The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[AceNsh]

try to play this scenario without ever having a major world war.

Try to have peace and keep turn times under 30 minutes. Anything over 5 minutes fits my definition of unplayable or atleast not enjoyable.

CIV is not like Generals. Its not a war game. It can be if you want it to be but for me the beauty lies in the subtleties rather than taking 30 tank divisions and 50 F111 and destroying the transport network of the WP and rendering their economy incapable of producing anything.

I am not being critical of you. I am being critical of the platform. You have obviously given much though and time to this scenario and I appreciate it.

There is no concept of MAD in this game and that is just stupid given that doctrine was used throughout the Cold War. I shouldnt really see conflicts in Europe but more in Korea, Argentina, Afghanistan, Cuba etc. etc. These should have a certain chance of leading to larger wars but otherwise keep local.

I am sure you have done the best given the architecture of CIV III.

Endless or cyclic war is not how the cold war should look like.

 

[El Justo]

try to play this scenario without ever having a major world war.

i have gone 10+ yrs w/out firing a single shot.

Try to have peace and keep turn times under 30 minutes. Anything over 5 minutes fits my definition of unplayable or atleast not enjoyable.

this is your opinion

mutually assured destruction most certainly is in this game. i've seen the AI launch a nuclear attack only once ever in this scenario. of course, i never use nukes but what do you expect if you launch them your self? the AI to just sit there and take it?

i'm sorry if you don't like the way this scenario plays or feels...my recommendation to you would be to try and make one for yourself before nit-picking.

 

[warmwaffles]

I hate waiting for more than 5 mins a turn.

You know the reason why its like this is because the more units that are built the more time it takes for the computer to move them AND trade routes are also a big issue...and on demi-god the AI does launch nukes to start wars.....it happened and I got shot to hell..

BTW El if you want to make a harder difficulty you know how to right? cuz you can just go into the editor and select dificulty levels and play around with the settings....also if you need to know what each thing means just look it up in the help

 

[vingrjoe]

AceNsh, you were just learning to use eating utensils and tie your shoes during the last years of the cold war. There was more to it than just MAD and Europe definately was a hotspot for a potential outbreak. Chances are, if there would have been a conflict, it would have been convetional, until a point where things went terribly wrong for one side, and then maybe the use of nuclear weapons would have been strongly considered.

 

[warmwaffles]

Naa my strategy to the game is NUKE THE sheet outa everything, desicrate cities, and bomb like no other.

Screw politics lol

 

[AceNsh]

Yeah actually I wasnt even born for most of the cold war. i was born during the period of detente and perestroika but it doesnt mean that i dont know much about the cold war. i will probably write my senior year thesis about it. (I am an international relations major at university of pennsylvania). Europe was a hotspot but almost all of the conflicts during the cold war were held outside the developed countries and both the superpowers used third world countries as proxies.

anyways seems like everyone here is missing the point. the scenario is built within the architecture of CIV III with all its limitations. The only good way to really do a proper simulation is by having human opponents battle it out against each other using classfied software run on supercomputers. thats what most war colleges and intelligence agencies do.

meanwhile since we are just civilians, we have to contend with civ III. i intend to develop a pretty complicated scenario for the Cold War as soon as CIV IV comes out.

enough of this debate anyways; i enjoyed talking about the scenario; good job. dont want to come across as nit picky but this scenario is far from capturing the true essence of the cold war.

 

[warmwaffles]

Yeah actually I wasnt even born for most of the cold war. i was born during the period of detente and perestroika but it doesnt mean that i dont know much about the cold war. i will probably write my senior year thesis about it. (I am an international relations major at university of pennsylvania). Europe was a hotspot but almost all of the conflicts during the cold war were held outside the developed countries and both the superpowers used third world countries as proxies.

anyways seems like everyone here is missing the point. the scenario is built within the architecture of CIV III with all its limitations. The only good way to really do a proper simulation is by having human opponents battle it out against each other using classfied software run on supercomputers. thats what most war colleges and intelligence agencies do.

meanwhile since we are just civilians, we have to contend with civ III. i intend to develop a pretty complicated scenario for the Cold War as soon as CIV IV comes out.

enough of this debate anyways; i enjoyed talking about the scenario; good job. dont want to come across as nit picky but this scenario is far from capturing the true essence of the cold war.

Buddy I hope yo can .xml edit because that is pretty tought sheet....I know because I am studying it and I plan to become a computer programmer...right now I am just playing with macromedia flash mx 2004 professional...which is pretty tight cuz you can design what you want and how you want like games...

 

[AceNsh]

ofcourse it will not be a one person project. a team will be needed to simulate the cold war scenario. the civ community is very dedicated and i am sure we'll be able to find computer programmers, history majors, play testers, etc etc.

smart people play this game and civ iv looks promising (with ideological wars etc etc.). i will contact you once i master the basic concepts of the game and am ready to begin modding.

 

[warmwaffles]

CIV IV is gonna take a while to start off because.....NO NEW UNITS...only stock units will be available for almost 3-4 months mostlikely

 

[MaxRiga]

to el justo

hay dude
how r u !?
i'm the guy who made micro scenario
i'm back on civ3 for a while, so want to ask, will u update with some new units ( which one really nesserely ) for the next 1.5 ( and i will be able to make 1.2 of my micro scenario ). i'd love to jump into the new game for2-3 days with some more units
thx

 

[El Justo]

to el justo

hay dude
how r u !?
i'm the guy who made micro scenario
i'm back on civ3 for a while, so want to ask, will u update with some new units ( which one really nesserely ) for the next 1.5 ( and i will be able to make 1.2 of my micro scenario ). i'd love to jump into the new game for2-3 days with some more units
thx

hey Max. long time!

