The Counterstrike

[AutomatedTeller]

I'd prefer guerillas to rifles, unless we have rubber and can build infantry. I wouldn't be averse to a landing force of 11 or 7 guerillas and a settler, for instance - that will be tough to kill unless they have a bunch of cavs there.

Can we investiage cities in multi player? I guess I was wondering if we could get our SABER allies to investigate for us to see what is there.

 

[Paul#42]

I'd prefer guerillas to rifles, unless we have rubber and can build infantry. I wouldn't be averse to a landing force of 11 or 7 guerillas and a settler, for instance - that will be tough to kill unless they have a bunch of cavs there.

Me, too. But if a town does 60spt it breaks my heart to let it build 90 shield units...

Can we investiage cities in multi player? I guess I was wondering if we could get our SABER allies to investigate for us to see what is there.

We can - but only if an embassy is established. And both parties are at peace with each other.
And SABER is still at war with BABE and I doubt they have an embassy.
Maybe we could ask FREE (Although they also might lack the diplomatic precondition)?

 

[General_W]

Assuming we get a deal with Saber - we will have Rubber.
The treaty mandates that they share it with us for a turn here and there to allow us to start Infantry builds.

So shouldn't we just plan on using Infantry?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Rifles are 80 shields, as well.

Can we move around citizens to give another city more shields?

 

[Paul#42]

Assuming we get a deal with Saber - we will have Rubber.
The treaty mandates that they share it with us for a turn here and there to allow us to start Infantry builds.

So shouldn't we just plan on using Infantry?

No difference between guerillas and Infantry in production effort. If we get rubber, we can build inf. And upgrade our rifles and muskets.

Rifles are 80 shields, as well.

What to do with 60 shields in a inland town?
Actually it's 70spt with a court. Knights, anyone?
If we have bored workers, we can do some forestry action to get 80spt.
Wait, we will get 90spt easily when the cathedral is built and we work all tiles.

edit: Wait - if we do 90spt in TC and TT easily - maybe we can also get magic 100spt for 1-turn-bombers?

Can we move around citizens to give another city more shields?

Just at the expense of some beakers and food. The Treasury and The Chamber should use all tiles they have (minus the one they share - it falls to The Treasury to gain food balance).

 

[Paul#42]

The mock up verifies that bombers have a range of 10 tiles.

What it also reveals is that bombers miss their target quite often
I'd love to have a scenario with ten vet pikes on a mountain, ten pikes on the jungle and 100 bombers to test the probabilities...

Maybe I'll also spend my first time with the editor today. Is it contained in the C3C package?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Knights aren't a bad thing to build - they become cavalry for a cheap upgrade once we get mil trad. Question is, do we want cavs when we'll have tanks reasonably soon?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

bombardment gets terrain bonuses.

 

[Paul#42]

Knights aren't a bad thing to build - they become cavalry for a cheap upgrade once we get mil trad. Question is, do we want cavs when we'll have tanks reasonably soon?

Yes, because of their greater range. But not too many. Up to 20 would be okay I guess.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

actually, a set of knights might be good anyway, depending on what we run into up on SCI - if the defenders aren't rifles or infantry, knights might be a good way soften up defenders so we lose fewer infantry.

 

[Paul#42]

But this is only theoretical, I guess we won't get chivalry anywhere, will we?

 

[donsig]

I don't think we have chivalry so how would we build knights?

One turn bombers sound very nice. Tanks are also 100 shields. Hope we can get there!

If we can get that 60spt town up to 80 lets make rifles. If not, can we lower the production to 45spt to make two turn guerrillas? Would we gain beakers by hiring scientists instead of working tiles that wasted shields?

@ Paul - I have a Civ3ConquestsEdit.exe file in my Conquests folder and that's the what I used to edit Aigburth's bic file.

 

[Paul#42]

If we can get that 60spt town up to 80 lets make rifles. If not, can we lower the production to 45spt to make two turn guerrillas? Would we gain beakers by hiring scientists instead of working tiles that wasted shields?

No. Even on 2-commerce-tiles we'll get 6bpt in TC and TT, so that's no match to the 3bpt by a scientist. Too bad for the unnecessary high polution risk. We better do 108spt so we can live with occasionally polluted tiles

@ Paul - I have a Civ3ConquestsEdit.exe file in my Conquests folder and that's the what I used to edit Aigburth's bic file.

I could add some pikes and bombers but when I figured out how to get that map into C3C, they Iro pikes did not show up...
Then I lost interest and will rather sacrifice a chicken to the RNG gods...

 

[donsig]

Here's a mock up save with 100 regular bombers in The Whale Pond and 10 regular pikes each on a mountain, the jungle (rubber) and in Oka. (Don't know how to get veteran units.) Have fun.

BTW, the first two bombers i sent against the mountain stack both killed their targets.

 

[Paul#42]

Nice. Thank you.

Every single attack hit the target.

Why did I not get a single hit point off those warriors in BABEcolony in the mock_up scenario?

 

[donsig]

prospected time table
(to be reviewed and fixed after we got refining from SABER)
#185 Steel (5 x 840bpt),
#190 Combustion (5 x 960bp),
#195 Flight (5 x 1080bpt). Switch prebuilds to bombers,
#196 position bombers,
#197 strike.

#197 we also need some frigates and loaded transports / galleons in range of SCI's southern tip.

Do you think we can make this timetable? Getting steel on turn 185 and combustion on turn 190 is certainly doable. I don't see us doing flight in 5 turns though since I doubt we'll have enough gold to cover the deficit. Maybe I figured something wrong?

EDIT: I'm not sure about that bomber practice run. Maybe DEBUG changes the odds in our favor? This editor stuff is all new to me.

 

[donsig]

I went back to the mock up and made some changes:

• Unchecked the debug box.
• Added stacks of five muskets to a couple SCI mountains.
• Added the rest of our coastal cities.
• Placed a fighter in each city.

The fighters are for ABEWS (Air Based Early Warning System) simulation. Looks like we'd need about 17 fighters. Not sure how many naval units we'd need to cover the same area.
The bomber simulation without debug is interesting. Can't bomb units unless we can see them! With no ships near SCI I could only bomb Oka. Other than that bombers are still very good at hitting pikes and muskets. Never seem to miss though which seems strange. Don't always kill them though so we'd need at least twice as many bombers as the stack we're trying to destroy in order to ensure opening a landing spot.

Mock up save attached.

 

[General_W]

Can't bomb units unless we can see them!

I can confirm that this is how it works in Multiplayer.

You need to do a fighter recon or else have a boat nearby.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

so that's good to know. Actually, we should bombard from frigates before bombing anyway, cause a frigate can't kill a unit and if they take a hp or two off, that will make it just that much easier.

 

[donsig]

As of turn 182 we can support 69 units without cost. Paul estimated we need a dozen native workers to supplement our 25 foreign workers to ensure a clean countryside. I estimate 17 units for our EWS (preferably fighters). That leaves 40 units for other purposes.

We have twenty cities that could draft giving us an instant blocking force of that size. We currently have 8 ancient cav, 13 horses, 2 muskets and 2 rifles on blockade duty (25 units). We need an estimate of the size of blockading forces needed in excess of what can be drafted. (Will we still use a blocking force once our opponents have marines?) We also need to decide on what garrison size we'll have in our one tile islands. These blockading and garrison forces will eat into our 40 unit margin.

We'll need bombers, landing units and ships to transport them. Any estimates of how many of each? What units should we be keeping and which should we disband? What form will our modern navy take and how many units will it comprise? Things to think about if we plan to keep our unit support costs to a minimum.