The Contrast Photojournals II: The Celts - new players welcome!

[CrazyG]

I'd say continue, but there needs to be a decision quickly!

 

[tu_79]

A full contrast game is 4 weeks. I prefer to keep playing with the same beta, but maybe I'd test newer releases once I'm done with my game part. I just need to keep the installer file for downgrading, so I can continue with the chosen savegame.

 

[CrazyG]

So the deadline is today, right? What save shall be used?

 

[Tzar Sasha]

So the deadline is today, right? What save shall be used?

Deadline according to front page is Friday at 23:00 GMT. We still have another day to wait in case anyone else is giving this a last minute go.

 

[tu_79]

If nothing else happens, I'd go with CrabH savegame. I like others too, but this one shows how to get out of such situation better. We're not trying to beat any record, just trying to improve our gameplay.
Though I'd say it is not trivial to achieve what crabs did. It took me several attempts and a bit of luck to replicate. (it's a bit easier when not worrying about founding early).

 

[CrazyG]

Deadline according to front page is Friday at 23:00 GMT. We still have another day to wait in case anyone else is giving this a last minute go.

That is a long time. Its already Friday where I live.

If nothing else happens, I'd go with CrabH savegame. I like others too, but this one shows how to get out of such situation better. We're not trying to beat any record, just trying to improve our gameplay.

What do you mean "get out of such situation"? Isolation? I think the main problem with isolation is gold (because no selling luxuries) and science, but none of the entries are struggling too much with either of those.

 

[CrabHelmet]

Sorry guys, I do get quite busy during the weeks sometimes and I can't guarantee being around for 23:00 GMT on the dot.

My thought is this: we have three very different broad models of how we approached this. We are very early in the game - only 80ish turns in. Because the models are so different, they're very difficult to compare. My proposal: each of us choses the save we liked the look of the most, and continue from there. That in itself is a learning process, since we get to see if our preconceptions about those positions are right.

I reckon it would be most interesting to pick one of my save, @CrzayG's save, and @76ers' save, and play from there.

Re: adopting new version, a new version typically comes out every 2 weeks and these things take 4 weeks to complete. If we dropped it every time a new version came out, we'd never end up finishing things.

 

[CrazyG]

I reckon it would be most interesting to pick one of my save, @CrzayG's save, and @76ers' save, and play from there.

I think @amateurgamer88 's save is the better option for an authority/mannan game because of the earlier religion (but do we want authority?). A huge threat for authority is falling behind in science making it difficult to fight other civs, especially at sea. Given the isolation, authority is going to really struggle with culture and science; religion is going to be a very important source of science and culture for those who went that path.

 

[76ers]

I definitely prefer the progress saves in this case. I wouldn't have gone authority if I hadn't had to defend my Capital with the pathfinder and it was still up in the air if I was on a peninsula or island. Definitely prefer progress for delayed conquest. Mine is also hurt by another civ founding when I moved my Prophet to capital.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I'll play whatever. Doesn't matter to me. Shoot, if you want I could give all the suggested ones a shot. Sure after the first one I might know more of the terrain, other civs etc. But with all the different types of starts, they'd still play differently. Just let me know which one, I have no preference.

 

[tu_79]

In that case, any Progress/Ogma will do.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Given how much we knew at the end of our saves and not after optimizing our games, it does seem like the Progress/Ogma seems more ideal. I'd go with that save.

 

[CrazyG]

There are two progress/Ogma games, mine and Crabhelmet. We are currently in very different situations actually.

Spoiler CrabHelmet's Advantages :

He has The Great Lighthouse.
He has not cleared all of the barbarian camps, so he can farm some faith still.

Disadvantage
His monopoly is a really long way from being connected.

Spoiler CrazyG's Advantages :

2 more workers and a lot of improved tiles
Stronger culture (mostly because I improved so many Dye already)
Religion 7 turns earlier
2 more cities

Disadvantages
No more barbarians to farm.

I think its really a question of how much you value that wonder. I don't see it being a big deal until frigates unlock, so I think my save is in abetter position. I could be biased though.

 

[CrabHelmet]

as I said, I think people can pick which one they want to continue. This whole thing is for learning, and finding out teh advantages/disadvantages of a particular situation through actual play is definitely a good way to learn. I think having two groups of us could be interesting.

