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The Crusades (European Middle Ages)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Scenarios' started by HolyOne, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    Debrecen, Hungary
    The maps work only under 0.33, yet!

    The Crusades
    The scenario is set in the Middle East during the time of the Crusades. The time period is 1100-1300 AD at Marathon speed, which means 1 year per turn.

    Playable civs:
    Kingdom of Jerusalem (Baldwin I of Boulogne)
    Byzantiine Empire (Basil II)
    Egypt (Saladin)
    Rum Sultanate (Alp Arslan)
    Tatar Khaganate (Timur Lenk)

    Update: added city list to Kingdom of Jerusalem, included modpath (starts correctly by double-clicking on it)

    I used this map:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=160228

    The Crusades (Large)
    v0.5 compatible version available!
    Larger version of the previous scenario. 1100-1453 AD (1year/turn)
    Map is originally made by Dionysius, and is included in TAM.

    Added:
    Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia (Thoros I)
    Kingdom of Georgia (David the Builder)

    Update: Cilicia, Georgia now Orthodox. Included city list to Cilicia, Georgia and Kingdom of Jerusalem. Added/removed few units. Reveal tiles and connection of civs are set with care (and correctly, I hope)


    The Baltic Crusades
    Under construction :badcomp:
    :D

    ____________
    Screenshots in post #11 !

    You will need the awesome mod of hr_oskar, for all scenarios.
    Found here:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=173439

    Feel free to share your opinions or suggestions!
    I hope you will like it!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    Nice work HolyOne, but shouldn't you have the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia in their, do a Wiki search as they were important during the Crusades by letting the Crusaders pass.
     
  3. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    Of course they were important! I also miss the Kingdom of Georgia, another important christian kingdom, but that part of the map is just way too crowded. Perhaps on a bigger one. I saw nice Middle East maps elsewhere, so maybe I will use one of them. But if anybody knows one, link it here, pls!
     
  4. ohcrapitsnico

    ohcrapitsnico Chieftain

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    Wasn't Salah al-din the king of the abbasids not just egypt? Secondly, are you planning for this just to be a scenario or like a mod?
     
  5. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    1. Yes he was, but it's easier to have only one civ and leader for the different time period. Even in this short(?) 200 years there was a different Egypt when the Crusaders arrived in 1097-99, another one that is Saladin's and when the mameluks took over is yet another story. Saladin is chosen because he is a rather emblematic figure of the Crusades (along with Richard I). But if you ask his territorial rule, in the scenario Egypt starts with the Nile valley and Mesopotamia (Baghdad, Damascus) under her rule. And also Mecca as it is the Islam holy city.

    2. I'm already using a mod (see title and link in first post). It's development is totally independent from me (other than suggestions to the author:) ). I'm only planning to make it on a bigger map, but am still looking for the right one.
     
  6. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    I thought Saladin was ruler of the Ayyubid Sultanate, not the Abbasid Caliphate?
     
  7. griff09

    griff09 Chieftain

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    do you know if this is compatible with the 0.33 update. if it is, do you why it ends the game before I've taken a turn? sorry, i can't figure it out.
     
  8. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    I made it with 0.33, so it should be compatible.
     
  9. griff09

    griff09 Chieftain

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    thanks, i'll keep trying, i'm sure i just did something stupid, i always extract something incorrectly
     
  10. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    I started working on a larger map. All, but the turkish and tatar cities are placed. I will still have a lot of work with it (perhaps in the weekend), but what I can tell is that it will probably fall between the 1100-1453 period (with 1 year/turn), due to the increased size. I also included the armenians of cilicia and the georgians. Do you have any more suggestions, because there is plenty of room :)

    After this I also want to do a Baltic Crusades map. I found only one usable map, but it goes too far to the north and not enough far to the south. I need it to go to the heigths of Helsinki and Warsaw. If anyone could change this for me, or tell me how to change the size of an existing map, I would be very grateful! Also if anyone knows of a better map, please let me know!
    Anyway, I include the map here. Sorry, but I cannot give any credits. I found it on a german forum but I was not able to find it a second time.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    I finished and uploaded the large scenario, check it out!
    I try and upload two screenshots from both scenarios. [edit: Yesss, I made it! :D]
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    Nice work on the new map Holyone.:goodjob: But shouldn't Lesser Armenia and Georgia be Orthodox? They surely were not Catholic.:lol:
     
  13. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    Thanks! :)
    I too thought about that, but there are sooo many branches of christianity especially that part of the world. Georgia for example is the first christian country, that time there was no orthodox or chatolic christianity. Christianity in Syria, even today, is neither, but (you are right) more close to orthodoxy. The patriarch of Antioch and Alexandria had great dogmatic debate with the Patriarch of Constantinople, and they practically broke up.
    I did choose Chatolicism because of the diplomatic relation bonus, but I can still change one of them (or both), if it suits you better ;)
     
  14. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    Georgia was definitely not the first Christian nation of the world. That title belongs to Armenia. 301 AD if I am not mistaken. King Drtad adopted Christianity after St. Gregory cured him of a didease just by touching his forehead.
     
