The Classic Maya

[The Last Conformist]

For various reasons, I've not been able to work much on the scenario lately, but I should get up an update towards the weekend, which will have some gfx updates as well as considerable improvements to the 'Pedia.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Some previews of new gfx in the upcoming version:

 

[The Last Conformist]

Version 0.7 is up!

Apart from new gfx - see the post above for a little preview -, the chief change in this version is that the 'Pedia has been substantially fleshed out. In particular, all techs have custom entries now. There might be some glitches yet - please tell me if you find any.

There are also some game-play tweaks. You'll encounter a number of new barbarian groups; Hondo and Belize in the east, Lowlanders in the central part of the map, and Coba in the northeastern Yucatan. Some Highlanders in the southwest have been reassigned as Motagua Valley.

More importantly, the Mexicans have been rejigged a bit. They are now more aggressive (2 -> 4), but their cities are not quite so rich anymore. Hopefully, this should mean they are a bit less of a cultural powerhouse (and don't build quite so many wonders), but engage more often in war. In my tests, at least, they've mostly stayed very peaceful; a bit too peaceful, I think.

 

[Plotinus]

I shall give it a go!

Did you have any success with recolouring army units?

 

[LouLong]

774 : As usual, reinforcing Ixlu while weakening Uaxactun make Calakmul divert and turn East !
Caracol start Great Pyramid
Capture La Milpa but a few Ajaws are not far, besides I am now in direct contact with Palenque.
776 : la Milpa holds during the counter-attack !
Palenque and Piedras Negras sign peace
minor skirmishes in the north bewteen stacks of ajaws
Palenque enters la Milpa borders --> Piedras Negras redeclare on them
778 : Calakmul sends in a stack of 16 ajaws + 1 JT + other minor stacks of 2. One such small group destroyed.
Get a new army
Palenque start Great Pyramid
780 : of course Calakmul get a new army too and shows it off !
Major attack. I am open for counter-attack but I kill 13 ajaws + JT + anotehr small stack of 2
Calakmul still refuse to talk.
Copan proposes peace for worker, 8g, 3gpt... well I accept.
Caracol and Palenque sign TE vs me + military alliance vs Piedras Negras... :-(((
Calakmul counter-attack costs me 2 ajaws + 1 guardian, 1 1HP ajaw suicides himself on my troops.
I am now at war with Caracol (who attacked Piedras Negras). Arghhh ! So fast !
782 : kill Calakmul army but lose one of my own doing so
I am getting backwards in points and decide to start sacrificing workers (last 2 turns especially got me quite a few).
Only 3 ajaws remain of the massive Calakmul attack
I lower tech rate (although I am a bit late as well, everybody has Pyramids and navigation) to get the money to upgrade defenders vs the Caracol as they are quite obsolete right now.
784 : some more Calakmul cleaning.
Mexico and Palenque sign against us
Calakmul kill my last army by a good (and lucky) move.
Copan attack Piedras Negras --> at war with me Man I attract problems !
786 More combats. Calakmul sends new troops against Ixlu. Other groups of ajaws (usually East) are dead.
End of MPP with Piedras Negras (but a tad too late).
Mex start Kaloonte'lel

 

[LouLong]

BTW think I am playing at Emperor (usually my level for scenarios) but of course there might have been previous settings I forgot to change.