 

[CrabHelmet]

@CrazyG - I can't find where you uploaded your save? Have I missed something?

 

[CrazyG]

@CrazyG - I can't find where you uploaded your save? Have I missed something?

I was going to continue my save after seeing your post earlier. Then I realized I didn't have it saved on my computer. So I downloaded the save I posted, and realized it's not the correct save. It appears I don't have a savegame file from that playthrough, only photos. I feel like a real idiot.

Anyways, I intend to play from yours when I get a chance.

 

[CrabHelmet]

...okay, well, we'll continue my save then! That resolved that problem.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I hope everyone else does better than me... I found this to be pretty down right awful.

Spoiler Part 2 :

Comparison Photojournal Series - The Celts

Continuing from CrabHelmet's save...

I remember reading in CrabHelmet's journal that the GP was born in Dulyn. He took the time to walk it over to Eidyn. I would have left it in Dulyn. I know that typically it is better in the capital but when the capital is landlocked with no trading partners but a city state, the holy city is better in a coastal city where when using trade routes it can apply the extra pressure. Oh, well, I'm too lazy to move it back...

Founder Belief:
We are isolated, may not actually be doing a lot of city capturing, that rules out the one direct warmonger belief. I always end up choosing the wrong thing here. We aren't built to pump out a lot of great people, doesn't mean we cannot go that way eventually. The two "safe bets" are Holy Law and Way of Transcendence, everyone unlocks policies and enters a new era. Not everyone can get WLTKD all the time. The beliefs that rely on converting citizens or cities are problematic with The Celts. The Celts do not generate pressure on other cities meaning that even if some were converted, the strength of the religion is very weak compared to others. Celtic cities are safe from passive conversion at the cost of being able to passively convert. So those types of beliefs are out as well.
Since I'll screw it up anyway... Lets go with Ceremonial Burial. The great people we do get can help out.

Follower Belief:
Inspiration, we are culture poor. It may get better with terrain improvements but no need to wait on that.

Turn 87
Bronze Working finished. Making a beeline to Theology, thus Writing is next.
One worker is building roads to connect the cities, one worker is finishing improving horse in Dulyn and the third is finishing up a farm before moving on to improve dyes.

Turn 94
Writing finished, Military Theory started.

Turn 104
Mathematics finished, Philosophy started.
Over the past several turns, founded Edinburgh on the tundra hill to the southwest of Eidyn. Built a library in Eidyn and working on another settler. My first trireme was killed off by barb ships, another is being finished up in Caerdydd

We are at least 5 techs behind the leader... wonders are gone before we even get the tech.

Turn 109
City state quest for Scrivener's Office. Slipping that into Eidyn.
Trying to explore with another trireme.

Turn 111
Philosophy finished, Drama and Poetry started.

Turn 117
Researching Masonry now. This game is way behind... there has already been at least 3 civs enter the Medieval era and one religion reformation. Still need 10% followers just to reform and the barbs are killing off my triremes, expanding religion beyond my own cities will be a PITA at this rate.

Turn 120
Researching Engineering

Turn 125
Researching Theology

Turn 126
Finished off Progress tree.

Turn 133
So St Basil is on Guilds rather than Theology. Researching Education followed by a beeline to Compass then Guilds.

I cannot find this secret passage out that only requires two triremes...

Turn 135
St Basil already built by someone else. Reformation will be hard. Trying to get the CS on board. Will have to found even more cities just to reach the right numbers...

Turn 141
Someone entered the next era and I got a spy. Still have not found how to get out... No one has found me either. Forbidden Palace has also been built, so there goes that.

Might as well stick the spy in Colombo and work on getting them as an ally. no point in having it defend my city.

Turn 147
Open Fealty tree

Turn 154
Babylon met me with a caravel...

Turn 155
Great Scientist born, will plant on a tundra tile near Edinburgh
Researching Chivalry now

Only 20 turns left in the 90 turns. No way will I be getting a reformation any time soon.

Turn 156
This is scary... Just got notice that Babylon is now the vassal of someone else. If Babylon is so much better off than me and they are someone's vassal... I'm in trouble.

Turn 162
Nobility policy
Babylon has a pikeman in the water at my border. I hope they aren't planning to attack... So defenseless...