  15. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    Well... ok. But that does not change the fact that there were no catholicism/orthodoxy that time.
     
  16. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    I don't think that there were Catholics in Armenia or Georgia at that time. I cannot speak for Georgia, but Cilicia was a very religious and Orthodox state. In an attempt to make an alliance with the prince of Antioch, the Armenian queen Isabella married the prince of Antioch, Phillip. Phillip attempted to make Cilicia a Catholic nation, but the people grew disgruntled and he was quickly overthrown. Now in 2006 I think there are many Christian groups there, mainly in Armenia, trying to convert them from Armenian Orthodox, but I don't think that there was a major Catholic influence during the Middle Ages. At least not one I have heard about.

    And one more thing. I saw your post at the top saying about Paris and other cities being founded for other nations. I think that you can use worldbuilder to make an alternate city list. I think an example of that is the 100 AD scenario.
     
  17. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    I played the Large Crusades scenario a bit and it is in general very well done. I made Georgia and Cilicia Orthodox myself, so that wasn't a problem. I noticed a very major thing though, Rum is wayyyy overpowered. I was playing as Cilicia, and Arslan immediatly declared war on me and horse archer units (which are way overpowered themselves were streaming across my borders at an alarming rate. I also noticed that the map has not been revealed to all the civs. Since that part of the world was known to the civs present in the scenario, the map should be revealed. And why don't all the civs have contact? But, other than that, a very nice scenario Holyone.:goodjob:
     
  18. HolyOne

    HolyOne Chieftain

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    As I said, I too considered what religion they should be. As far as I know there were great dogmatic clashes in the early Middle Ages with the centers of Syria, Georgia and Alexandria. They were rebelling against the dogmatic ways of Constantinople, although tthey bellonged to the same empire that time. Later Constantinople lost even the political control over these territories. So for these reasons I thought that they belong to Rome as much as to Constantinople (which is the orthodox Holy City) and I took the easier part of it: making them chatolic (mainly) for the diplomatic relations bonus it gives. But I could certainly change them to orthodox, if that is your wish.

    I know how I can edit city lists in the civInfos xml (I done it once for an EE3 map), but in the Worldbuilder?? I would be glad if you could enlighten me about this. I'm really curious, as WB can't even place cities. I have to place the settlers and found the cities manually for every civ.

    They should harass the Byzantines. I even set them to start at war with each other (oops, I wonder if you checked the update). As in my test (Outremer) they declared war on me and swarmed and plundered Syria and Edessa. They came also across fromm Cilicia as they probably had open borders.

    I will check this reveal thing, as it wasn't a priority, but I don't think every civ should see every corner of the map. The Crusaders don't have to see beyond Damascus or deep into Egypt, although they should see at least the way they came through Asia Minor :p I didn't set that yet, as it looks cool the way it is now (check the screenshot :D ) So, I will work on that too.

    I didn't want that, especially for the mongolians. They just came, killed and only than asked questions. They also start with a (hopefully great enough) diplomatic relations penalty with all the other civs. As for the others... I have to set the contact lines in notepad. The civs are indicated with numbers and the line have to be written to both sides. That many numbers make me feel dizzy, so there could be confusion :D In the case of Georgia, I did not want them to have connection with for example the Egyptians. They are too far away from each other to stay in touch. A stupid AI Saladin could also declare war on them, instead of merrying the Crusaders :p

    Thank you for the replies!!:)
     
  19. Ceritoglu

    Ceritoglu Janissary

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    I'll download this some time in the week and give it a go - it looks like a most promising Scenario. I look forward to giving some feedback.
     
  20. Drtad

    Drtad It Stinks!!!

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    I think that civs like the Byzantines and Armenia should know what the whole map looks like as they once had control of a greater part of it. Georgia should have contact with at least Armenia, Turkey and Byzantium. It would be very historically accurate if you were to change Georgia and Armenia to Orthodoxy. As for the city list in Worldbuilder, you should look in the 1000 AD scenario that comes with the game. It has city lists in the Worldbuilder file, which overrides the city list in Civinfos. You should be able to figure it out from there.
     

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