788 :
Caracol ready to capture my Southern city (the one with 2 precious feathers !)
Sign RoP with Piedras Negras.
Uolantun captured (no surprise, I just had a 1.2.1 defender and of course no barracks).
Palenque start Kaloonte'lel
792 Heavy pressure on Yaxha
Sign peace with Calakmul and Palenque. My treasury goes down for Palenque is greedy (Calakmul actually gives me some).
Tonina threatens me (14g + TM) : OK
Calakmul redeclares...... ???!!! They are mean by nature or what ?
794 : Total War --> Pyramids (obviouly with no access to the sea, navigation is pretty useless).
Happiness pb (loss of precious feathers).
Raze Pomoy from Calakmul and kill 1st Calakmul raider.
Failed to kill Caracol army that retreats with 1 HP.
Not enough workers to get a one city cultural victory. It will be though...
796 : try to use my first raiders against huge Caracol stacks (they had been building up for quite some time).
End of GA
Everybody else start Kaloonte'lel
798 : some more skirmishes. The raiders haven't proved very good yet (they usually retreat but only do limited damages).
800 : kill Caracol army but a new wave of Yajwas this time approach and my army is pretty thin.
802 I raze Tre Islas from Calakmul
I am now leading in points and culture
806 Seibal captured by Caracol (I do only some rear-guard fighting).
Tonina start Glyphic Staircase.
Calakmul sent in discreetly some troops and raze Uaxactun ! They thus take the lead in points.
810 : sign peace with Mexico for total war
sign peace with Copan and war/ Caracol
sign Tonina vs Calakmul
812 : Tonina + Copan sign vs Caracol and peace with Piedras Negras.
Huge stack of Caracol Ajaws capture Xultun.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Did you have any success with recolouring army units?

No. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if PSP isn't up to the task.

If you'd want to give it a try, I'd be most thankful. I think the Industrial Army is closest in colour to the Mayan King.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Thanks for the rapport LL.

So Calakmul uses Raiders? That's good news, because I rarely see any AI Raiders in my games. They're pretty good at killing off Ajaws and Yajaw K'ak's in the open, but not much good at attacking cities. (What Vanilla cavalry should have been, I suppose.)

Pyramids double the culture from sacrifice. Might be a good idea to build one in Tikal.

Navigation is pretty useless for Tikal, yes. The only area that's likely to see any naval or amphibious warfare to speak of is Belize.

 

[LouLong]

Yep, was too late for me to build a Pyramid (late in tech and war on all fronts !). I just saw 2 Calakmul raiders. AI otherwise only built Yajaws...


814 : Pyramids --> Prophecy. However I need so badly military units I don't build any pyramid.
Recapture Xultun but no for long (mostly to get some prisoners back).
Xultun recaptured by Calakmul...
816 : recapture Uolantun (important as it has 2 precisou feathers, albeit one is cut).
I sign peace with Caracol, no point in trying to get other cities back.
Palenque sign war with Copan vs me.
Palenque sign Tonina vs me...
Mex + Palenque vs Piedras Negras (who seem to have pbs on their own).
820 : end of Palenque + Caracol vs me TE
Got leader in La Milpa
Palenque declares on Caracol
826 : Mex + Calakmul vs Tonina
Copanec start Glyphic Staircase
828 : Kill 5 Calakmul Yajaws N Tikal + 1 near La Milpa but nearly lost my army there. They still refuse to talk.
Piedras Negras don't renex RoP.
Calakmul counter-attack is bloody as there are no borders there anymore so his ajaws can get my raiders.
Tonina finish Great Pyramid.

 

[LouLong]

830 : Palenque had gathered a massive force for Machaquila (cf. screenshot)
Calakmul recapture La Milpa
Caracol and Palenque start Glyphic Staircase
Palenque's troops go back South (against someone else I guess).
Mex finishes Kaloonte'lel
Caracol fortifies ajaws in my territory (south towards Copan).
832 : Kill Calakmul guardian and settler (I wanted to try and settle there again myself). Send the setler (just ready this turn).
Palenque pillages my spices
Caracol finishes Glyphic Staircase and sends other troops in my territory (??)
834 : sign expensive peace with Palenque who are very strong.
Clean former Uaxactun area of Yajaws to try and settle there.
Calakmul kills my army in the West.
Caracol just crosses South to Copan.
836 : Sign expensive peace with Tonina
Build Zacpeten on former Uaxactun.
Piedras Negras sign peace with Copan and Mexico.

 

[LouLong]

From now on I don't do much except try to sign peace and build Pyramids even though I know it is too late.