Turn 164
Babylon founded a flipping city. Took the iron that I had not yet expanded to. *sigh* Use someone else's save this one is toast already.

Turn 165
Babylon has met everyone and world congress will start. I do not get to propose anything. Only England has worse score than I do.

With Compass complete, I'm teching straight to Gunpowder. I have to get past the reliance on iron so that I can take this babylonian city.

Turn 175
Hit the 90 turn mark. No religion enhancer, no reformation, dead last in just about everything. Siam has two vassals, Babylon and England.

I think I finally found that spot that CrabHelmet talked about where it required two triremes to cross. Apparently, you can break the rules and enter an ocean tile manually that you cannot currently see. That would expose the coast tile allowing a second trireme to cross. A cheap trick and one that the AI cannot use. I consider that an exploit.

Spoiler Turn 175 picture :

Thoughts
No idea how to improve it. Maybe spam more cities? This is just an awful spot to be in.

 

[CrabHelmet]

For those mildly interested, the Celtic city order is:

Edinburgh
Dublin
Cardiff
Truro
Nantes
Douglas
Glasgow
Cork
Aberystwyth
Penzance

If you de-Anglicize them and return them to using the root words, but using the Welsh version (since there are several Celtic languages, but I'm Welsh, so yeah...), you get:

Eidyn
Dulyn
Caerdydd
Trywru
Ynant
Duglas
Glasgau
Corsgau
Aberystwyth
Pensants

Just if you want clean city names.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Well...that was interesting.

Spoiler Part 2 :

Continuing from CrabHelmet's save

The combination of not being used to standard speed and lack of optimization definitely mess me up. I'll just summarize what I got since it's pretty lack luster.

I originally tried to get Civil Service as soon as possible to try to get the Forbidden Palace but it was gone before I got the tech. I still went for Theology and Education as those two can help me in terms of universities, Oxford and Grand Temple. By Turn 175, I'm in Medieval Age with only Steel, Machinery and Civil Service still unresearched.

For religion, I took Theocratic Rule as my Founder. I know WLTKD isn't very frequent but at least it's within our control. I'm pretty sure there's a better alternative but I feel like our options are quite limited given our isolated start. For follower, I picked Synagogue to give our cities a bit more production. I was considering Inspiration but I don't know how good it is in this case as I struggle to find too many cities. After enhancing, I got Order and Zealotry as I got to enhance my religion very late and there aren't many good options left. I thought that, at this point, we might need conquests to snowball in any way for the late game.

I went Fealty as my second policy tree since it makes the most sense to me.

Overall, I neglected a lot of military production and even walls to built up infrastructures. I don't know if this will pay off but time will tell. Near the end, I decided to start shifting into military production and get walls, castles and some units at the very least.

I did use the two triremes to meet a few other civs earlier. I think played a huge role to getting me to where I'm at. Of course, it's very possible other players just outperform me by a lot as I'm just too inexperienced.

There's a potential city spot south of the capital that I eventually think I should grab. I plan on grabbing it with a pioneer instead of a settler.

My stats:

52 people, 5 cities, 1 wonder (Great Lighthouse), 28 techs, 6 Progress, 2 Fealty.
Yields: +146 , +146 , +93, 23 , 201(+131), (+8.1, +50.3 , +37 )
Military: (6/11), 3 Pictish Warriors, 1 Explorer, 2 Triereme

Note: My values are higher due to 4 of my cities enjoying WLTKD at this moment. Therefore, the values should go down a fair bit. I think I'm getting 13 more and 15 more so subtracting those from my stats above should give you a more accurate picture.

Pantheon: Mannanan, Son of the Sea (+3,+3 and +4 in coastal cities. +2 Great Admiral Points from Ceilidh Hall).
Religion Founder: Theocratic Rule
Religion Follower: Synagogues
Religion Follower: Orders
Religion Enhancer: Zealotry

I'm sorry but I'm too lazy to list all the cities and their buildings so I'll only do the capital.

Eidyn (11)
- Writer's Guild
- Ceilidh Hall
- Library
- University
- Customs House
- Market
- Scrivener's Office
- Amphitheater
- Synagogue
- Temple
- Grand Temple
- National Monument
- Palace
- School of Philosophy
- Circus Maximus
- Arena
- Council
- Granary
- Herbalist
- Monument
- Shrine
- Stone Works
- Well