often nor do I often focus on hammers in the very beginning. Other than an early warrior my focus is workers and food. Thus if I have a food rich capital hitting 7 pop before 2000 BC is insanely easy for me. More population = more of everything. In addition if you don't want the high pop you can always go war style on people since charismatic also lends itself handily to war.

    I guess it is just me, but in my games I almost always have happy issues until late renaissance era. I always do best with charismatic thanks to the 2 extra population I can get early on. Of course I am also not fond of HR.... I don't usually have a large military... and if I do have a large military it is usually out conquering not sitting at home. Thus, until late renaissance I usually won't garner all that many happy faces from it.
  17. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

    Oct 19, 2007
    Definatly Financial . That extra commerce makes things a lot smoother . Say your near a coast . Say you have 5 coast tiles generating 2 Commerce each . now if your financial your generating 3 commerce each . When added together , your generating 5 more commerce than non-financial civs which goes A LONG WAY. Thats like having your own private gold mine to go along with those sea tiles . Add colossus to that and well ..... you get the picture .

    Commerce is EVERYTHING , thats the meat and guts of the game . Without commerce you can't DEVELOPE and ADVANCE properly .

    My personal favorite is Darius ( Fin/Org) the ultimate economic player .

    - The free commerce buffs ( read above for importance)
    - Saving money on civics
    - Able to construct LIGHTHOUSES , FACTORIES , and COURTHOUSES faster which directly reflect your funds in their own way .

    - His UB , Apothecary , functions like a market but gives +2 health bonuses ( basically another aqueduct ) giving him a piece of the EXP trait and letting him pump out two merchant specialists .

    - His UU , the Immortal , the ultimate unit for early gameplay .

    With Fin/Org , you can pretty much dictate how you want to play the game , war or peace , you'll be successful if you know how to capitalize on his traits .

    Btw , a recent second favorite of mine thats emerging is totally different from FIN/ORG ( probably my two favorite traits) , its Augustus . IMP/IND , a whole different style of gameplay . But if you think about it , heh , they work awesome together .
  18. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

    Oct 24, 2006
    Voted Charismatic, the reasons it's great have been covered thoroughly by other people in this topic.

    So instead I'll post here to smack around the Industrious haters. It's not my top trait, but it is up there.

    On lower levels, it allows you to wonderspam. You can get almost all of them without a big hit to your overall production, and those bonuses really add up. Great for your score too.

    On higher difficulty levels, a non-industrious leader will be extremely hard pressed to get any wonders, period, unless he has the special resources for it, something you can't count on because A) they might not be there or B) they might be surrounded by crummy land, when on those levels you need your early cities to be placed on either great land or by a resource you NEED to survive. So if you want a guaranteed shot at some of the excellent wonders, industrious will save your bacon. Hopefully, if you've worked your way to Emperor or whatnot, you're good enough to know that not all wonders are created equal, that different situations call for different ones, and that rushing a couple with Industrious can do you so much good.

    Cheap forges are a pretty meh bonus though.
  19. LAnkou

    LAnkou Breizh A Tao

    Sep 12, 2005
    Paris, première ville bretonne
    I voted for Creative because i really think that it's the best to my playstyle...

    At the moment, the best trait are voted:

    I admit to be quite surprised to see aggressive so low on the scale. Maybe because it's definitely a warmonger trait and there are a lot more of builders than warmonger...
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Sep 2, 2006
    I agree. I think Industrious is a little overrated on this scale; whenever I go for a culture victory, I've found the Philosophical trait for the Great Artists far more valuable than Industrious. I am unable to describe how much easier it was for me to win by using artist specialists and getting great artists than it was by trying to build wonders. And besides, if you have the double production resource for the wonder, it goes up pretty quick anyway.

    Organized should also be a lot higher on this scale...I think a lot of people are playing on low difficulty and not appreciating the civics upkeep cutting goodness that is the Organized trait. And quick courthouses and factories? Who doesn't love this trait?

    I'm also surprised to see Expansive so low. I would say when it was just the +2 health per city and quick granaries/harbors, I was able to discount it. But, now with healthiness being a much larger problem in BtS, combined with the fact that it gets quick workers, I would put Expansive a notch or two higher on my personal list.

    Imperialistic, though, has always been the most difficult trait for me to utilize. I guess I'm just not an Imp player. :)

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