The Boeing Thread

[Akka]

In French media, Airbus managers always express their concerns about Boeing problems. They have many suppliers in common, therefore they are indirectly affected by supply chain disruptions. Also internally they are obsessed by the fear to face similar issues as Boeing and they aren't immune from that risk. Also they're convinced that if that would be the case, that would kill them faster than Boeing.

Good. If they are afraid of such issues, it means they are more likely to take measures to not face them.
I've never paid attention to whichever plane I was using during my travels. From now on, I think I'll check the "not Boeing" option.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

Major airlines want to hear how Boeing plans to fix problems in the manufacturing of its planes
The heads of leading U.S. airlines want to meet with Boeing and hear the aircraft manufacturer’s strategy for fixing quality-control problems that have gained attention since a panel blew out of an Alaska Airlines jetliner in January, people familiar with the situation said Thursday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/21/boeing-planes-breakdown-latest-00148409

The sales reps from 3M will also be there to offer their solution.

 

[EvaDK]

^ Understandable considering the testimony of the NSBT chair person before a US Senate hearing about the Alaska Airlines accident.

It starts 10 mins in, but the whole video is worth your attention.

 

[Crezth]

Major airlines want to hear how Boeing plans to fix problems in the manufacturing of its planes
The heads of leading U.S. airlines want to meet with Boeing and hear the aircraft manufacturer’s strategy for fixing quality-control problems that have gained attention since a panel blew out of an Alaska Airlines jetliner in January, people familiar with the situation said Thursday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/21/boeing-planes-breakdown-latest-00148409

The sales reps from 3M will also be there to offer their solution.

Customerization from the gang responsible for the “80% of a metal tube is still a metal tube” philosophy of fuselage assembly. You love to see it honestly.

 

[Joij21]

Not enough competition! There I said it! All the aerospace companies are corrupt monopolies or operate as cartels within an oligopoly.

Trust bust them! Problem solved! NEXT!!!

 

[Kaitzilla]

^ Understandable considering the testimony of the NSBT chair person before a US Senate hearing about the Alaska Airlines accident.

It starts 10 mins in, but the whole video is worth your attention.

Ya, 11:18 and onwards is pretty amazing.

The CEO of Boeing David Calhoun will resign at the end of the year.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/25/boeing-ceo-calhoun-resignation-00148782

Boeing’s CEO David Calhoun on Monday announced he would leave the company, the latest fallout for the planemaker amid multiple federal probes into its practices following a 737 MAX door blowout in January.

The aerospace company also announced that Stanley Deal, the head of Boeing’s commercial airplanes, would retire. Stephanie Pope, the company’s chief operating officer, will replace Deal effective immediately. Calhoun will exit his position by year’s end.

A few days ago the Chairman of the Board met with airlines instead of the CEO.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-airline-ceos-request-meeting-with-boeing-board-address-production-problems-2024-03-21/

WASHINGTON/CHICAGO, March 21 (Reuters) - Major airline chiefs plan to hold discussions with Boeing (BA.N), opens new tab board chair Larry Kellner in meetings that will not include CEO David Calhoun after raising concerns over an Alaska Airlines mid-air emergency and ongoing production issues, sources said.
A group of U.S. airline CEOs sought meetings with Boeing directors to express concern over the Alaska Airlines (ALK.N), opens new tab 737 MAX 9 accident, the Wall Street Journal reported earlier, saying it was an unusual sign of frustration with the manufacturer's problems and its leader Calhoun.
An airline source familiar with the meetings told Reuters the carriers wanted to raise concerns directly with Kellner, who previously served as the CEO of Continental Airlines, and understands their frustration with ongoing delays and quality issues.

The Chairman is out too!

Boeing’s board chairman, Larry Kellner, is not opting to run for reelection to the board, Calhoun said. The board has elected board member Steve Mollenkopf to succeed Kellner, and will lead the board’s process of selecting Boeing’s next CEO.

Shareholders should continue to prune the leaders with a C at the front of their job title, but at least this is something.
The government will support Boeing no matter how many people they involuntarily plant in the ground.

 

[innonimatu]

I think this story may be of interest. Did people in Boeing's management, or other parties thinking to defend Boeint, go as far as order a hit on a witness that could lead to their prosecution?

People so often get suicided in very suspicious circunstaces without much interest by authorities in investigating afterwards...

 

[Hygro]

I think this story may be of interest. Did people in Boeing's management, or other parties thinking to defend Boeint, go as far as order a hit on a witness that could lead to their prosecution?

People so often get suicided in very suspicious circunstaces without much interest by authorities in investigating afterwards...

Good article.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I think this story may be of interest. Did people in Boeing's management, or other parties thinking to defend Boeint, go as far as order a hit on a witness that could lead to their prosecution?

People so often get suicided in very suspicious circunstaces without much interest by authorities in investigating afterwards...

That is a good article.

I think that the whistleblower probably did commit suicide.
His wife died of brain cancer 2 years ago, and testifying against a giant evil corporation is very stressful.
They put hundreds of people into the graveyard and never spent a second in jail.
Nothing he said in testimony would make that happen either.

Could Boeing management have done it?
Sure.
It would be stupid to have an ex-military or agency do it over a fever dream of getting jail time.
But they also waged a war against their own safety inspectors which is monumentally stupid.

I won't fly on any Boeing plane made after the year 2011 if I can help it.
The older ones are probably safe.
RIP Swampy.

 

[EvaDK]

Any news on what is to happen with the FAA?

Clearly the system in place today in which FAA basically rubber stamps Boeing inspecting themselves, isn't working.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

In debates like this it's often useful to have some historical perspective. Here's an article from 24 July 2000...