840 : Failed counter-attack on La Milpa
Protect Zacpeten (clean the area) and sign peace with Calakmul
Palenque demands TM, sure.
Copan capture worker in south (first time they come in so close).
Many civs sign peace
842 : Copan don't want peace but mostly fights against Caracol so that's OK.
844 : Stop Copan attack (too bad these raiders don't capture prisonners as they make the bulk of my offense since I have different fronts).
Mex declares war on Caracol.
Calakmul sign with Mex vs Caracol.
850 : who cares ? The human folly should be forgotten soon enough under the jungle.

I lose (BTW about the duration, I probably left the game open at some times !)

 

[The Last Conformist]

Raiders don't capture? That would be a bug.

 

[LouLong]

Well, I am not a top-level player, did not know the rules and always seem to get the gang against me (when I simply don't forget to sell techs around)... but anyway it is not that easy.
The initial slowness gave way to extremely active and threatening warfare. And playing one of the two central civs (Piedras Negras and Tikal) is even less so because it seems everyobdy wants a crack at you and the lack of fast units until late makes it difficult to fight on more than 1 front.

Apart from 2 raiders I saw, the AI only built Ajaws.

 

[The Last Conformist]

If you think Tikal is hard, try Toniná.

The easiest civ is probably Calakmul. They start with five cities, almost as many units as Tikal, and have only barbarians to their north. Decent access to luxuries too. On Monarch I find them too easy to be much fun.

The new version has the costs of early techs drastically slashed compared to the version you played, as well as more barbs and more useful Scouts.

I'll have to do something about the Raiders. 6.1.2 might have to be it.

If you wait a bit, I'll put up a beta^2 patch today that fixes the raider - you can be the first to play it, if you want.

 

[The Last Conformist]

OK, here's a biq with the Raider corrected and with its attack increased to six.

 

[LouLong]

Raiders don't capture? That would be a bug.

They can actually "capture". I actually meant "enslave". Maybe they can bu I never saw it happening (and I did a pretty decent amount of fighting with them).

The scenario is not unwinnable, it is just if you play one of the two central civs you are in for a lot of trouble.
Of course if you play human Tonina you might have lots of problems too but while Tikal could have conquered Tonina easily at the beginning, I was so often under attack that I could hardly ever put a decent formation ready for a real invasion of any place, which means Tonina for instance increased a lot lot while I could not grow that much.

I will wait a bit to replay it and take a look at Rambuchan's scenario first. This one has been long for lack of time and a tad tedious writing down everything.
Hope it helps (agreesivity level,...) at least, even though you already went to 0.7b since the version I used. Altogether tech-wise everybody was kind of at the same level except I declined at the end since I could not trade with anybody and needed money for lux or my troops. I REALLY felt like a sieged castle !

And BTW I am pretty sure the AI used some sacrificing as most just captured cities quickly got a +10 culture so I guess that means at least one worker was sacrificed in those. But I don't think they were used for trying to go for 1 city cultural victory.

 

[The Last Conformist]

They're supposed to be able to enslave too - cf the 'Pedia - but they actually could not. Fixed in the biq I put up.

The AI sacrifices workers to get border expansions, yes. In fact, it seems to sacrifice most enslaved workers, since it rarely has many around. It does not, however, concentrate them in one city to get a one-city cultural victory.

The problem with Toniná is not so much that you get attacked by everyone (altho that will happen if you screw up your diplomacy - you're pretty much surrounded by Palenque, Piedras Negras, and Mexico), but that it's hard to catch up before some AI or another wins by VP or culture.

 

[LouLong]

Maybe make raiders 6 in attack as you did but with 1 HP malus ?

 

[The Last Conformist]

i) I don't like HP bonos/malos*.
ii) That would effectively make them weaker than they are now.

I think I'll see how they work as 6.1.2 with no HP +/- before changing anything else.


* That's accusative plural for you!

 

[LouLong]

Why not ?
IMHO that is a great way of having a wider choice of stats. For instance it allows a both stronger in attack but not so resilient a unit (and that fits raider well if I got the idea right).
Is it because you feel the AI cannot use them properly ?

Latin : malus is an adjective so the plural form depends on the noun. Malum (the noun) would be mala.... IIRC.