The Chronicles of the Next Empire

[ruff_hi]

The following information has been leaked to the press ...

Greetings,

We at WEGD take our international relationships seriously. We have been considering your communication regarding espionage and we wanted to actively discuss this with you. We would point out the following blog post by a leading political professor (naturally, he is WEGD) ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10780269&postcount=40

WEGD would like to offer the following agreement:

• Both parties agree to open borders (non military free rights of entry)
• Both parties agree to a Non Aggression Pact (no war declarations, no aggressive espionage, no assisting others in war against each other, etc)

REDACTED

The alternative to this agreement would be that you continue to see yourself as the wronged party, start planning an invasion of a civilization especially designed for defense and potentially suffer crippling aggressive espionage if war eventuates between us.

Regards,

WEGD

Your proposal has a lot of merit. We ask for 24 hrs to discuss these matters within the Calanthian government.

Some quick comments :

• Stealing technology will be considered hostile.
• We have no obligation of letting spies assess our troops / navies.
• We have more trouble of the trading which evolves from signing an open borders agreement: it will be VERY much in WEGD favour.

These are issues which should be resolved (and can be).

REDACTED We also assess a war between our states as harmful to both of us:

we are too much of similar power, so it would become a war of attrition; and we don’t want that.

Sincerely, Iskander..

my whole game (leader and civ selection) was built around stealing tech from the tech leader. That is you. I will be doing it.

Ruff

The absolute maximum I can offer you to prevent this thing from spiraling out of control is the following:

• You may steal ONE TECH: only NON MILITARY with a maximum worth of 1000 tech bulbs
• REDACTED
• You may spy on my troops, but no other spy missions except the above mentioned one TECH STEALING
• No open borders will be signed

Otherwise we will take countermeasures, and with these countermeasures you WILL be hurt as least as much as you hurt me.
And then it will be hard not to let this thing spiral out of control to a full blown war.

That is not working. My game is about stealing techs. I will be stealing techs from you. It doesn't hurt you. I have offered no aggressive spy actions which you have turned down. What is to come is totally of your own making.

Ruff

 

[Calanthian]

Well if you disclose written communication, then do it entirely..

Let it be known to the world that we Calanthians have been more than reasonable.

We do not want war. Still peace has a chance.

But we will not sit idly when the fruits of our labour are stolen from us.
We don't want to encourage the growth of parasital actions.

We even offered to allow a tech of 1000 bulbs to be stolen from us without any counteraction. And a NAP until turn 240.
While we have no objections to show we have not been preparing for an invasion, as our troops are merely defensive..




The (fully disclosed) communication from last to first:

That is not working. My game is about stealing techs. I will be stealing techs from you. It doesn't hurt you. I have offered no aggressive spy actions which you have turned down. What is to come is totally of your own making.

Ruff


*********************************************************
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 2:17 PM, wrote:
The absolute maximum I can offer you to prevent this thing from spiraling out of control is the following:

• You may steal ONE TECH: only NON MILITARY with a maximum worth of 1000 tech bulbs
• An official, openly published NAP till turn 240, cancellation period of 10 turns
• You may spy on my troops, but no other spy missions except the above mentioned one TECH STEALING
• No open borders will be signed

Otherwise we will take countermeasures, and with these countermeasures you WILL be hurt as least as much as you hurt me.
And then it will be hard not to let this thing spiral out of control to a full blown war.

**********************************
Van: Ruff.Hi
Verzonden: vrijdag 12 augustus 2011 23:01
Onderwerp: Re: Next Empire

my whole game (leader and civ selection) was built around stealing tech from the tech leader. That is you. I will be doing it.

Ruff
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 3:48 PM, :

OOC: Just arrived back home from holliday..

IC:


Your proposal has a lot of merit. We ask for 24 hrs to discuss these matters within the Calanthian government.

Some quick comments :

• Stealing technology will be considered hostile.
• We have no obligation of letting spies assess our troops / navies.
• We have more trouble of the trading which evolves from signing an open borders agreement: it will be VERY much in WEGD favour.

These are issues which should be resolved (and can be).
The NAP, until turn 200, is viewed favorably. We also assess a war between our states as harmful to both of us:
we are too much of similar power, so it would become a war of attrition; and we don’t want that.

Sincerely, Iskander..

*********************************************
Van: Ruff.Hi
Verzonden: vrijdag 12 augustus 2011 20:38
Onderwerp: Next Empire

Greetings,

We at WEGD take our international relationships seriously. We have been considering your communication regarding espionage and we wanted to actively discuss this with you. We would point out the following blog post by a leading political professor (naturally, he is WEGD) ...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10780269&postcount=40

WEGD would like to offer the following agreement:
• Both parties agree to open borders (non military free rights of entry)
• Both parties agree to a Non Aggression Pact (no war declarations, no aggressive espionage, no assisting others in war against each other, etc)
The agreement would be binding to at least turn 200 with a minimum cancellation period of 10 turns (ie if you want to cancel it on T230, you must notify the other party by T220).

The alternative to this agreement would be that you continue to see yourself as the wronged party, start planning an invasion of a civilization especially designed for defense and potentially suffer crippling aggressive espionage if war eventuates between us.

Regards,

WEGD

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Handbags.

Sent.

 

[ruff_hi]

But we will not sit idly when the fruits of our labour are stolen from us.

Can you explain just how you are deprived of the fruits of your labour if WEGD steals a tech from you? Do you not have the tech anymore? Is there something that you could do before it was stolen that you cannot do after?