Boeing engineer makes opening doors easier
The latest winner of the Royal Aeronautical Society's BWO Townshend Award, Boeing engineer Jim Hutton, is a man who can open doors easily... and in future, so will airline passengers.

Hutton won the award for his role in leading the design and development of a new automatic over-wing exit door that can be opened more rapidly in case of an emergency on the ground. The new door is standard on Next Generation 737s. Operation of the automatic over-wing exit is fully intuitive. Upon opening, it automatically opens outward and swings up, out of the way of passengers. The new design allowed Boeing to achieve certification from the Joint Aviation Authority for maximum passenger capacities for the Next-Generation 737.

Boeing engineer makes opening doors easier

www.flightglobal.com

Yup, "fully intuitive".

 

[Kaitzilla]

I have fewer concerns with older models since they have flown for years or decades with good safety records. Not "zero" concerns, but fewer than the MAX. I would also have concerns with United given how many issues they've been having (including with a "Scarebus" in one of the articles Kaitzilla linked), but I haven't flown with them in well over a decade due to customer-service-related corporate management reasons.

Ya, United Airlines seems to have most of the problems lately.

22 people injured as Boeing 787 hit by ‘extreme turbulence’ & forced to land

TWENTY-TWO people aboard a Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner have been injured after reportedly experiencing “extreme turbulence” mid-air. The plane, operated by United Airlines, was forced to m…

www.the-sun.com

United Boeing 777 forced to return to airport as 'poo flowed into cabin'

A BOEING Pilot was forced to make a return to the airport after a foul smell from a broken toilet filled the entire cabin. United Airlines flight 59, scheduled to reach San Francisco, circled over …

www.the-sun.com

 

[Kaitzilla]

Any news on what is to happen with the FAA?

Clearly the system in place today in which FAA basically rubber stamps Boeing inspecting themselves, isn't working.

Latest thing I can find is the FAA top person did an interview with Lester Holt about 2 weeks ago on March 14th.

 

[EvaDK]

^ Feels like a PR stunt to me, to show Americans that the FAA still exist and has purpose.

I would want to hear from even higher ups; new legislation and regulation of the aviation industry on a political level. But I doubt it will happen.

 

[PhroX]

The FAA is stuck with two potentially contradictory aims: to make air travel safe, and to promote the US air travel industry. Now throw in regualtory capture and underfunding, and it's a mess.

 

[EvaDK]

The FAA is stuck with two potentially contradictory aims: to make air travel safe, and to promote the US air travel industry. Now throw in regualtory capture and underfunding, and it's a mess.

Formulated like this, I'd say that the 2nd aim is likely accomplished by achieving the 1st aim.

But people focused on their job security and personal bonuses, might not agree.

 

[PhroX]

Formulated like this, I'd say that the 2nd aim is likely accomplished by achieving the 1st aim.

But people focused on their job security and personal bonuses, might not agree.

Yep. And because said people who care about their bonuses are often the very same ones involved in the regulatory capture I mentioned, the problems become increasingly clear...

 

[Crezth]

Any news on what is to happen with the FAA?

Clearly the system in place today in which FAA basically rubber stamps Boeing inspecting themselves, isn't working.

The “news” here is that the FAA is perennially backlogged and has gone from relying on licensed certification middlemen to no inspectors at all because Boeing used its reputation to insist that mechanics could review their own work. This was over ten years ago. If the FAA has to revoke Boeing’s trust, and certainly FAA heads are being grilled for exactly that, they also have to admit they can’t really do Boeing’s job for them and that the hundreds of billions which taxpayers spent paying Boeing’s owners definitely should have been spent on regulation instead.

Honestly with the financial crunch I don’t see the FAA rallying in any way shape or form on this. Where do they begin? Inspection. Who does inspections? Who indeed? We have severely under cultivated our inspectors general. Boeing itself is now a source of septic talent on all of these questions especially guaranteeing safety. This is like learning someone pissed in the pot.

Actually it’s like learning someone pissed in the pot, asking them not to do that, them saying it wasn’t them before pissing in it again and admitting it, and then you make them promise not to piss in the pot, then you keep finding piss in there for the next five years.

 

[Lexicus]

The “news” here is that the FAA is perennially backlogged and has gone from relying on licensed certification middlemen to no inspectors at all because Boeing used its reputation to insist that mechanics could review their own work. This was over ten years ago. If the FAA has to revoke Boeing’s trust, and certainly FAA heads are being grilled for exactly that, they also have to admit they can’t really do Boeing’s job for them and that the hundreds of billions which taxpayers spent paying Boeing’s owners definitely should have been spent on regulation instead.

Honestly with the financial crunch I don’t see the FAA rallying in any way shape or form on this. Where do they begin? Inspection. Who does inspections? Who indeed? We have severely under cultivated our inspectors general. Boeing itself is now a source of septic talent on all of these questions especially guaranteeing safety. This is like learning someone pissed in the pot.

Actually it’s like learning someone pissed in the pot, asking them not to do that, them saying it wasn’t them before pissing in it again and admitting it, and then you make them promise not to piss in the pot, then you keep finding piss in there for the next five years.

Moreover you have a current House majority that is, uh, *checks notes* blaming DEI for these problems.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Emergency landing for Southwest Airlines today.
Boeing 737-800 from 2015.

Southwest Emergency Landing Follows Engine Cover Ripping Off Plane (Watch)

A mechanical issue forced a Southwest flight to return to Denver on Sunday morning.

www.forbes.com

Engine cover ripped off and was banging on the flap.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777018698345120211