TCW 1.5 is progressing. all of the new units are in (for the most part). i've put in most of the sea unit stats/flags, etc and now i'm onto the air units. here's a sampling of what's in store for the new 1950-59 air units (w/ help from JG99_Korab!)

1. Warsaw Pact
bombers
Tu-4 (reverse eng b29 - starting units only - preplaced – unbuildable) (added in)
Ilyushin Il-28 – can produce them from the start, ‘50 (added in)
Tu-16 – mid ‘50s (added in)
Tu-95 Big bomber-counter-part of B-52. Prop (already in) 
Tu-22 1962/63  (already in)

Fighters:
MiG-15(1949) Used very extensively (already in)
MiG-17(1952)-standard fighter in all Warsaw Pact countries in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s. MiG-17s were not available for the Korean War but the Vietnamese used them during the Vietnam War. (added in) 
MiG-19 (1955) (added in)  MiG21 (already in)

2. UK
Bombers
De Havilland Mosquito (post war – preplaced & unbuildable) (added in) 
Electric Canberra (May ’51 – built from start) (already in) 
Avro Vulcan (’60) (already in)

Fighters
Hawker Sea Fury* (postwar– preplaced & unbuildable) (added in)  Gloster Meteor (1950) (added in)  F6 Lightning (mid-late 50s) (already in)
* carrier-based

3. US
Bombers
B29 Superfortress (preplaced & unbuildable) (added in)  B-36 Peacemaker (build from start) (added in)  B52 Stratofortress (mid ‘50s) (already in)

Fighters
P-51D mustang (already in) (preplaced & unbuildable)  P-80 Shooting Star (1947) (preplaced & unbuildable) (added in)  F9F Panther (added in)
F-86 Sabre (1949) (already in)  F-100 Super Sabre (already in) 
F-104 Starfighter (already in)

Attack Aircraft
A-1 Skyraider (1946) (added in) 
A-4 Skyhawk (’56-57) (already in)

 

[warmwaffles]

k thats the aircraft now for the land units list lol

 

[JG99_Korab]

comin along...very nice

 

[warmwaffles]

Okay hours of boredom and nothing to do so I spent 15 minutes playing with muffins futuristic tanks and I got this beauty I call Jugernaught I

Ohh ya I suck at animating for Civ by the way but I am pretty good at flash lol

EL you gotta get that new version out...like out of Beta and into production lol...sorry well I need sleep it 1 AM here and I have been up all day

 

[MaxRiga]

TCW 1.5 is progressing. all of the new units are in (for the most part).

great to hear it
when will it be out?
please, don't remember to put planes for transport )) it's really nesserelly

i'd also advise ( i'd plyed 1.4 many times and i know what i'm saying )) - make choppers moving as units ( not planes ). this whould make it more sence ( for example for patrolling far lands )

any way, it's just advise

 

[warmwaffles]

If you make the helicopter as an air unit but not immobile it should go over coast, sea, and ocean no problem...and all other land...I remeber I had helicopters in one of my personal mods and the helicopter could cross the ocean easily but I gave each about 4 moves....but the problem is that when you want to move the helicopter across the atlantic which it should get a movement of about 8 and can only attack once..

Just an idea

 

[El Justo]

making helis land units is a little risky. plus, they'd have to be categorized as either 'land' or 'sea' which would present a certain amount of problems.

air transport of mech units isn't going to work...it's just too powerful imho. it would also eliminate the uses of naval transport.

however, i have given some thought to adding in a Chinook gunship/transport but it would'nt have a real high range or be able to cross large bodies of water.

as far as wehn the update will be ready...probably early july (a few weeks).

i won't release it until everything is ironed out. so far, so good though...i'm almost finished adding in the rest of the unit stats/flags/pre-reqs, etc. it's extremely tedious. after that, i add in the new improvements/wonders and their tech requirements and pre-place the starting units.

on a side-note: we've noticed that having 'acc production' disabled allows for much shorter turn times which is a very, very good thing.

 

[warmwaffles]

ahh I say make the Chinook like have a range of ohhh...15-20 squares or is that a lil to long cuz that would barely get you out of north america

 

[El Justo]

ahh I say make the Chinook like have a range of ohhh...15-20 squares or is that a lil to long cuz that would barely get you out of north america

i'm guessing that in RL, the chinook only has a range of several hundred miles tops. in terms of the TCW map, this is only like 5, 6 or 7. this hog definitely wouldn't be able to cross large bodies of water. however, to be able to allow it to carry more than the other transport helis is a possibility. i would envision it having a decent A/D value but not really high.

 

[MaxRiga]

well, mi26 is more powerfull then chinook, don't forget to add it too then, let's make the sides more balanced

but generally, about choppers -
see, if u will add air transports it's great ( for example to get troops from moscow on cuba in HC130 or AN124 etc ) but choppers more anti-ground weapon, let it be as unit ( not air ). for example, only chopper then can cross some land and attack or para foot units in the area where no airports or city exists! And it's more realistic then, i think. ( speacially for siberian russia, canadian north or deep jungles of brazilia or africa ).
any way, i will play your mod what ever u make in it