 

[Calanthian]

Let me explain:
if it would be a normal thing to do, it wouldn't be called stealing technology, wouldn't it..

Once again: there is still time for peace..

 

[ruff_hi]

ok, I see ... you cannot come up with a way of saying that stealing tech will deprive you of anything.

 

[Calanthian]

The whole point of researching technology is that leads to new capabilities which increase the chance once's civilization survives / wins.

If someones steals tech then he decreases that chance, so stealing tech deprives the one from which it is stolen from the most important thing:
the chance of survival / winning.

 

[ruff_hi]

The whole point of researching technology is that leads to new capabilities which increase the chance once's civilization survives / wins.

If someones steals tech then he decreases that chance, so stealing tech deprives the one from which it is stolen from the most important thing:
the chance of survival / winning.

Ahh - I see. So if I research the technology myself, that also deprives you of, or reduces, your chance of survival / winning ... so technology research is also an aggressive act. Other leaders in this land should note this new attitude from the Calanthians.

 

[Calanthian]

Twisting words..

(and skillfull also, making it sound like I am the bad guy, while you are announcing you are going to steal tech)

 

[ruff_hi]

yep - sure have. I have told you that I am going to steal tech from you ... an action that does you no harm. I have offered you a deal where I do not perform aggressive acts of espionage ... which you have turned down (as is your right). It is currently not my intention to declare war on you, nor is it my intention to perform aggressive acts of espionage against you while we are at peace. In this regard, you hold your own fate.

 

[ruff_hi]

And so the world as we know it continues ... nations strive against each other, they grow, they prosper. The bounty of the world rewards each nation in its turn.

In one particular nation, The Western Expanse ... where the Ghost Dancers enjoy life, multiple rewards were allotted to them. Their ruler designed palace and had his trusty workers construct it in record time. The whole nation was amazed and people started to refer to this time as a golden period.



It was while this golden age was continuing that a secretive scientist finally gauged that the people were ready for his discovery. He recently announced this to the WEGD people and is planning an event where he will reveal this knowledge.



Meanwhile - there are rumors of war in the far North West.

 

[ruff_hi]

Meanwhile - there are rumors of war in the far North West.

It seems that a border dispute has broken out between the Western Expanse and the Dutch. Even the name of the incident (border dispute, pre-emptive action, full on invasion, call it what you will) is under dispute. While the Ghost Dancers cannot tell other nations what to do, it should be remembered that this is not an exercise nor live fire training - this is a real war and lives have been lost on both sides.

Nations sending non combat scouts or single combat observers should plan accordingly.

Nations sending heavily armed contingencies should rethink their approach as accidents can happen in these confusing and tense situations.

 

[Calanthian]

Formal dispatch from our most noble ruler Iskander Meriones:

"
France has offered to become my vassal.
With hesitation I have accepted, as we knew this would result in war with the Western Expanse (ooc: Ruff Hi).

With our action we try to reach a new status quo.
The offensive actions of the Western Expense against smaller states can not be tolerated any longer.
In the name of justice Calanthe interfered in this conflict.
We have shown our capabilites by liberating the formerly dutch city of Maastricht.

On the other hand: we do not want this war.

So therefore I call upon the Western Expanse to cease all hostilities and to sign a non-aggression pact for 50 turns.
"

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Dude, don't do that, I've just DoW'd ruff so he is at war with everyone now.

 

[Calanthian]

An urgent dispatch has just reached Iskander Meriones.
The Paradignians also concluded that this injustice needs to be stopped.

Therefore we await a ground breaking proposal of the Western Expanse..

 

[ruff_hi]

btw - what is the stance of the Iskander Meriones and the Paradignians v the Dutch? They are down to one (1) remaining city. Is it best if they join the English and get subsumed into a stronger nation?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Someone needs to put him out of his misery. Rickety can't be enjoying it much

 

[ruff_hi]

Let me see if I can explain the hidden truths in this clever piece of Calanthian PR ...

France has offered to become my vassal.
With hesitation I have accepted, as we knew this would result in war with the Western Expanse.

It is common knowledge that France was seeking a 'master' two turns ago. It is our understanding that the Calanthian's deliberately delayed accepting their vassal offer by a turn or two so that they could maximize their own gain in the situation (ie marshaling units to attack and kill GD units and taking for their own 'Maastricht'). They have sent no units to help France. They have let the French capital of Paris fall. What other 'benefits' does this new vassal arrangement bring you? Is France gifting you their Great People too?

With our action we try to reach a new status quo.

That is, Calanthian picking up old Dutch cities for almost zero expenditure.

We have shown our capabilities by liberating the formerly dutch city of Maastricht.

'Liberating' is the wrong word. They kept the city. That is called occupation with the hope that the GDs will do the Calanthian's dirty work for them and totally subsume the Dutch. If the Calanthian's meant liberating, they would have returned the city to Dutch control. I am sure that was an option presented to them by the leaders of that city.

On the other hand: we do not want this war.

No, you don't want this war ... you just want to profit from it. So far you have acquired two ex-Dutch cities for the cost of ... what? 1 gold piece?

 

[ruff_hi]

Now – with that said and part of the truth revealed. The GDs are willing to cease all units currently pushing into France and to work towards a formal border agreement with Calanthia and France. The WE would expect the return of Maastricht.

 

[ruff_hi]

Finally, the next turn should see the end of the Dutch. They have agreed to join the great nation of the WE.

Spoiler :

no we haven't QUIET!

Let's see if we can return this world to a fully peaceful stance after that.